Post-Game Talk: Lumbering Jets lose 2-1 in OT

[AKAChip]

To be fair, that season ended 18 months ago, that's half of three years.

But the rest of your post is agreeable.

Cheerfully withdrawn

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

This team? Perhaps that team.

This team will be that team soon. I actually think this team will be better than that team when Niku and Heinola are full time, when Pionk and Morrissey are paired full time, when Samburg joins the mix, and when Ehlers, LAine, Connors, Roslo, Ves, and a few other take that next step that one should expect from young developing prospects.

 

[AKAChip]

This team will be that team soon. I actually think this team will be better than that team when Niku and Heinola are full time, when Pionk and Morrissey are paired full time, when Samburg joins the mix, and when Ehlers, LAine, Connors, Roslo, Ves, and a few other take that next step that one should expect from young developing prospects.

I respect your optimism.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

That was now three years ago and the team is trending downwards. Players like Scheifele who at one point was one of the rising stars in the league, are stagnating when they should be in the middle of their primes. This is the NHL, how many seasons do you think coaches should get based on the laurels of one (admittedly great) season?

The only trend here is we are one of the youngest teams in the league evolving. Three years ago we were older, and much much more veteran savvy team, we are nothing like that today.

We act like this team will be void of improving which is pure mind numbing to me.

We have some excellent prospects in the wings that could easily be full timers in less than 2 seasons. Our core is years away from their best hockey.

Its absurd to act like these things are static and void of improvement .

The EXACT SAME narrative was used by the same people during the years leading up to our 114 point season. The amount of bashing that occurred leading up to that season was comical.

The results aren't happening as quick as some expect and that has to be coaching. They were wrong, and they will be wrong again. Achieving a 114 point season is not a path that every team follows, as a matter a fact, its a novelty only experienced by the top teams in the league, We did it once which is one more time than over half the league, yet we act like that was just an easy peasy thing to do and failure to repeat is a coaching thing.

 

[AKAChip]

The only trend here is we are one of the youngest teams in the league evolving. Three years ago we were older, and much much more veteran savvy team, we are nothing like that today.

We act like this team will be void of improving which is pure mind numbing to me.

We have some excellent prospects in the wings that could easily be full timers in less than 2 seasons. Our core is years away from their best hockey.

Its absurd to act like these things are static and void of improvement .

The EXACT SAME narrative was used by the same people during the years leading up to our 114 point season. The amount of bashing that occurred leading up to that season was comical.

The results aren't happening as quick as some expect and that has to be coaching. They were wrong, and they will be wrong again. Achieving a 114 point season is not a path that every team follows, as a matter a fact, its a novelty only experienced by the top teams in the league, We did it once which is one more time than over half the league, yet we act like that was just an easy peasy thing to do.

I like our prospects as much as the next guy but the Jets’ system is ranked near the bottom of the list by most rankings. Not saying Heinola or Niku or Vesa won’t be very good or special, just that most other teams have either more high end prospects or more prospects with higher ceilings.
I think the fundamental difference between you and I and our thought process here is that you see the 114 point season as a harbinger of things to come, even if the team right now and over the next few seasons is and will be vastly different than that team, while I see it as catching lightning in a bottle and an anomaly when looking at Maurice’s overall body of work.
And no, I’m not saying the team is “void of improving”, just that it’s pretty clear to most that Maurice is too stubborn to put his players in the optimal position to succeed and he is historically not a particularly good coach at cultivating young talent, which is clearly what is needed here seeing as the only important players on this team over 28 are Wheeler and Little assuming Byfuglien is gone forever.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The only trend here is we are one of the youngest teams in the league evolving. Three years ago we were older, and much much more veteran savvy team, we are nothing like that today.

We act like this team will be void of improving which is pure mind numbing to me.

We have some excellent prospects in the wings that could easily be full timers in less than 2 seasons. Our core is years away from their best hockey.

Its absurd to act like these things are static and void of improvement .

The EXACT SAME narrative was used by the same people during the years leading up to our 114 point season. The amount of bashing that occurred leading up to that season was comical.

The results aren't happening as quick as some expect and that has to be coaching. They were wrong, and they will be wrong again. Achieving a 114 point season is not a path that every team follows, as a matter a fact, its a novelty only experienced by the top teams in the league, We did it once which is one more time than over half the league, yet we act like that was just an easy peasy thing to do and failure to repeat is a coaching thing.

