LW Matthew Knies - Tri-City Storm, USHL (2021, 57th, TOR)

[3 Minute Minor]

I mean, even the experts are saying how good he's looked, so it's not just fan hype. They've seen him play, you probably haven't I'm guessing. Neither have I, outside of highlights. His stats may not be elite just yet, but it sounds like all the tools are there. The size, the scoring ability, the skating etc. A legit power forward prospect.

So to be clear, you've never seen him? You're saying I've never seen him because you've never seen him? And you're quoting "experts" as if they've never been wrong and never disagree?

Also nobody has actually knocked him or his game. Nobody has disagreed that his skillset is impressive or that it will be a great fit with what the leafs have & need. The conversation is about whether or not it's the right decision for him to leave college right now.

 

[BlueBaron]

I think its always wise to be cautious with College guys in both expectation and development.

I know Steve Dangle has said some stuff about him coming right in to play but Steve isn't a scout, he's a super fan with a high degree of optimism.

I'd be lying if I didn't say I hope we plucked up a top line PWF LW who could make the team next year but if memory serves..... power forwards take longer, if that is indeed what he is.

it's nice to have real prospects though.

 

[Peasy]

Lol when I heard Steve saying the leafs planned for knies to come in and play for the playoffs I just laughed. The dude knows nothing about specs. And if that really was/is the leafs plan then that is just moronic.

There's no need to bring him over for next year. Let him play another year of college hockey in a prominent role. The leafs still have bunting for next year. Not bringing knies over also gives them a better opportunity to see what Robertson is capable of in an increased role.

No need to rush knies just because he was better than you expected this year.

 

[4thline]

I don't think anyones point was changing Knies' postal code = bad

It's the idea of yo-yo'ing prospects up and down between the AHL & NHL can mess with their confidence and knock them off their game. Especially highly touted prospects.

Just think of the context right now. You have a 2nd round pick that just played 1 year of college. He went into it with nobody really putting any expectation on him. I doubt he went into the season thinking 1 n done. No fans were putting him in their playoff lineup at the start of the season. Now the hype train is off the rails. People are comparing him stylistically to the best goal scorer in todays game and expecting him to be the perfect fit in the top 6 of one of the top 5-10 teams in the NHL. That's quite the needle to thread as a 19 year old 2nd round pick.

See post 153. That's not at all what I'm advocating for. There are certainly paths out side of school that risk messing him up. But there are also paths outside of school that introduce tangible benefit for very little to no risk.

 

[peconcan]

I get people not thinking he’s NHL ready, but playing a significant role on the Marlies next year will be just fine. He can learn how to be a professional with the Marlies while still being able to get in some games with the big club. I’d rather him play on the Marlies where the Leafs have full control over him than dominate college hockey and have the risk of him deciding he wants to stay the next 2 years and then walk to free agency.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Lol when I heard Steve saying the leafs planned for knies to come in and play for the playoffs I just laughed. The dude knows nothing about specs. And if that really was/is the leafs plan then that is just moronic.

There's no need to bring him over for next year. Let him play another year of college hockey in a prominent role. The leafs still have bunting for next year. Not bringing knies over also gives them a better opportunity to see what Robertson is capable of in an increased role.

No need to rush knies just because he was better than you expected this year.

I think one more year in college then bringing him to the AHL when the NCAA season is over will be really beneficial to the kid. I'd bet dollars to rubles he will be a Hobey Baker contender next year.

 

[Eggtimer]

.

 

[Eggtimer]

I think the Leafs might finally be good enough to be allowed to play with Knies and be in his presence...
He doesnt "make" the team , the team has to make the ability to play with him

 

[Man Bear Pig]

So to be clear, you've never seen him? You're saying I've never seen him because you've never seen him? And you're quoting "experts" as if they've never been wrong and never disagree?

Also nobody has actually knocked him or his game. Nobody has disagreed that his skillset is impressive or that it will be a great fit with what the leafs have & need. The conversation is about whether or not it's the right decision for him to leave college right now.

