LW Lawson Crouse - Kingston Frontenacs, OHL (2015 Draft)

[sabrebuild]

Well if we're just going to read the stat sheet then Crouse isn't a 1st rounder.

Love the hyperbole. Nobody but the most random posters are saying he isn't a mid first rounder. They just think it is absurd that he should be in the top 5.

The more you keep saying Lucic has more value than Nic Backstrom, the more you sound super silly. Amongst a variety of silly opinions on this thread that one is beyond the pale.

 

[Get North]

Love the hyperbole. Nobody but the most random posters are saying he isn't a mid first rounder. They just think it is absurd that he should be in the top 5.

The more you keep saying Lucic has more value than Nic Backstrom, the more you sound super silly. Amongst a variety of silly opinions on this thread that one is beyond the pale.

Lucic having more value than Backstrom isn't silly, guys like Jeff Carter get traded, Marian Gaborik and Rick Nash. When was the last time a PWF like Lucic got traded? Boston would never let Lucic go.

Calling Crouse a mid first rounder is wrong IMO.

 

[lawrence]

got a scout that works for Mynhldraft that posts on the Canucks main page forum. and one other source. Forgot what it was. Here his take on Lawson Crouse

Crouse is a guy you love to have on your team and hate to play against.

Hard to contain, is decently physical, has a ton of skill and upside offensively.



In my opinion, he looks a lot like Zack Kassian, when Kass was playing with Windsor.

Great hands and ability down low to just pound the puck into the net.

Now he may be very very good in all areas of his game (offensive end, neutral zone pickoffs, defensive stability, two-way play), and a complete hockey player in that sense, but I wouldn't go far enough to say that he's absolutely dynamic in one area of his game.

In essence, he is an all-round player that does everything well, and not just one thing extremely well enough to say that he's dynamic in [X or Y] way.



A guy that you love to have on your team, and hate to play against.

that is all, I don't really care if he goes number 3 or 6, i'm not going to lose sleep like some people here, move on. He's a solid kid

 

[X66]

Well if we're just going to read the stat sheet then Crouse isn't a 1st rounder.

I stated a top 10 pick.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

got a scout that works for Mynhldraft that posts on the Canucks main page forum. and one other source. Forgot what it was. Here his take on Lawson Crouse



that is all, I don't really care if he goes number 3 or 6, i'm not going to lose sleep like some people here, move on. He's a solid kid

He was compared to Kassian that's not exactly promising

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Lucic having more value than Backstrom isn't silly, guys like Jeff Carter get traded, Marian Gaborik and Rick Nash. When was the last time a PWF like Lucic got traded? Boston would never let Lucic go.

Calling Crouse a mid first rounder is wrong IMO.

Its the very epitome of silly. When was the last time a center like Backstrom was traded?

I've already listed a bunch of PWFs who have been traded or moved recently. Kassian? Foligno? Clarkson? Simmonds? Ladd?

If PWFs are more valuable than 'one dimensional scorers', then why did Chicago choose to let Ladd and Byfuglien walk over Kane and Sharp? Keep in mind Buff was coming off of an 11 goal playoff performance as a fwd.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

got a scout that works for Mynhldraft that posts on the Canucks main page forum. and one other source. Forgot what it was. Here his take on Lawson Crouse



that is all, I don't really care if he goes number 3 or 6, i'm not going to lose sleep like some people here, move on. He's a solid kid

What if he goes 12?

 

[Get North]

Its the very epitome of silly. When was the last time a center like Backstrom was traded?

I've already listed a bunch of PWFs who have been traded or moved recently. Kassian? Foligno? Clarkson? Simmonds? Ladd?

If PWFs are more valuable than 'one dimensional scorers', then why did Chicago choose to let Ladd and Byfuglien walk over Kane and Sharp? Keep in mind Buff was coming off of an 11 goal playoff performance as a fwd.

Brad Richards, Nieuwendyk, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards who aren't PPG players but I doubt Backstrom is a PPG player without Ovechkin to feed the puck to. Plenty of wingers also got traded and moved around like Hossa, Whitney, Gaborik, Kessel, St. Louis, Jagr, Heatley.

I would hardly call Clarkson a PWF, he's 6'1. You could call someone like Dorsett a PWF then or Clutterbuck. Kassian is hardly a NHL player, he just got scratched against the Rangers. Foligno is 6 feet? He doesn't play like a PWF. Simmonds and Kassian weren't in the prime of their career when they got traded, that's the difference between my comparisons and yours. Alright I'll give you Ladd though but wasn't that for cap reasons?

