LW Patrik Laine - Tappara, Liiga (2016, 2nd, WPG) XII

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

What's it say about Ehlers when he couldn't even crack the weakest team at the tourney? Or the fact Trouba looks to be the 7th D.

They all suck man, our teams are doomed. Nylander couldn't crack the forward roster of Sweden over career third liners like Kruger. Gardiner couldn't make it over JJ, we're never getting out of the basement bro.

 

[Red Piller]

Well you see when you get told he is the 2nd coming and the greatest thing ever, that he is better than the projected #1 pick, is the next Ovi (read through the old threads and see if this is not being his hype) when he looks bad on NHL ice people will take notice.

Marner is the next Patrick Kane.

 

[4thline]

I don't know what all the fuss about, anyone that watched the WHC rather than frothing at the mouth about his round robin statline should have expected did this. Kid's an incredibly impressive 18 year old that is not out of place on the international stage- which speaks volumes for his skill level and potential.

And before the attack comes:
I think Laine is a top 6 winger this year
I don't think he ever scores less than 20 goals in a fullish season
I think he is pretty much a lock to be a perennial 30 goal scorer, probably break 40 multiple times and possibly flirt with 50.

 

[93LEAFS]

Do you agree with LeafsRockForBabcock that you can make a 100% projection of Laines future after 2 games against all star team?

Team Europe definitely could use Ehlers and Trouba shouldn't be the #7D, but that's a bit off topic.

No, but I also don't see what bashing Marner has anything to do with the Laine thread, and it is a repeated tactic by some Jets fans. Which is why I brought up Ehlers not being put on the weakest team (except maybe the Czech's at the tourny). I also don't see who Trouba should play over.

I've already made my point on Laine at this tournament/exhibition games clear. He needs to work on his movement and reads to find space, on small ice. Teams are cutting off that passing lane, he relies on to get his shot, making it very difficult for him. Part of the reason Brett Hull and Ovi have had such success is they have usually been surrounded by elite passers/playmakers who create these lanes (Oates, Backstrom and now Kuztetsov). I know Ovi scored a bunch before he had Backstrom (or an elite playmaker) but his game was much more explosive and off the rush at that point, his modern PP destruction has been fueled by having great passers on the PP with him (add Green previously to this list) or elite-shooters on the opposite side to take advantage (Semin and Green). No defense in the NHL has close to the overall mobility of Sweden, but teams will roll coverages to cut off that Laine, which then pushes Laine back to the side boards and forced to dish it off or penetrate the defense himself. Finland to get the best out of Laine, need to one diagram their powerplay better, and two create movement by the other players to open that passing lane for Laine. While Sweden's D is obviously elite, I don't think what teams are doing to them or Finland is un-doable by lesser defenseman with proper coaching and systems.The positive is, that this will also create holes on the other-side for a player to exploit. Long-term I think Laine is a smart enough player to get by, there are obvious reasons he is held in high-regard. I've said many times I would of easily taken Laine at two, and he's clearly at a minimum the 2nd best drafted prospect in the world.

 

[Whileee]

Do you agree with LeafsRockForBabcock that you can make a 100% projection of Laines future after 2 games against all star team?

Team Europe definitely could use Ehlers and Trouba shouldn't be the #7D, but that's a bit off topic.

Well, based on their performances so far I'd say that Bellemare is better than Matthews, too. It's all such nonsense. It's like people have actually forgotten how to watch and understand a hockey game over the summer. I blame it on the Blue Jays.

 

[Hagged]

This is not the only thing I am basing it on, but actually yes. I saw from just watching the highlight package the potential flaw, which drew me to watch the player closely. So far I have not seen anything to change my opinion.

If you honestly don't remember that he scores from the outside pp in a way that is not realistic to modern NHL competition, watch the highlights. You can see for yourself that the goals he scored are from the outside, where no one can pressure him, and a lot of the time would be on someone's lap in the third row of an NHL rink.

Go watch them..... Count the amount of goals he scores from outside, and how close any player is. Ask yourself. Do you think this is likely in the NHL? It hasn't been working out so far.....

You can wipe the tears from your eyes. Leafs still managed to draft one of the best prospects eligible in the 2016 draft.