I said I'm assuming you've never seen him play. There's a lot of hf posters who go to hockeydb and that's it. I'm quoting "experts" because that's what they're paid for, it doesn't mean they're right, but I'd take their opinion over most internet posters.

 

[oooooooooohCanada]

Lol when I heard Steve saying the leafs planned for knies to come in and play for the playoffs I just laughed. The dude knows nothing about specs. And if that really was/is the leafs plan then that is just moronic.

There's no need to bring him over for next year. Let him play another year of college hockey in a prominent role. The leafs still have bunting for next year. Not bringing knies over also gives them a better opportunity to see what Robertson is capable of in an increased role.

No need to rush knies just because he was better than you expected this year.

@dangle, He works at sportsnet and is good friends with multiple insiders. Not to mention Dubas quite literally said they kept two contract slots open this season to potentially sign Abruezse and Knies. He attended Knies NCAA tournament game the other day too lol. The plan is most definitely to get him signed and into some games. If he doesn't do much of anything oh well he can go play with the Marlies. If he looks decent, the Leafs instantly add a 6'3" skilled powerforward to their contending team.

 

[BKarchitect]

Knies is a beast and he’s gonna be a great pro. This isn’t Leaf’s hype, I’m no TML fan but I think his game is deliciously protectable. If nothing else trust Gophers fans who watch him game in game out and have seen countless pros skate on home ice. All these statistical comparisons fall pretty flat for me…Holloway is coming back from multiple wrist surgeries he will be fine and his AHL form this year is a really poor benchmark.

That said sure, I’d love to see Knies back to dominate as a sophomore next year.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Really tempting to put him straight in the lineup given his skillset relative to Leafs needs, but put me in the camp of another year of college or the Marlies being optimal route .

 

[HockeyVirus]

People seriously questioning the Leafs development? I think the Leafs have players they've developed playing key roles on over half the teams in the league. They know what they are doing.

As for the people saying "oh only this in scoring", Leafs are looking at the tools. They have scoring, but they don't have someone who plays like a power forward, with a wicked shot and an edge to their game. The excitement is from him riding shotgun in the top 6 and putting up points like Bunting is while just playing his physical brand of hockey.

That has tremendous value.

 

[Apotheosis]

People seriously questioning the Leafs development? I think the Leafs have players they've developed playing key roles on over half the teams in the league. They know what they are doing.

As for the people saying "oh only this in scoring", Leafs are looking at the tools. They have scoring, but they don't have someone who plays like a power forward, with a wicked shot and an edge to their game. The excitement is from him riding shotgun in the top 6 and putting up points like Bunting is while just playing his physical brand of hockey.

That has tremendous value.

Part of me does not want to get too hyped but imagining him on the current Matthews line and being able to move Bunting to the Tavares line sounds like a wet dream.

 

[Future]

Right?

I went back to 2005-06 to see Draft+1 19 year olds in college

Elite Prospects - NCAA Stats All-time season

All-time/historical regular season stats and leaders per season for NCAA, including top goal scorers, most games played, PPG leaders and more.

www.eliteprospects.com

Knies was 23rd in scoring.

If fans need an example to temper expectations, look at Dylan Holloway. That guy had 1.5ppg at Wisconsin and is currently struggling to score in the AHL

There are very very very few examples of guys on that list who jumped to the NHL at 20 successfully

No one is expecting Knies to lead any league or team in scoring. Most people understand that he’s not going to be a line driver center piece. The hope is for him to develop into an elite complimentary player with unique traits ala Landeskog, Wilson, etc. A player like that is perfect for Toronto in particular, hence why there is this excitement.

The people coming in here to comment on the hype are extremely ignorant. The kid has an 8 page thread on the prospects forum where most top prospects get 25+ if not multiple threads. What ridiculous hype are these people referring to?

The constant whining on this board over anything leafs related is hilarious but very annoying.