I love that our team is still young and is going to continue to get better, but some of our players have stepped up their games this year (Ehlers, Laine, Roslovic) and some have taken a step back (Scheif, Wheeler), but overall, our team is floundering badly.

You don't agree that there are a lot of little things that could be done or at least attempted to make us a better team now and later in the season? Things that other teams are doing to absolutely maximize what they have?

Why not try to get better with what we have? What is the harm?

Everyone knows that we can't play our first line 24 mins per night because they can't sustain it. Everyone knows that CSW isn't a good line, let alone a good first line. Everyone knows that the team as a whole could very likely benefit from splitting up 55 and 26.

There are a lot of things that we could be doing to improve, or at least SEE if they help. Why would anyone be adverse to attempting to make the most of what we have?

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I respect your optimism.

Thanks, I was that optimistic in 2016, when the bashing of this team was at an absurd ridiculous level around here.

There was a group of us on here that understood where we were heading, could see the trees from the forest, but every bump along that route to a conference finals had the same posters attacking the exact same things on this team, every loss, the same crap over and over.

Tried to reason that better days were ahead, we were called delusional, fanboys drinking the kool aid, Chevy and Maurice huggers that couldn't see their short comings. Tried to explain its a process and losing is part of that, that we will evolve, nope they wanted nothing to do with that.

Many crapped all over this team during those days, only to act like they were fully supportive when the team became the top team in the league.

How soon they forget, right back to the old ways.

We had the last laugh then and I am fully confident I will be reminding several posters around here they were wrong in the not to far future when this team rises again.

Our core is getting locked up and its one of the best in the league. If you played this game you understand the impact of D has on the overall results. We are going through a pretty massive change on the back end and to pretend that wont have an impact is silly and purely ignorant.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree with you on a lot of topics but essentially every metric that exists shows that Chiarot is at BEST a bottom pair guy and likely not even good enough to be that.

I've seen metrics that show him to be weak. In fact really weak. And then I look at other Dmen playing bottom 4 for other teams and see they are even worse. I think we sometimes set the bar a little too high. Playing 2nd pair last year, with Buff, I think he was actually pretty good.

This is not something I am going to argue too strongly though. We agree he is not great. I posted his scoring last night, not to suggest we lost a good Dman but just because I wish him well in his future endeavors.

 

[Howard Chuck]

Thanks, I was that optimistic in 2016, when the bashing of this team was at an absurd ridiculous level around here.

There was a group of us on here that understood where we were heading, could see the trees from the forest, but every bump along that route to a conference finals had the same posters attacking the exact same things on this team, every loss, the same crap over and over.

Tried to reason that better days were ahead, we were called delusional, fanboys drinking the kool aid, Chevy and Maurice huggers that couldn't see their short comings. Tried to explain its a process and losing is part of that, that we will evolve, nope they wanted nothing to do with that. Lost crapped all over this team during those days, only to act like they were fully supportive when the team became the top team in the league,

How soon they forget, right back to the old ways.

We had the last laugh then and I am fully confident I will be reminding several posters around here they were wrong in the not to far future when this team rises again.

Our core is getting locked up and its one of the best in the league. If you played this game you understand the impact of D has on the overall results. We are going through a pretty massive change on the back end and to pretend that wont have an impact is silly and purely ignorant.

I was extremely optimistic in 2016 and 2017, It all started to loose it's luster about half way through 2018 for me.

I was right there with you up to about January of last year, and even then I was pretty optimistic. And having said that, I still am very high on our team. We have a great group currently, and some possibly great players coming up soon.

But I don't like how we are resting on our laurels as if we can't try things to see if we can get better.

 

[AKAChip]

Thanks, I was that optimistic in 2016, when the bashing of this team was at an absurd ridiculous level around here.

There was a group of us on here that understood where we were heading, could see the trees from the forest, but every bump along that route to a conference finals had the same posters attacking the exact same things on this team, every loss, the same crap over and over.

Tried to reason that better days were ahead, we were called delusional, fanboys drinking the kool aid, Chevy and Maurice huggers that couldn't see their short comings. Tried to explain its a process and losing is part of that, that we will evolve, nope they wanted nothing to do with that.

Many crapped all over this team during those days, only to act like they were fully supportive when the team became the top team in the league.

