LW Juraj Slafkovsky - TPS Turku, Liiga (2022, 1st, MTL) Part 2

[Eye of Ra]

The olympics up until the 90s was strictly amateur athletes only. The USSR purposely classified its athletes as students and soldiers to get around this. basketball, hockey, and boxing are pretty much the only sports that have professionals and it's a relatively new thing.

Anyways, it matters little because the point stands. I wouldn't look at numbers from such a tournament and expect NHL success.

Its not the 90s anymore. KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL and NLA is fully profesional.

Instead you are looking at numbers from a league that is far worse and only have juniors and expect NHL sucess. Makes no sense. Did it work for Lafrenière? No.

 

[goonybird]

Its not the 90s anymore. KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL and NLA is fully profesional.

Instead you are looking at numbers from a league that is far worse and only have juniors and expect NHL sucess. Makes no sense. Did it work for Lafrenière? No.

When did I look at numbers from a league that is far worse and only have juniors and expect NHL success?

Find me the post.

 

[xyzed]

Olympics is absolutely an amateur tournament, it's kind of the whole point of the Olympics when they don't have professional athletes competing.

Once again from the rooftops: I never said the OHL is better because I'm not making a stats based argument for any OHL player here.

you have no idea what you are talking about

 

[cave troll]

Olympics weren't amateur until 90-ties. It were just Olympic games without NHL.

 

[goonybird]

you have no idea what you are talking about

Olympics weren't amateur until 90-ties. It were just Olympic games without NHL.

The Olympic Games were originally intended for amateur athletes. However, the advent of the state-sponsored "full-time amateur athlete" of the Eastern Bloc countries further eroded the ideology of the pure amateur, as it put the self-financed amateurs of the Western countries at a disadvantage. The Soviet Union entered teams of athletes who were all nominally students, soldiers, or working in a profession, but many of whom were in reality paid by the state to train on a full-time basis.[1] In 1986, the International Olympic Committee (IOC) voted to allow professional athletes to compete in the Olympic Games starting in 1988

Sorry, 1988. 2 years off.

Anyways, you should expect top draft stock to produce decently in low calibre tournaments. I won't get too excited about that, but do find when players struggle in them to be cause for some concern

 

[xyzed]

@goonybird you wrote that the olympic tournament IS amateur. Which is simply not true. It used to be, but now it obviously is not. You seem very confused

Even when we talk about the Olympics in general. Most of the athletes are profesionals nowdays

 

[goonybird]

@goonybird you wrote that the olympic tournament IS amateur. Which is simply not true. It used to be, but now it obviously is not. You seem very confused

Even when we talk about the Olympics in general. Most of the athletes are profesionals nowdays

The Chinese team makes a living playing hockey therefore it is a professional tournament. In no way can it be called an inferior tournament and all point totals should be taken without any consideration for the overall quality therein. They are 1:1 predictors of NHL success.

My apologies.

 

[cave troll]

Sorry, 1988. 2 years off.

Anyways, you should expect top draft stock to produce decently in low calibre tournaments. I won't get too excited about that, but do find when players struggle in them to be cause for some concern

In Olympic games in Sarajevo in 1984, there were some NHL-ers in rosters.
USA: Chelios, LaFontaine, Sampson, Hirsch, Fusco..
Canada: Tippet, Wilson, Patrick, Donnelly...

 

[goonybird]

In Olympic games in Sarajevo in 1984, there were some NHL-ers in rosters.
USA: Chelios, LaFontaine, Sampson, Hirsch, Fusco..
Canada: Tippet, Wilson, Patrick, Donnelly...

They had to play at the olympics before their NHL team, but it doesn't matter. We're getting away from the point. OG without NHLers is worse than the WHC which is already bad enough.

Points in these tournaments: great! good job! but I won't be using those to boost or tear down players
No points in these tournaments: deeply concerning! I'd feel the need to dig deep and figure out why.

 

[xyzed]

The Chinese team makes a living playing hockey therefore it is a professional tournament. In no way can it be called an inferior tournament and all point totals should be taken without any consideration for the overall quality therein. They are 1:1 predictors of NHL success.

My apologies.

you see, instead of admitting your mistake, you just shift to something that was not even my point and make an absurd post

btw the Chinese team was there only because it was a host country and yes their players played in KHL so they were professionals. Some of them even have an NHL experience

 

[Eye of Ra]

The Chinese team makes a living playing hockey therefore it is a professional tournament. In no way can it be called an inferior tournament and all point totals should be taken without any consideration for the overall quality therein. They are 1:1 predictors of NHL success.

My apologies.

You are being sarcastic with this post. Eazy to tell.

KHL is the second best league in the world, and yet its amateur? Makes no sense.

You are young and have much to learn.