They traded Ladd and Byfuglien for cap reasons, Kane, Toews and Keith just signed extensions during the season then in the summer traded Ladd and Byfuglien. Ladd, Toews, Keith vs Ladd and Byfuglien isn't comparable to Lucic vs Backstrom.

 

[BigBuck]

What if he goes 12?

Then that team would be very happy.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Anybody who watches him knows how many chances he creates by himself and how dangerous he is out there. You don't get drafted 5th overall in the OHL, have the most goals at the Ivan Hlinka without creating chances

I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who have watched him play feel the same way, at least relative to some of the elite talent out there. But don't take that as a total negative. Pretty much all scouts love the guy and would love to see their team draft him. But that doesn't mean he is top 10 on their list.

And lots of guys have been drafted 5th overall or there abouts and have ended up below average junior players. The fact you are leaning on where he was selected out of midget is pretty thin. Hayden McCool was drafted 6th overall and doesn't create a ton of chances either, at least relative to guys like Strome and Marner. No one has probably heard of him (although he has the same number of points as Crouse, actually).

Just because someone doesn't think Crouse is a top 10 talent, doesn't mean they still don't like the guy as potential pro. I'd love for the Sens to get Crouse, but that doesn't mean I want them to pick him ahead of some other guys with higher potential impact.

 

[sniper81]

I think you're missing the point. Many of the people who have watched him play feel the same way, at least relative to some of the elite talent out there. But don't take that as a total negative. Pretty much all scouts love the guy and would love to see their team draft him. But that doesn't mean he is top 10 on their list.

And lots of guys have been drafted 5th overall or there abouts and have ended up below average junior players. The fact you are leaning on where he was selected out of midget is pretty thin. Hayden McCool was drafted 6th overall and doesn't create a ton of chances either, at least relative to guys like Strome and Marner. No one has probably heard of him (although he has the same number of points as Crouse, actually).

Just because someone doesn't think Crouse is a top 10 talent, doesn't mean they still don't like the guy as potential pro. I'd love for the Sens to get Crouse, but that doesn't mean I want them to pick him ahead of some other guys with higher potential impact.

Did you really just compare him to Hayden McCool? The difference between the 2 is strictly smarts, McCool wasn't smart and was very inconsistent at the bantam and minor midget level and a lot of people were shocked when he was taken that high. Crouse always has been 10 times the player McCool was. Take this from someone who watched both very closely in their minor midget years.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

Did you really just compare him to Hayden McCool? The difference between the 2 is strictly smarts, McCool wasn't smart and was very inconsistent at the bantam and minor midget level and a lot of people were shocked when he was taken that high. Crouse always has been 10 times the player McCool was. Take this from someone who watched both very closely in their minor midget years.

I did not take that away from what he said and i thought you responded in a very defensive way. He was merely saying midget rankings arent the be all and end all and that McCool has the same amount of points

 

[Romang67]

There is seriously a player named McCool? That's the best name on a hockey player since Warsofsky!

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

There is seriously a player named McCool? That's the best name on a hockey player since Warsofsky!

How about LaFranchise? That was a great hockey name

 

[sniper81]

I did not take that away from what he said and i thought you responded in a very defensive way. He was merely saying midget rankings arent the be all and end all and that McCool has the same amount of points

Then maybe McCool should be a top 10 pick because to everyone in this thread, besides a select few, all that matter is point totals.

 

[lawrence]

I stated a top 10 pick.

but he stated based on your criteria of stats only scouting he wouldn't even be a 1st round pick because you guys (hfboard.com members) members like you and many others rely too heavy stats. Members like you will probably wouldn't even draft someone like Bo Horvat in the 1st round. (without the important aspect of scouting a player) Clueless as you guys are. Scouting is more important. those scouts have it down. ISS CSS, Mckenzies sources,

Hfboards.com members don't. Stats stats stats and more stats. It's more beyond the numbers. How bout Ryan Johansen? Drafted 4th overall wasn't even a point per game in draft year. This forum is becoming a joke.

 

[Dr.Sens(e)]

Then maybe McCool should be a top 10 pick because to everyone in this thread, besides a select few, all that matter is point totals.

You are seemingly unable to understand the points being made. How you feel I compared McCool to Crouse as players is obviously an indication I've sunk to a new low in humouring someone of your ilk.

Apologies for all who had to witness this wasted exchange. Move along.