How soon they forget, right back to the old ways.

We had the last laugh then and I am fully confident I will be reminding several posters around here they were wrong in the not to far future when this team rises again.

Our core is getting locked up and its one of the best in the league. If you played this game you understand the impact of D has on the overall results. We are going through a pretty massive change on the back end and to pretend that wont have an impact is silly and purely ignorant.

No one is discounting the negative effect that the personnel on D is having. But believe it or not, the forwards are playing terribly as well. You were so confident in 2016 that the team was headed in the right direction and sure to be a perennial powerhouse and I guess you were right. The team was a powerhouse for exactly one season and now you’re gloating that you were right all along and those that “don’t play the game” have no clue about how development curves work. This team has had more disappointing seasons than good ones since 2016, so perhaps those who were concerned then should be the ones gloating. And for the record, I was exceedingly optimistic about the team’s future in 2016.

 

[Howard Chuck]

I suppose some people might resent having their words twisted. All done for humour though.

Humor makes the world go round.

Correcting spelling and grammar, not so much though.....

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I was extremely optimistic in 2016 and 2017, It all started to loose it's luster about half way through 2018 for me.

I was right there with you up to about January of last year, and even then I was pretty optimistic. And having said that, I still am very high on our team. We have a great group currently, and some possibly great players coming up soon.

But I don't like how we are resting on our laurels as if we can't try things to see if we can get better.

Not arguing that. There will always be aspects of coaching that I do not agree with, and the lack or desire to switch Wheeler and Scheif being at the top of that list.

But lets be real here. How much change is not enough for this team to experience in a season. This season, outside of Wheeler and Scheif, is a massive plethora of new things. We had a 19 year old and an 18 year old in the lineup, we have several new dman, we have a completely new 4rth line.

To act like we are not trying some new things here is not true. Every team's fanbase has issues with their current coaching, we are not unique.

 

[GNP]

It would be a very good idea for GM's and coaches not to read these comments.

 

[DannyGallivan]

We have some excellent prospects in the wings that could easily be full timers in less than 2 seasons. Our core is years away from their best hockey.

Its absurd to act like these things are static and void of improvement .

Since we're being judgmental, it's equally as absurd to ASSUME that all these pieces will fall together or live up to their full potential. Will there be any Burmistrovs in the bunch? Will Vesey reverse his slide? We have to actually see these players in more than a handful of NHL games before we can say how well they will do.

I have my fingers crossed, but I don't think all the pieces are in our system yet. Perhaps after this season, with great drafting opportunities and perhaps some money available to sign an important missing piece or two, we'll begin a steady surge again. I'm hopeful but certainly not overconfident.

 

[Spock]

Humor makes the world go round.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

Since we're being judgmental, it's equally as absurd to ASSUME that all these pieces will fall together or live up to their full potential. Will there be any Burmistrovs in the bunch? Will Vesey reverse his slide? We have to actually see these players in more than a handful of NHL games before we can say how well they will do.

I have my fingers crossed, but I don't think all the pieces are in our system yet. Perhaps after this season, with great drafting opportunities and perhaps some money available to sign an important missing piece or two, we'll begin a steady surge again. I'm hopeful but certainly not overconfident.

Have you seen enough of Scheif, Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey, Helly, Wheeler and Little to believe our window is closed and we will not compete for a cup with them as our core, through the length of their careers?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Not arguing that. There will always be aspects of coaching that I do not agree with, and the lack or desire to switch Wheeler and Scheif being at the top of that list.

But lets be real here. How much change is not enough for this team to experience in a season. This season, outside of Wheeler and Scheif, is a massive plethora of new things. We had a 19 year old and an 18 year old in the lineup, we have several new dman, we have a completely new 4rth line.

To act like we are not trying some new things here is not true. Every team's fanbase has issues with their current coaching, we are not unique.

I agree with you that we have some changes that could adversely affect us.

Player load management and creating effective lines are probably my biggest issues. Fixing those two things has the potential to turn us into a pretty good team. We can do that, and most people here and in the hockey world agree it needs to be looked at, but we don't and it's frustrating to a lot of us.

 

[DannyGallivan]

View attachment 274021

 

[LucianoBorsato]

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[DannyGallivan]

Have you seen enough of Scheif, Ehlers, Connor, Morrissey, Helly, Wheeler and Little to believe our window is closed and we will not compete for a cup with them as our core, through the length of their careers?