 

[goonybird]

It's amateur as in it sucks, yes. not that people don't make a living doing it (well...now probably not rofl).

you see, instead of admitting your mistake, you just shift to something that was not even my point and make an absurd post

btw the Chinese team was there only because it was a host country and yes their players played in KHL so they were professionals. Some of them even have an NHL experience

It's the conversation you inserted yourself into, not my fault you didn't keep up

 

[cave troll]

Its not the 90s anymore. KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL and NLA is fully profesional.

Instead you are looking at numbers from a league that is far worse and only have juniors and expect NHL sucess. Makes no sense. Did it work for Lafrenière? No.

Did it work for McDavid, Draisaitl, Crosby, Stamkos, Kane, Tavares, MacKinnon, Marner, Huberdeau,....?
I mean, you're bashing junior leagues which produced best hockey players in the world and say that playing vs men in Finland as 17,18 yrs old kids is the real deal.
Yes, sure the lastest Liiga superstar kids who learned to play vs men showed top quality - from Puljujarvi, through Kotkaniemi to Kakko.
The middle one didn't learn how to skate properly while playing vs men and no wonder he's a bottom line feeder now.

 

[Eye of Ra]

It's amateur as in it sucks, yes. not that people don't make a living doing it (well...now probably not rofl).

So there is only 1 good league in the World. NHL. Sure.

Everyone who plays in KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL, NLA etc is making a living of it.

Why is there 200+ europeans in NHL, if european hockey sucks?

 

[goonybird]

So there is only 1 good league in the World. NHL. Sure.

Everyone who plays in KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL, NLA etc is making a living of it.

Why is there 200+ europeans in NHL, if european hockey sucks?

I mean, when you're looking to project NHL success maybe don't hold up scoring in a 7-10 game tournament full of players who washed out of the NHL as your bar for elite talent?

Just accept that he had a good tournament but it doesn't make him a slamdunk better prospect than a guy who didn't play in it?

 

[Eye of Ra]

Did it work for McDavid, Draisaitl, Crosby, Stamkos, Kane, Tavares, MacKinnon, Marner, Huberdeau,....?
I mean, you're bashing junior leagues which produced best hockey players in the world and say that playing vs men in Finland as 17,18 yrs old kids is the real deal.
Yes, sure the lastest Liiga superstar kids who learned to play vs men showed top quality - from Puljujarvi, through Kotkaniemi to Kakko.
The middle one didn't learn how to skate properly while playing vs men and no wonder he's a bottom line feeder now.

There is bad exemples aswell but you are only focusing on the good ones.

Not a single OHL team would be good enough to play in Liiga. Juniors have less experiance and smaller and most of the players in OHL will never be good enough to play in Liiga.

Rantanen, Laine, Aho, Heiskanen....lets ignore them, right?

I mean, when you're looking to project NHL success maybe don't hold up scoring in a 7-10 game tournament full of players who washed out of the NHL as your bar for elite talent?

Because its still higher level than OHL. And you are forgetting Worlds.

Also he had 7 points in Liiga playoffs.

Just accept that he had a good tournament but it doesn't make him a slamdunk better prospect than a guy who didn't play in it?

And what makes u think that Slaf would not dominate in OHL?

 

[goonybird]

There is bad exemples aswell but you are only focusing on the good ones.

Not a single OHL team would be good enough to play in Liiga. Juniors have less experiance and smaller and most of the players in OHL will never be good enough to play in Liiga.

Rantanen, Laine, Aho, Heiskanen....lets ignore them, right?


Because its still higher level than OHL. And you are forgetting Worlds.

Also he had 7 points in Liiga playoffs.


And what makes u think that Slaf would not dominate in OHL?

Why do you keep bringing up the OHL? Slafkovsky having a good tournament against a bunch of scrubs doesn't have anything to do with the OHL.

The totally reasonable claim of

"I don't wanna doubt Slafkofsky's talent, but Olympics was full of scrubs. Farrell's 6 (3-3)points in 4 games doesn't make him a NHL caliber, just like Slafovsky's 7 (7-0) in 7 games doesn't make him a sure future star."

Seems to have you wrapped around the axle looking for ways to shit on Shane Wright and pump Slafkovsky up, when it was just someone saying we should pump our brakes. Same goes for Owen Power and Kent Johnson (though I think he'll be fine)

 

[Eye of Ra]

Why do you keep bringing up the OHL? Slafkovsky having a good tournament against a bunch of scrubs doesn't have anything to do with the OHL.

Because Wright plays in OHL, which is even more scrubs. Most of the guys in OHL is never gonna be good enough to play in scrubs Olympics as you call it.

You people are trying to dissmis Slaf. My point is that the same can be said about Wright and OHL.

Wrigh scoring against a bunch of kids is nice for him and all. But difference from OHL to NHL is gigantic. And still Wright is not top 10 PPG in OHL.

