LW Arthur Kaliyev (2019, 33rd, LAK)

[BondraTime]

That might have been a bit of an overstatement worst case scenario is he isn’t good enough for the NHL, same as every prospect.

2nd line 25/25 scorer is also very, very far from his worst case NHL scenario

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

2nd line 25/25 scorer is also very, very far from his worst case NHL scenario

I don’t see him making it as a 30 point energy player though. If he’s going to make the show he’s gonna have to put up points. Boom or bust player in my opinion.

 

[McDNicks17]

If his ceiling was this high and he didn’t have such a low floor, he’d be a top 3 pick. The “bust” half of the “boom or bust” equation is why he might be available to a team outside of the top ten. Same goes for Caufield’s size. And also Newhook’s quality of competition. Prospects outside of the consensus top five or ten are going to have some warts. Risk averse teams will have “safer” prospects like McMichael they can opt for instead.

I think this take is way off. Saying Kaliyev is a top3 talent, but it's his weaknesses that are keeping outside the top10 is pretty strange.

He's there because of his strengths, as arguably the third best winger in the draft, with a slew of top-end centers ahead of him.

 

[rt]

I think this take is way off. Saying Kaliyev is a top3 talent, but it's his weaknesses that are keeping outside the top10 is pretty strange.

He's there because of his strengths, as arguably the third best winger in the draft, with a slew of top-end centers ahead of him.

Podkolzin is the consensus #3 and is a winger.

 

[McDNicks17]

Podkolzin is the consensus #3 and is a winger.

He's a much more complete prospect both offensively and defensively. I'm not sure I see your point.

 

[Josepho]

just gonna casually drop by and mention that these are the only u18 ohl players since 2000 to score 50+ goals

 

[DeagleJenkins]

just gonna casually drop by and mention that these are the only u18 ohl players since 2000 to score 50+ goals

good list to be on.

 

[AmericanDream]

just gonna casually drop by and mention that these are the only u18 ohl players since 2000 to score 50+ goals

in before the "he is -13" lol....

 

[rt]

He's a much more complete prospect both offensively and defensively. I'm not sure I see your point.

Haha. That was my point. I think we’re agreeing with each other from different angles.

 

[57special]

Look at his PIM! Clearly a pantywaist, and should move down to the 2nd round!

 

[McDNicks17]

Haha. That was my point. I think we’re agreeing with each other from different angles.

I guess it’s just a difference in philosophy.

It’s a little strange to basically start everyone equal and move players back because of weaknesses rather than just ranking players on what they can do to me.

 

[rt]

just gonna casually drop by and mention that these are the only u18 ohl players since 2000 to score 50+ goals

Even if you bump that up to U19 instead of U18, he’s still 8th since 03/04. Which is extra impressive given how young he is for his draft year.

 

[mphmiles]

just gonna casually drop by and mention that these are the only u18 ohl players since 2000 to score 50+ goals

Even if you go down to players that scored 44 or more goals, the list is still really impressive, other than Yakupov.

-Yakupov
-Strome (The other part of the McDavid/Debrincat line in Erie)
-Seguin
-Suzuki
-Marner
-Fabbri (Was looking like a hell of a prospect until injuries badly slowed his growth)
-Taylor Hall
-McDavid
-Owen Tippett

So yeah, pretty excellent company to put yourself in.

 

[slumpy43]

Another impressive aspect is that he made it without much of a supporting cast. Debrincat had McDavid and Strome on his team.

 

[rt]

Another impressive aspect is that he made it without much of a supporting cast. Debrincat had McDavid and Strome on his team.

Skinner had another 90pt player and two 80+ pt players on his team too. Kaliyev has zero 80pt players. DeBrincat didn’t even lead his team in scoring. He was third. Kaliyev is way ahead of his teammates in production. The other guys on the list are 1st overall picks so not even gonna look it up. Lol.

 

[AmericanDream]

question - would you take Jason Robertson in the first round seeing how he played this year???

those saying Kaliyev has his problems, namely skating and compete level, Robertson had the same question marks as well as his skating was considered poor and though his compete level wasn't really questioned, lack of physicality and effectively using his size has been said...players do improve/evolve.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

question - would you take Jason Robertson in the first round seeing how he played this year???

those saying Kaliyev has his problems, namely skating and compete level, Robertson had the same question marks as well as his skating was considered poor and though his compete level wasn't really questioned, lack of physicality and effectively using his size has been said...players do improve/evolve.

Towards the end of that first round.

Thats not a bad comparison. Like Kaliyev, I think Robertson's skating is a lot better than it gets credit for being.

 

[AmericanDream]

Towards the end of that first round.

Thats not a bad comparison. Like Kaliyev, I think Robertson's skating is a lot better than it gets credit for being.