 

[sabrebuild]

but he stated based on your criteria of stats only scouting he wouldn't even be a 1st round pick because you guys (hfboard.com members) members like you and many others rely too heavy stats. Members like you will probably wouldn't even draft someone like Bo Horvat in the 1st round. (without the important aspect of scouting a player) Clueless as you guys are. Scouting is more important. those scouts have it down. ISS CSS, Mckenzies sources,

Hfboards.com members don't. Stats stats stats and more stats. It's more beyond the numbers. How bout Ryan Johansen? Drafted 4th overall wasn't even a point per game in draft year. This forum is becoming a joke.

Wow, just wonw. Nuance blows right by you. The entire discussion is not about whether he is a first round pick. It's about whether he is a top 5 pick or per the example you used, a Zach Kassian pick 10-15. Stats are only be used to contextualize the unique path to the league that Crouse would have to go to become worth a top 5 pick, particularly in a year when there are other forwards having tremendous seasons that are in line with 1st overall picks of years past.

 

[sabrebuild]

Brad Richards, Nieuwendyk, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards who aren't PPG players but I doubt Backstrom is a PPG player without Ovechkin to feed the puck to. Plenty of wingers also got traded and moved around like Hossa, Whitney, Gaborik, Kessel, St. Louis, Jagr, Heatley.

I would hardly call Clarkson a PWF, he's 6'1. You could call someone like Dorsett a PWF then or Clutterbuck. Kassian is hardly a NHL player, he just got scratched against the Rangers. Foligno is 6 feet? He doesn't play like a PWF. Simmonds and Kassian weren't in the prime of their career when they got traded, that's the difference between my comparisons and yours. Alright I'll give you Ladd though but wasn't that for cap reasons?

They traded Ladd and Byfuglien for cap reasons, Kane, Toews and Keith just signed extensions during the season then in the summer traded Ladd and Byfuglien. Ladd, Toews, Keith vs Ladd and Byfuglien isn't comparable to Lucic vs Backstrom.

Brad Richards, traded for cap reasons as well, Nieuwendyk, traded 20 years ago, Carter and Richards were both traded for off ice reasons and returned giant packages, but all of that is irrelevant because none of it has anything to do with proving because players get traded in the league and Lucic hasn't yet that power forwards don't get traded. Geez. You know who else Boston hasn't traded? Krecji, Bergeron and Marchand.

Not that this proves anything because polls suck, but go on the trade board and put up a poll asking how many people would trade Lucic for Backstrom or any other equivalent center you can think of and see how many people agree with you.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

It sounds like Sam Bennett is going to be returned to Kingston by the Flames, as early as possibly this weekend. Should be interesting to see how Crouse does when he finally has an actual top line center to play with.

 

[Get North]

Brad Richards, traded for cap reasons as well, Nieuwendyk, traded 20 years ago, Carter and Richards were both traded for off ice reasons and returned giant packages, but all of that is irrelevant because none of it has anything to do with proving because players get traded in the league and Lucic hasn't yet that power forwards don't get traded. Geez. You know who else Boston hasn't traded? Krecji, Bergeron and Marchand.

Not that this proves anything because polls suck, but go on the trade board and put up a poll asking how many people would trade Lucic for Backstrom or any other equivalent center you can think of and see how many people agree with you.

I don't hear about off ice problems from Richards and Carter in L.A.

And wow, Boston a contender didn't trade their good players when they don't have to. Really says alot.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I don't hear about off ice problems from Richards and Carter in L.A.

And wow, Boston a contender didn't trade their good players when they don't have to. Really says alot.

Aren't you the one who keeps bringing up how the fact that Lucic hasn't been traded is 100% evidence that Lawson Crouse is a top 5 pick?

 

[lawrence]

It sounds like Sam Bennett is going to be returned to Kingston by the Flames, as early as possibly this weekend. Should be interesting to see how Crouse does when he finally has an actual top line center to play with.

doubt Bennet will have any effect on Crouse draft rankings since it's already so high.

oohhhhhhhh buuuuuurn.

 

[Get North]

Aren't you the one who keeps bringing up how the fact that Lucic hasn't been traded is 100% evidence that Lawson Crouse is a top 5 pick?

Nope. Not alot to do with Crouse's production just that top 6 PWFs are more rare than skilled C's which the GMs know and take into account when they draft a player which might have a little bit to do with Crouse's ranking.

 

[Random Forest]

And wow, Boston a contender didn't trade their good players when they don't have to. Really says alot.

Dude, that was your entire premise.


Using the "Boston would never trade Lucic argument" fails completely when you acknowledge that "A contender didn't trade their good players when they don't have to".