LW Patrik Laine (2016, 2nd, WPG) XVI

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Oh so you too think Laine is already better than Ovechkin?

Is what he answered when i asked:

"Has anyone of you Toronto fans actually watched most of the Jets games, so you would actually know what you´re talking about?"

How about answering that question?
 
Scheif and Laine benefit from each other, period. Scheif has value in some Laine's goals that didn't came off from Scheifele's pass. Lets not pretend otherwise. On the other hand, Laine scores goals from places and situations that most do not, so it goes both ways. Lets just enjoy watching them, not argue whether who benefits from who etc.

Very eloquently said. That's the point that people are trying to get across. Having a centre as good as Schiefele is undeniably better for Laine than were he saddled with Matthias. Not this strawman "he's a product of Schefiele and would be nothing without him" that the safe spacers are warping it to to attack it. It's pretty simple stuff really.
 
This sums it up for me.

And he has done everything in that schedule so far. Every time I project it's something "down the line" for him, he does it tomorrow.

I think he's got a lot to learn, and physically maturing will be a big difference as well. The part that has surprised me is his ability to produce regardless of all the nuances in his game that he has yet to implement consistently. He's a threat to score anywhere in the offensive zone, whether it's a tip in front of the net or a shot through traffic he is just deadly. Imagining him picking up tips from Scheifele in regards to the defensive aspect of the game or how to position himself and read plays before they happen and be more engaged in board battles just makes me excited to see him become a totally dominating force in all three zones. It certainly won't hurt him to play with two very talented and devoted hockey players, that effort level is contagious and rubs off on anyone. If we can keep that line together, they're going to wreak havoc on the league for many years to come as they continue to develop and improve. Scheifele's the oldest... at age 23. You can't not be excited watching the three of them right now knowing they'll only get better.
 
Oh yeah?

You have the stage, go!

I'm gonna disengage on this convo I think, gotten a little too intense and unfounded for my liking

but have a look at their stats prior to this season, not that they're comparable across leagues, but Matthews handily outproduced Laine (in worse leagues) and had been the favourite to go #1 in this draft for like 3 years....Laine wasn't the main competition for most of it, Chychrun and Puljujarvi were.

As for the "best european prospect of all time" stuff, he wasn't the first european skater taken in his own draft. He's going to be a star, but to declare him better than Ovechkin, Jagr, Malkin, Bure, Sundin, Alfredsson, Forsberg, etc is just spewing hyperbole. If he ends up as the best Finn of all time, call that a win
 
Now it's clear my goal prediction for him (27) is literally going more and more south as the season progresses.

Scheif and Laine benefit from each other, period. Scheif has value in some Laine's goals that didn't came off from Scheifele's pass. Lets not pretend otherwise. On the other hand, Laine scores goals from places and situations that most do not, so it goes both ways. Lets just enjoy watching them, not argue whether who benefits from who etc.

I don't think digging up scoresheets is the right way in this case, Scheif certainly does a lot of good things on the ice that don't end up in his point totals.

Scheifele is a player by his simple presence on the ice makes other players better. I really noticed this starting in at the WHC, where he and Stone formed what I thought was Canada's best line. The 3rd member I forget off the top of my head. But that line was dominating. Then he carried it onto helping McDavid at the WC this late summer. He is a player that defies reading just boxcores. Saying that, I agree with you they benefit each other. I don't think any one player is carrying that line. All 3 pieces brings their own positives. When Little gets back, it may open things up for them even more, as I am sure opposing coaches are keying on them right now drawing up defensive plans. Which makes their production even more remarkable to date.
 
I think the discussion of Laine's pace underlying numbers and it's sustainability is a fair topic for discussion in a Laine thread. It's a legitimate point that his three main responses-

Genuine belief that he will transcend the upper echelon of performance in the game
Acceptance of statistical likelihood, but counter that his shot rate will likely rise (I'm in this camp, just not sure where the pendulum will settle, likely higher than I thought going into the season)
Childish ignorance, mudslinging, crying for this thread to be a safe space with any negativity banished

Yeah. Though there may have been the performance-based progression in expectations among the fan-fans that it would be a disappointment at this point if the third hattrick at 18 doesn't materialize. Pre-season it would have been more of a wet dream if it did happen, and you probably would not have found anyone to avatar bet for it. Now you might rather have problem to find someone to agree to bet for the opposite.

What my point is trying to be is that he's been beating hard some other generally accepted understandings that were quite intact still when the season hadn't started yet. Like, if you're of the statistically inclined kind.
 
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Scheifele is a player by his simple presence on the ice makes other players better. I really noticed this starting in at the WHC, where he and Stone formed what I thought was Canada's best line. The 3rd member I forget off the top of my head. But that line was dominating. Then he carried it onto helping McDavid at the WC this late summer. He is a player that defies reading just boxcores. Saying that, I agree with you they benefit each other. I don't think any one player is carrying that line. All 3 pieces brings their own positives. When Little gets back, it may open things up for them even more, as I am sure opposing coaches are keying on them right now. Which makes their production even more remarkable.

The third player on that line ended up being Ryan O'Rielly in the final games. What a complete nightmare it must have been for teams trying to break out of their zone with those 3 guys together. Stone in particular picked off so many passes and broke up a lot of plays heading down the ice, I believe one of them ended up being right in front of the net in the high slot that he made the other team pay dearly for.
 
The third player on that line ended up being Ryan O'Rielly in the final games. What a complete nightmare it must have been for teams trying to break out of their zone with those 3 guys together. Stone in particular picked off so many passes and broke up a lot of plays heading down the ice, I believe one of them ended up being right in front of the net in the high slot that he made the other team pay dearly for.

Yep, that was right. Thanks.
 
Laine and Schief like the great Hull and Oates? I imagine Oates being like Chevy Chase's character in caddy shack all zen'd out. Next time you see Schief pass or shoot do the "NAAnanananaana..." in your head... totally fits.
 
I don't remember what yours was, but I think it had the requirement of above 23% shooting and he's not even at that right now so I don't think that's a good bet to take.

Sitting at 23.5 with a gpg of .66.

Call it min 60 games, stays above 22% and 0.61 (50 goal pace). +/- .2% (21.8-22.2) and .005 (0.605-0.615) as the friendly draw spread.

Off season avatar
 
I think he's got a lot to learn, and physically maturing will be a big difference as well. The part that has surprised me is his ability to produce regardless of all the nuances in his game that he has yet to implement consistently.

Yeah that is exactly it. I haven't seen a development curve that steep, ever. It's plain as day when you look at him skate and play physically, that he's nowhere near his ceiling physically or otherwise. So much room to improve. Today it's not even close to what he can be if he just developed normally, let alone at the freaky pace he has been doing.

And yet the score board says he is already the top goal scorer in the game. What will he be when those obvious disadvantages have grown smaller and smaller, and when he fills to his huge frame and actually has a physical advantage over majority of players and still keeps his major advantages in shooting and other things?

I've fallen short in my predictions for him, and my predictions have been called "insane" by a large group of people.
 
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