I would agree as well - a case could be made for JRob to go anywhere between 20-31...which is my point, teams that focus solely on what a player lacks at 17 have a chance at missing out on what they truly will become at 18/19 plus. It is good to be aware of flaws/issues/concerns - that is what interviewing is for with attitude concerns, as well as trusting your eyes and your scouts on what they see on a regular basis. I think Kaliyev gets around out there just fine, his skating seems to get overblown on here too. He can work on his skating like Robertson has, which has improved since last year.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I would agree as well - a case could be made for JRob to go anywhere between 20-31...which is my point, teams that focus solely on what a player lacks at 17 have a chance at missing out on what they truly will become at 18/19 plus. It is good to be aware of flaws/issues/concerns - that is what interviewing is for with attitude concerns, as well as trusting your eyes and your scouts on what they see on a regular basis. I think Kaliyev gets around out there just fine, his skating seems to get overblown on here too. He can work on his skating like Robertson has, which has improved since last year.

I've read a lot about how Robertson is a bad skater. I expected him to lug his way around the ice and struggle to keep up with the play the way its talked about. I don't even come close to seeing bad skating. He's not a speedy player and lacks the gear to go around players, but I think his skating is going to be league average for the NHL.

 

[AmericanDream]

I've read a lot about how Robertson is a bad skater. I expected him to lug his way around the ice and struggle to keep up with the play. I don't see it. I was surprised that I wasn't able to even see bits and pieces of this bad skating. He's not a speedy player and lacks the gear to go around players, but I think his skating is going to be league average for the NHL.

yeah, we heard the same stuff about Strome when the Hawks traded for him, just a bad skater - but once we saw the kid it was apparent he wasn't bad, just a bit awkward stride/taller kid still growing - plus he fatigued too easily, so his overall issue isn't just skating, it is working on conditioning and getting a quicker stride going...

Robertson definitely looks like he can keep up just fine at the NHL level with skating, if freaking Lucic can hold a job this kid will do just fine for Dallas...Kaliyev and his skating IMO is no worse off than Robertson's skating is right now - which like you said isn't bad at all. I am sure a smart GM out there will see this as well and nab Kaliyev well into the first round and not allow him to drop like Robertson did despite putting up big numbers in his draft year.

 

[TheProspectNetwork]

yeah, we heard the same stuff about Strome when the Hawks traded for him, just a bad skater - but once we saw the kid it was apparent he wasn't bad, just a bit awkward stride/taller kid still growing - plus he fatigued too easily, so his overall issue isn't just skating, it is working on conditioning and getting a quicker stride going...

Robertson definitely looks like he can keep up just fine at the NHL level with skating, if freaking Lucic can hold a job this kid will do just fine for Dallas...Kaliyev and his skating IMO is no worse off than Robertson's skating is right now - which like you said isn't bad at all. I am sure a smart GM out there will see this as well and nab Kaliyev well into the first round and not allow him to drop like Robertson did despite putting up big numbers in his draft year.

I think we need to establish a fine line between how a skater "looks" and how they actually use their skating effectively. Kaliyev doesn't look like a good skater but he uses his skating (often deceptively) to create chances. Whereas other players look like fantastic skaters but never seem to use it properly. So in reality are those players actually good skaters? Sometimes its not always about just pure speed or acceleration but about how you use your skating ability effectively.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I've read a lot about how Robertson is a bad skater. I expected him to lug his way around the ice and struggle to keep up with the play the way its talked about. I don't even come close to seeing bad skating. He's not a speedy player and lacks the gear to go around players, but I think his skating is going to be league average for the NHL.

He was a brutal skater when he was drafted and has done a lot to improve it since then. I agree with this comparison and I’ve compared the two a couple times. Skating isn’t just genetics it’s something that can be worked on and brought up to league average. Jamie Benn was a horrible skater when he was drafted worked hard on it and now he can keep up.

 

[Jacob]

His skating doesn't look like a deterrent to me. I mean, if he was 5'10" with his current skating ability I'd be concerned but for his size I don't think it's a huge problem.

 

[mphmiles]

He was a brutal skater when he was drafted and has done a lot to improve it since then. I agree with this comparison and I’ve compared the two a couple times. Skating isn’t just genetics it’s something that can be worked on and brought up to league average. Jamie Benn was a horrible skater when he was drafted worked hard on it and now he can keep up.

I've read that in this last offseason Robertson went all-in on the power edge system that McDavid and the Hughes brothers have been doing for a long time, and improving his strength and conditioning big time as well. Seems like a great recipe for improving skating.

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

I've read that in this last offseason Robertson went all-in on the power edge system that McDavid and the Hughes brothers have been doing for a long time, and improving his strength and conditioning big time as well. Seems like a great recipe for improving skating.

Yes he trained with former NHLer Gary Roberts. Also worked on his diet and conditioning as Robertson was out of shape last season.