Laine is 4th on the team in CF%, above his linemates. He has looked better than Jokinen, who is coming off of a 60 point season. Laine has already shown ability to translate his playmaking, being one of the best passers on team Finland, unfortunately Finland hasn't been able to convert.

Points will come. In the NHL even more so, since this is a best on best tournament, and it is unlikely he will face similar quality of competition in the NHL. On top of that, he is coming off an injury and still likely just finding his game on the NA ice.

 

[Red Piller]

This is not the only thing I am basing it on, but actually yes. I saw from just watching the highlight package the potential flaw, which drew me to watch the player closely. So far I have not seen anything to change my opinion.

If you honestly don't remember that he scores from the outside pp in a way that is not realistic to modern NHL competition, watch the highlights. You can see for yourself that the goals he scored are from the outside, where no one can pressure him, and a lot of the time would be on someone's lap in the third row of an NHL rink.

Go watch them..... Count the amount of goals he scores from outside, and how close any player is. Ask yourself. Do you think this is likely in the NHL? It hasn't been working out so far.....

That's all great but it takes time to develop. Maybe you don't get the concept, but making the jump to this level is insanely difficult. Especially for a kid who has never done it before. I guess the scouts got it wrong.

I don't know why you feel the need to come down on the kid in here? If anything you should be stoked as a fan about being able to watch someone like this. He will become a great player in this league. "He hasn't done it so far....." He just got drafted and hasn't played a single game in the NHL yet. Just brutal analysis by you, you should be embarrassed.

 

[cotopaxi]

This is not the only thing I am basing it on, but actually yes. I saw from just watching the highlight package the potential flaw, which drew me to watch the player closely. So far I have not seen anything to change my opinion.

If you honestly don't remember that he scores from the outside pp in a way that is not realistic to modern NHL competition, watch the highlights. You can see for yourself that the goals he scored are from the outside, where no one can pressure him, and a lot of the time would be on someone's lap in the third row of an NHL rink.

Go watch them..... Count the amount of goals he scores from outside, and how close any player is. Ask yourself. Do you think this is likely in the NHL? It hasn't been working out so far.....

I'm not sure what you're about, most of the one timer goals or wrist shots he scores with are from the top of the circle, exactly the same position where Ovi scores in NHL. There were maybe 2 or 3 goals that he scored from the far side of the circle, is this the third row you're speaking of?

 

[Whileee]

I don't know what all the fuss about, anyone that watched the WHC rather than frothing at the mouth about his round robin statline should have expected did this. Kid's an incredibly impressive 18 year old that is not out of place on the international stage- which speaks volumes for his skill level and potential.

And before the attack comes:
I think Laine is a top 6 winger this year
I don't think he ever scores less than 20 goals in a fullish season
I think he is pretty much a lock to be a perennial 30 goal scorer, probably break 40 multiple times and possibly flirt with 50.

Wait, are you sure you haven't wandered into the wrong thread? Go back and look at the box scores for the two exhibition games and come back with some better analysis, will ya.

 

[93LEAFS]

Do you agree with LeafsRockForBabcock that you can make a 100% projection of Laines future after 2 games against all star team?

Team Europe definitely could use Ehlers and Trouba shouldn't be the #7D, but that's a bit off topic.

Delete, double post basically. Internet acting up.

 

[Whileee]

No, but I also don't see what bashing Marner has anything to do with the Laine thread, and it is a repeated tactic by some Jets fans. Which is why I brought up Ehlers not being put on the weakest team (except maybe the Czech's at the tourny). I also don't see who Trouba should play over.

I've already made my point on Laine at this tournament/exhibition games clear. He needs to work on his movement and reads to find space, on small ice. Teams are cutting off that passing lane, he relies on to get his shot, making it very difficult for him. Part of the reason Brett Hull and Ovi have had such success is they have usually been surrounded by elite passers/playmakers who create these lanes (Oates, Backstrom and now Kuztetsov). I know Ovi scored a bunch before he had Backstrom (or an elite playmaker) but his game was much more explosive and off the rush at that point, his modern PP destruction has been fueled by having great passers on the PP with him (add Green previously to this list) or elite-shooters on the opposite side to take advantage (Semin and Green). No defense in the NHL has close to the overall mobility of Sweden, but teams will roll coverages to cut off that Laine, which then pushes Laine back to the side boards and forced to dish it off or penetrate the defense himself. Finland to get the best out of Laine, need to one diagram their powerplay better, and two create movement by the other players to open that passing lane for Laine. While Sweden's D is obviously elite, I don't think what teams are doing to them or Finland is un-doable by lesser defenseman with proper coaching and systems.The positive is, that this will also create holes on the other-side for a player to exploit. Long-term I think Laine is a smart enough player to get by, there are obvious reasons he is held in high-regard. I've said many times I would of easily taken Laine at two, and he's clearly at a minimum the 2nd best drafted prospect in the world.