 

[TheDoldrums]

The people coming in here to comment on the hype are extremely ignorant. The kid has an 8 page thread on the prospects forum where most top prospects get 25+ if not multiple threads. What ridiculous hype are these people referring to?

Yeah Leafs prospects were way more talked about when the NHL team was bad, it's only natural for teams out of it to spend all their time obsessing about the future. I mean look at the Niemela thread. He was drafted by the biggest fanbase in the league, is breaking records in Finland but he barely gets any posts.

 

[rocketdan9]

Knies is a beast and he’s gonna be a great pro. This isn’t Leaf’s hype, I’m no TML fan but I think his game is deliciously protectable. If nothing else trust Gophers fans who watch him game in game out and have seen countless pros skate on home ice. All these statistical comparisons fall pretty flat for me…Holloway is coming back from multiple wrist surgeries he will be fine and his AHL form this year is a really poor benchmark.

That said sure, I’d love to see Knies back to dominate as a sophomore next year.

Has his skating improved?

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Has his skating improved?

Yes it has. He still needs work on his first few steps but when he hits top speed hes moving real quick.

 

[rocketdan9]

Yes it has. He still needs work on his first few steps but when he hits top speed hes moving real quick.

Thats good
But reality is...value is on the first few steps/instant reaction

Nick Ritchie has enough mobility once he gets moving. But as you know...he is a step late most of the time

 

[Legion34]

Lol when I heard Steve saying the leafs planned for knies to come in and play for the playoffs I just laughed. The dude knows nothing about specs. And if that really was/is the leafs plan then that is just moronic.

There's no need to bring him over for next year. Let him play another year of college hockey in a prominent role. The leafs still have bunting for next year. Not bringing knies over also gives them a better opportunity to see what Robertson is capable of in an increased role.

No need to rush knies just because he was better than you expected this year.

Whatever people think of Steve dangle.., we all have our opinions and I’m not personally overly fond of his analysis.

But…
He is personal friends with marek and Friedman. And he literally is the boss of Chris Johnston and Alan Walsh so he absolutely does have connections.

What a crazy world

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

Thats good
But reality is...value is on the first few steps/instant reaction

Nick Ritchie has enough mobility once he gets moving. But as you know...he is a step late most of the time

Hes much faster then Nick Ritchie. Knies skating is above average, he just needs to continue working on it so it can become a big strength.

 

[MNRube]

It's pretty remarkable how close he is in scoring to the top 5 draft picks ---- on top of scoring, he plays a 2-way game and can absolutely crush someone.

His comparison is Tom Wilson.

He’s not gonna be a menace like Wilson. To me he’s like Lawson Crouse with hockey IQ and finishing ability.

While it’s a sure thing he gets overrated in the next few months, it’s hard to blame Toronto because he is exactly what their Top 9 needs.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

No one is expecting Knies to lead any league or team in scoring. Most people understand that he’s not going to be a line driver center piece. The hope is for him to develop into an elite complimentary player with unique traits ala Landeskog, Wilson, etc. A player like that is perfect for Toronto in particular, hence why there is this excitement.

The people coming in here to comment on the hype are extremely ignorant. The kid has an 8 page thread on the prospects forum where most top prospects get 25+ if not multiple threads. What ridiculous hype are these people referring to?

The constant whining on this board over anything leafs related is hilarious but very annoying.

I agree

No one is talking about KNies leading the league or team in scoring and nobody is talking about him being a line driving center piece. I even agree that the hope should be to develop him into an elite complimentary player although it is a bit funny that you compared him to a 7mill a year captain that was picked #2 overall & Tom Wilson who's Tom Wilson. I even agree that this type of player is a perfect fit for Toronto.

But then you totally lost the plot.

Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say a huge section of the fanbase & media aren't actively talking about Knies as a player who should be in the NHL next season? Hell there's a huge section of the fanbase talking about him being in the NHL lineup for playoffs.

Maybe you're not denying that, maybe you're the ignorant one here?