I was speaking more of the up and comers you mentioned, such as Niku, Samburg, Vesey. Other than Heinola, who's audition has still been waaaaaay too short to jump to conclusions, I am still waiting to be impressed by anybody.

But with a very good second line center and at least two more stalwart defensemen, aaaaaaand a return to form from Scheifele, Wheeler and company, I think we "could" be back in contention very soon. But I tend to agree with those who say that a coaching change may be necessary as well.

Edit: Perhaps it's time to give Jansen Harkins a look. Apparently he had a big week, and I don't recall him in any regular season games yet.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I agree with you that we have some changes that could adversely affect us.

Player load management and creating effective lines are probably my biggest issues. Fixing those two things has the potential to turn us into a pretty good team. We can do that, and most people here and in the hockey world agree it needs to be looked at, but we don't and it's frustrating to a lot of us.

But here is the thing, most cringed at keeping Laine and Little together, yet last night we saw that combo excel, and in essence we created an actual second line that could rival our first line. I was pumped watching them own the OZone last night, thought to myself, man this could get us going in the right direction if this continues to work.

Then the harsh reality of this season set in, which encapsulates a freak accident to add to the other freak accidents that were added to the weird holdout of our best Dman, which added to what is becoming a very abnormal season.

This is not going to get addressed through coaching, or line changes. Maybe an exorcism is needed, or a witch doctor, but a coaching change will not alleviate that.

 

[Zhamnov5GoalGame]

One shift for ESL and CWR and then onto CSW and ERL.

Let me guess... for Maurice that one shift was the equivalent of testing to see if that works. No need to try it anymore

The timeout in OT to put an exhausted Wheeler out again was BEYOND dumb.

 

[Howard Chuck]

But here is the thing, most cringed at keeping Laine and Little together, yet last night we saw that combo excel, and in essence we created an actual second line that could rival our first line. I was pumped watching them own the OZone last night, thought to myself, man this could get us going in the right direction if this continues to work.

Then the harsh reality of this season set in, which encapsulates a freak accident to add to the other freak accidents that were added to the weird holdout of our best Dman, which added to what is becoming a very abnormal season.

This is not going to get addressed through coaching, or line changes. Maybe an exorcism is needed, or a witch doctor, but a coaching change will not alleviate that.

I agree again. It took a long time to get the second line to work, and unfortunately we didn't get to see it for long. Hopefully Roslovic is given a try there. Him and Ehlers looked great together although Roslovic was playing wing.

We can't do anything about an injury, but we can try things. Why wait to keep the first line under 20 mins/game? Why wait to see what putting Wheeler on the second line can do?

I do understand what you're saying I believe, I just don't know what we gain by not trying to improve right now?

 

[Howard Chuck]

One shift for ESL and CWR and then onto CSW and ERL.

Let me guess... for Maurice that one shift was the equivalent of testing to see if that works. No need to try it anymore

The timeout in OT to put an exhausted Wheeler out again was BEYOND dumb.

And a slap in the face of everyone else on the team.

 

[MrBoJangelz71]

I was speaking more of the up and comers you mentioned, such as Niku, Samburg, Vesey. Other than Heinola, who's audition has still been waaaaaay too short to jump to conclusions, I am still waiting to be impressed by anybody.

But with a very good second line center and at least two more stalwart defensemen, aaaaaaand a return to form from Scheifele, Wheeler and company, I think we "could" be back in contention very soon. But a tend to agree with those who say that a coaching change may be necessary as well.

Edit: Perhaps it's time to give Jansen Harkins a look. Apparently he had a big week, and I don't recall him in any regular season games yet.

There may come a time to change coaching. I am a big Raptors fan, and saw a coach lose his job after being named coach of the year, which led to a title. But one will always ask, could the Raps have won with Casey having Kawhi as his main man, possibly so.

This current roster, this current situation is not getting fixed by coaching. It needs time to heal, time to develop and time to replace the skill we lost on the back end. Next season we have cap space, BUff situation should be off the books, and we will have another year of developing a very young core.

If next season we are going through the same pains, I have no problem saying good bye to Maurice, but by then we will have a better understanding the short comings of his coaching. This season its garbage in garbage out. You cannot make any sensible assessments of coaching under our current set of circumstances.