Drawing an analogy to how you think Marner would have performed at this level as an 18 year old isn't irrelevant, it's some much needed context for some fans who have forgotten how challenging it is for such a young prospect to perform at this level. Marner is a fantastic talent, but even he would struggle against a D like Sweden's. Some people need to gain a bit of perspective on what they are actually watching.

 

[Legion34]

I'm not sure what you're about, most of the one timer goals or wrist shots he scores with are from the top of the circle, exactly the same position where Ovi scores in NHL. There were maybe 2 or 3 goals that he scored from the far side of the circle, is this the third row you're speaking of?

I had edited the third row as it was a little too far. Many of his WHC goals were of that nature, but its not really fair. To be fair. I think that he scores a lot of goals with extra time and space that others create for him. Players like matthews, crosby sedins etc, create space for themselves and others......

But yes, I agree I was being a little unfair there.

 

[93LEAFS]

Drawing an analogy to how you think Marner would have performed at this level as an 18 year old isn't irrelevant, it's some much needed context for some fans who have forgotten how challenging it is for such a young prospect to perform at this level. Marner is a fantastic talent, but even he would struggle against a D like Sweden's. Some people need to gain a bit of perspective on what they are actually watching.

That is not what that poster was doing at all. He just bashed him for not being there.

 

[Fishy]

I don't think it is an opinion that he scores the vast majority of his goals in extra time and space on pp? Way out wide with no forward challenging him?

All of his goals are
On YouTube. That's not an opinion.
You think he has the skating? Barkov plays nothing like him. not all players can translate their games equally. I think laine uses
The specific size of ice to his advantage. That could mean he is just that smart and figured out a
Way to game the system.

The kid has a game that is specifically tailored
To big ice. Half of his goals
Would be from the second
Row of an nhl rink. It is up to him to translate it.

In terms of point distribution last year in Liiga, 57.6% of Laine's points were 5 on 5 (i.e. only 42.4% of his points came on the powerplay).

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

That is not what that poster was doing at all. He just bashed him for not being there.

I was pointing out the fact that people have very high hopes for Marner and yet he wasn't on the team. That doesn't make him a bad prospect, just as Laine taking time to adapt to the small ice (while playing against one of the top 2 defenses in the world) doesn't make him a bad prospect.

I was being very tongue and cheek describing Marner, he obviously doesn't suck and is a tremendous prospect. It's just some perspective that a lot of people are lacking.

 

[kelsier]

No I dont think it matters. The fact that people refuse to acknowledge that he was officially measured and continue to make up ridiculous excuses despite empirical evidence to the contrary is what matters. This entire thread in all of its many iterations has had a select few people who make ridiculous claims over and over again.

The kid has done great in time and space and relies often on people to get him the puck in space (because you cant go out that far) on wide ice and pp to score the majority of his points. Not a single poster has been able to suggest how he will adjust to less time and space other than " he will".......

I am not exactly a great hockey mind, but an amateur can see that might not work in north america...... I have asked people to see how he might improve, and not a single person has provided potential strategies......
\

He was officially measured at the combine which was held in May-June and we are going on at September. There's this thing called height growth which I'm sure you've heard about as well as being able to count the ~3 months time period in between the months. If he's reported at 6"5 then it would be sort of logical to believe he's undergone some growing which isn't that rare for a kid who's 18. Now if you have another reliable source of his current height I'm all ears.

Wow, Laine failed on a one-on-one on a practise game, didn't have the much needed extra space and has now reached a dead end?
That just sounds ridiculous. I'm not about to bother start lecturing you about development and I do get that you might not be exactly a great hockey mind either.