Do you have any idea how rare it is for D+2 college players to jump to the NHL full-time? In NHL history there are 17 college forwards to make the jump from college to the NHL and play 41+ games. That list includes guys like Clayton Keller, Phil Kessel, Dylan Larkin, Brady Tkachuk, Tyson Jost, Jonathan Toews, Kyle Turris, Jack Eichel, Paul Kariya, Glenn Anderson, etc. If you don't see the trend there, it's a lot of high skill lottery picks that were expected to be team scoring leaders and line drivers.

Some guys who just missed out on 41 games include Colin Wilson, Max Pacioretty, Ryan Kesler, Trevor Zegras, Kyle Connor, Luke Kunin. Those guys split time in the AHL.

I'm not sure if you're denial that there is a Knies hype train or you just don't understand the hype that comes with suggesting a D+2 20 year old should be in the NHL.

You know what else is hilarious and very annoying, being a Leaf fan and having fellow Leaf fans constantly act like I'm a Leaf hater for not saying "Oh wow another unbelievable flawless prospect that is perfect for Toronto and Torontos development staff has a secret formula"

I am a Leaf fan and I think the hype is out of control and he would be better served in college.

 

[Bonin21]

There has not been a freshman forward as NHL ready through the U of M program since Phil Kessel.

But one more year would not hurt him whatsoever and there is something to be desired about being the big man on campus for a couple years vs. playing in a hockey crazy market where if you have a rough stretch people pile on you regardless of your age.

 

[Future]

I agree

No one is talking about KNies leading the league or team in scoring and nobody is talking about him being a line driving center piece. I even agree that the hope should be to develop him into an elite complimentary player although it is a bit funny that you compared him to a 7mill a year captain that was picked #2 overall & Tom Wilson who's Tom Wilson. I even agree that this type of player is a perfect fit for Toronto.

But then you totally lost the plot.

Are you going to sit there with a straight face and say a huge section of the fanbase & media aren't actively talking about Knies as a player who should be in the NHL next season? Hell there's a huge section of the fanbase talking about him being in the NHL lineup for playoffs.

Maybe you're not denying that, maybe you're the ignorant one here?

Do you have any idea how rare it is for D+2 college players to jump to the NHL full-time? In NHL history there are 17 college forwards to make the jump from college to the NHL and play 41+ games. That list includes guys like Clayton Keller, Phil Kessel, Dylan Larkin, Brady Tkachuk, Tyson Jost, Jonathan Toews, Kyle Turris, Jack Eichel, Paul Kariya, Glenn Anderson, etc. If you don't see the trend there, it's a lot of high skill lottery picks that were expected to be team scoring leaders and line drivers.

Some guys who just missed out on 41 games include Colin Wilson, Max Pacioretty, Ryan Kesler, Trevor Zegras, Kyle Connor, Luke Kunin. Those guys split time in the AHL.

I'm not sure if you're denial that there is a Knies hype train or you just don't understand the hype that comes with suggesting a D+2 20 year old should be in the NHL.

You know what else is hilarious and very annoying, being a Leaf fan and having fellow Leaf fans constantly act like I'm a Leaf hater for not saying "Oh wow another unbelievable flawless prospect that is perfect for Toronto and Torontos development staff has a secret formula"

I am a Leaf fan and I think the hype is out of control and he would be better served in college.

I don’t think people suggesting he is NHL ready are overhyping him. They’re just looking at a guy that’s 6’3” 220+lbs that is scoring at a high rate in college and thinking he’d translate well to pro hockey.

Usually the biggest concern about rushing a prospect is if they’d be able to handle the physicality and pace of pro hockey. Don’t have to worry about the first one, second one is still a question mark (at least right now). Either way, I’d defer to Dubas and the Leafs development staff. They’ve been monitoring him all year obviously. They tend to employ an overly patient approach, but if they think he’s ready and have a plan to put him in a position where he can succeed, they should go for it.

A second year at Min is probably the safer route, but I don’t think him playing pro right away here is going to derail his career. AHL is still an option and the Marlies have become one of the best clubs to play for if you want to develop your game.