 

[cave troll]

It's amateur as in it sucks, yes. not that people don't make a living doing it (well...now probably not rofl).


It's the conversation you inserted yourself into, not my fault you didn't keep up

KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL, NL, former EBEL, Czech and Slovak leagues are fully professional.
Even the lower ones like French, Polish, Norway or Denmaker leagues are professional.
The quality hockey of those mentioned first is anything but bad not to mention the quality of hockey in European Champions league.
Yeah, the gap between hockey Champions League and NHL is still much bigger than, for example, basketaball Euroleague and NBA, but the level of pro hockey in Europe is rising year by year

 

[xyzed]

It's amateur as in it sucks, yes. not that people don't make a living doing it (well...now probably not rofl).


It's the conversation you inserted yourself into, not my fault you didn't keep up

ok lol, it is my right to respond to whatever I want. You didn't know how to react so you just made some ridiculous post about something else. I already proved that you have no idea what are you talking so I consider this conversation as ended. No reason to continue

 

[goonybird]

Because Wright plays in OHL, which is even more scrubs. Most of the guys in OHL is never gonna be good enough to play in scrubs Olympics as you call it.

You people are trying to dissmis Slaf. My point is that the same can be said about Wright and OHL.

Wrigh scoring against a bunch of kids is nice for him and all. But difference from OHL to NHL is gigantic. And still Wright is not top 10 PPG in OHL.

What does Wright have to do with this?

ok lol, it is my right to respond to whatever I want. You didn't know how to react so you just made some ridiculous post about something else. I already proved that you have no idea what are you talking so I consider this conversation as ended. No reason to continue

and then you woke up. have a fun day :^)

KHL, SHL, Liiga, DEL, NL, former EBEL, Czech and Slovak leagues are fully professional.
Even the lower ones like French, Polish, Norway or Denmaker leagues are professional.
The quality hockey of those mentioned first is anything but bad not to mention the quality of hockey in European Champions league.
Yeah, the gap between hockey Champions League and NHL is still much bigger than, for example, basketaball Euroleague and NBA, but the level of pro hockey in Europe is rising year by year

I'd put more stock in #s in those domestic leagues than the 2018 or 2022 olymics to be fair. Better coached, players all have roles that they've been playing in for months/years, bigger samples.

 

[cave troll]

There is bad exemples aswell but you are only focusing on the good ones.

Not a single OHL team would be good enough to play in Liiga. Juniors have less experiance and smaller and most of the players in OHL will never be good enough to play in Liiga.

Rantanen, Laine, Aho, Heiskanen....lets ignore them, right?


Because its still higher level than OHL. And you are forgetting Worlds.

Also he had 7 points in Liiga playoffs.


And what makes u think that Slaf would not dominate in OHL?

After Rantanen played with men he was deemed not ready by his NHL team. Ended up in AHL, and being developed year by year into a player he is now. Aho was a 2nd round pick and nobody was writing stuff you write about Slafkofsky. Same apllies to Lehkonen who outscored Slafkofsky pretty soundly at the same age. Nobody was pointing at Aho and Lehki saying those two are real deal, playing vs men. Pick them in Top 5.
Laine? What about him? He was twice the player Slafkofsky is when he was 18. Where do you put him now after 6 NHL seasons? World top class player or a good winger who never performed like he was supposed to?

I was writing about No2, No3 and No4 pick who performed vs men and came to NHL as totally undeveloped players, so what good did them playing vs men?

Like I sad before, I don't doubt Slafkovsky's talent but writing stuff like he needs to be No1 cause of Olympics and his playing vs men in Finland is nonsense.
Lots of people are bashing Wright saying he underperformed, but he still outscored whole 2022 draft class in W, O & Q. That means the whole draft class was crippled by covid in 2020/21. Especially the OHL which was cancelled. In the end, the No1 pick will be resolved between 2 players. Wright and Cooley.

 

[Takurcitee]

Slafkovsky seems to have developed just fine during his 3 years with TPS. Probably would get more ice time and opportunity next season with them.

I don't really buy this excuse. Is TPS coach telling Slafkovsky "Juraj, don't score. We play defensive style, so you're not allowed to score points."
Playing "defensive style" didn't stop Markus Nurmi from scoring 19 points in 18 games and getting an NHL contract with Preds. Or Mikael Pyyhtiä from scoring 21 goals during regular season and getting an NHL contract with Blue Jackets.

It's not excuse i was just saying why he should go to ahl next season

 

[Hisch13r]

It's not excuse i was just saying why he should go to ahl next season

Yup. More control and a full year on NA ice

 

[Takurcitee]

Yup. More control and a full year on NA ice

Also more scoring league

Compared to Liiga where most games got like 2-3 goals in game in playoffs