Now what comes to the World Cup itself, lets see who outscores who and then move onto another round after (NHL). Tons of fun, I promise!

 

[4thline]

Wait, are you sure you haven't wandered into the wrong thread? Go back and look at the box scores for the two exhibition games and come back with some better analysis, will ya.

Lol the funny thing is I said the same things during the WHC, pointing out that maybe his statistical demolition of Sub-liiga teams on big ice wasn't as indicative as looking at how he actually looked against the quality teams that took away time and space and got laughed off and told to look at the scoring leaderboard.

 

[93LEAFS]

In terms of point distribution last year in Liiga, 57.6% of Laine's points were 5 on 5 (i.e. only 42.4% of his points came on the powerplay).

Pretty sure if I remember correctly only 13 of his goals came at ES in 64 games in the FEL. I have no idea how many were scored with the extra attacker (I know atleast one playoff goal was) or in 4 on 4 type situations. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but his numbers were more PP dependent than most players.

 

[TheGroceryStick]

They all suck man, our teams are doomed. Nylander couldn't crack the forward roster of Sweden over career third liners like Kruger. Gardiner couldn't make it over JJ, we're never getting out of the basement bro.

I'm glad you are rolling with the sarcasm!

Honestly though, Love these teams.....

 

[cotopaxi]

I had edited the third row as it was a little too far. Many of his WHC goals were of that nature, but its not really fair. To be fair. I think that he scores a lot of goals with extra time and space that others create for him. Players like matthews, crosby sedins etc, create space for themselves and others......

But yes, I agree I was being a little unfair there.

Alright. To answer your earlier question about how can Laine adjust to NHL I do feel that he probably has to and should approach the game in a similar fashion as Ovechkin, and that is to shoot from everywhere. And that's not a bad thing with the shot he has. Another thing though is can he get his S/G to maybe not similar numbers as Ovi, but very high regardless.

 

[Legion34]

In terms of point distribution last year in Liiga, 57.6% of Laine's points were 5 on 5 (i.e. only 42.4% of his points came on the powerplay).

i think considering about what 80 percent of the game is 5 on 5...
That's not ideal

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

i think considering about what 80 percent of the game is 5 on 5...
That's not ideal

Don't keep me in suspense. What is an "acceptable" % of points to come on the power play?

 

[Legion34]

He was officially measured at the combine which was held in May-June and we are going on at September. There's this thing called height growth which I'm sure you've heard about as well as being able to count the ~3 months time period in between the months. If he's reported at 6"5 then it would be sort of logical to believe he's undergone some growing which isn't that rare for a kid who's 18. Now if you have another reliable source of his current height I'm all ears.

Wow, Laine failed on a one-on-one on a practise game, didn't have the much needed extra space and has now reached a dead end?
That just sounds ridiculous. I'm not about to bother start lecturing you about development and I do get that you might not be exactly a great hockey mind either.

Now what comes to the World Cup itself, lets see who outscores who and then move onto another round after (NHL). Tons of fun, I promise!

Ummm actually I am 6 7 with a 6 8 brother. I am familiar with growth spurts.

The issue is that we were told he was almost 6 5 before the measurement. And when fans found out he wasn't even 6 4 in June. They posted ridiculousness about angles etc. They look at pictures that were taken right after combine (within weeks) and are saying he is almost 6 5.

That's the foolish part.

 

[ijuka]

This thread sure went down the drain.

I for one am fully confident that Laine will show us a better game tomorrow.

 

[Fishy]

Pretty sure if I remember correctly only 13 of his goals came at ES in 64 games in the FEL. I have no idea how many were scored with the extra attacker (I know atleast one playoff goal was) or in 4 on 4 type situations. There are a bunch of reasons for this, but his numbers were more PP dependent than most players.

He scored 27 goals in the FEL last year (including playoffs). So a little over half of his goals were on the pp. I, personally, would not say the "vast" amount of his goals were scored on the powerplay.

i think considering about what 80 percent of the game is 5 on 5...
That's not ideal

I am not sure, but because of his skills i bet he spent more of than his fair share of his time on the PP, and less time 5v5 (wasn't he on the 3rd line for most of the regular season?).