Proposal: Lucic for Toffoli

[guzzy]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

He is on pace for 22 goals this year. He is providing leadership this team needed after Gio. I wouldn't trade the first and Zary for toffoli let alone throw in Lucic.

There is no doubt he is overpaid but he is still better than Neal (who is on waivers again).

 

[Djp]

I would say that the Flames probably decline but Lucic don't help the value either so there is that too. Tell me with a straight face that Lucic has trade value cause he is having a "good" year?

Lucic has negative value.

Toffoli isn’t getting one 1st.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

the difference between Lucic and Toffoli is not a 1st and a prospect

 

[Choralone]

They belong together.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Yeah no, absolutely not. How about you just keep Toffoli and we'll do Lucic for Anderson straight up? Montreal gets almost identical production but rids themselves of the contract after next year.

Anderson isn’t being dealt and if he somehow end up on the trade block, it won’t be for Lucic

 

[Baksfamous112]

He’s your Drouin. And you’ve probably noticed less noise on Drouin being negative value the closer he gets to that last year of his contract.

maybe suggest a Drouin for Lucic trade. Same term and close AAV.

In terms of on-ice value, Lucic is closer to a playoff Girard, which is borderline negative

 

[Habs Halifax]

I agree they both have negative value. But that negative value isn’t severe.

Cary Price has severe negative value. Skinner has severe negative value. Vlasic in San Jose has severe negative value.

lucic has minor negative value. Certainly not two first round picks of negative value. That’s a gross overstatement of his value. This OP is way off base. That’s Reality.

Lucic don't have minor negative value. He's AAV is at least twice at more as what he would get as a UFA this summer. Nice try but this package is not far off in value if Lucic is part of it.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Please show me a 35 point player who will also lead the team in hits that signs as a ufa for 2-3 million.

I agree that Lucic is overpaid, but his cap hit for the Flames is only 5.25 for 1.5 years. His actual salary owed is less than $4 million per year.

Lucic brings exactly what every team needs for the playoffs.

Lucic as a UFA this summer would have a hard time getting $2-$3M AAV. He's a good physical winger but his cap hit is a problem. There is no way to spin this in either direction... he is a negative contract with that cap hit.

I repeat. Flames probably decline but the value in this trade is not horrible if Lucic is involved.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lucic has negative value.

Toffoli isn’t getting one 1st.

Lucic has better numbers with the Flames than the Oilers yes but he is nowhere near his cap hit. As a UFA this summer, he would have a hard time getting $2M-$3M range AAV for any term. So yeah, we agree he is a negative value.

What is Toffoli worth? Hard to guess on that. Is it worth more than what the Canucks paid? I say yes cause he comes with term with a good AAV and is a solid top 6F. Then when you consider Lucic is coming the other way with that cap hit, I don't think that trade value is horrible.

But we probably agree the Flames say no. Trading futures like that is a tough decision

 

[Kahvi]

Once again, value is relative. Lucic's value to the Flames is positive (even if it's not much), but his value to other teams can easily be negative, depending on the team. No team is going to trade for him, Flames are not gonna give up assets to get rid of him.

 

[Dack]

Zary has top 6 potential. Likely not top line potential but he's got ~55 point upside.

A lot of people in here are judging his AHL statline. Where he plays on the 3rd line and PP2 because he missed the start of the season with an injury and Stockton already had established chemistry upon his return.

I don't think any Flames fan would make this trade.

 

[ole ole]

Not many Flames fans are "pumping up Lucic" to trade him, I have not seen a single Flames fan point out all of Lucics intangibles to pump him up, in this thread alone the few people who have spoken about Lucic from the Flames side have said they would prefer keeping him, his "AAV" doesn't bother us, we are not trying to SELL Lucic, y'all are TRYING to get him FROM us, get it through your heads, a Habs fan started this thread ASKING for Lucic, we didn't offer him up

Y'all are wrong .Hab fans want nothing to do with Lucic with the exception of one and he really doesn't want him either.

 

[LeafChief]

Why would Calgary do this? Lucic is on pace for 20 goals and they have to give up a 1st and Zary too?

 

[ole ole]

Zary has top 6 potential. Likely not top line potential but he's got ~55 point upside.

A lot of people in here are judging his AHL statline. Where he plays on the 3rd line and PP2 because he missed the start of the season with an injury and Stockton already had established chemistry upon his return.

I don't think any Flames fan would make this trade.

That i can understand from a Flames point of view but do you think that most Flame fans wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli?

 

[Dack]

That i can understand from a Flames point of view but do you think that most Flame fans wouldn't trade Lucic straight up for Toffoli?

I think most would but it's not being offered. Also, Lucic is playing well and is a fan favorite so there's no push to get him out of here right now. He may be traded in the offseason with the upcoming cap crunch but right now he's a good 3rd liner for us.

 

[DFF]

Lucic has negative TRADE value because of his contract

For the Flames, he is somewhat acceptable. He only has one year left after this year anyway. They don’t really need to trade him.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

Habs won't trade Toffoli to Calgary if Flames offer Lucic in the deal.

If Habs dont have to trade Toffoli, very decent deal for that kind of player. So Toffoli would be deal if the other team give a bit more of his real value.

 

[Sparky93]

To be quite honest, taking the Habs production and cap hits into consideration, it's very hard to have a serious conversation about Lucic having negative value because he would very much help that team. Last year Lucic would've been 7th in scoring, 6th in goals. This year 4th in scoring, 1st in goals, while being the 5th highest paid, current roster player. That doesn't count Price or Suzuki's extension, which would push him to the 7th highest roster player. Using the Habs team as a base, Lucic is being paid pretty much what he should be, by that teams standard.

 

[DaPhazz]

No Lucic for me

 

[DFF]

To be quite honest, taking the Habs production and cap hits into consideration, it's very hard to have a serious conversation about Lucic having negative value because he would very much help that team. Last year Lucic would've been 7th in scoring, 6th in goals. This year 4th in scoring, 1st in goals, while being the 5th highest paid, current roster player. That doesn't count Price or Suzuki's extension, which would push him to the 7th highest roster player. Using the Habs team as a base, Lucic is being paid pretty much what he should be, by that teams standard.

Good point
Lucic would be the leading goal scorer on the Habs lol

 

[Mike Dukarm]

To be quite honest, taking the Habs production and cap hits into consideration, it's very hard to have a serious conversation about Lucic having negative value because he would very much help that team. Last year Lucic would've been 7th in scoring, 6th in goals. This year 4th in scoring, 1st in goals, while being the 5th highest paid, current roster player. That doesn't count Price or Suzuki's extension, which would push him to the 7th highest roster player. Using the Habs team as a base, Lucic is being paid pretty much what he should be, by that teams standard.

Lucic wouldnt have those stats if he was playing at Montreal since the beginning of the season.

Lucic have minus value... If he have some positive value please trade him right now

 

[Baksfamous112]

Good point
Lucic would be the leading goal scorer on the Habs lol

Which is supposed to be a positive for a team looking to tank? What’s your angle here?

 

[Sparky93]

Lucic wouldnt have those stats if he was playing at Montreal since the beginning of the season.

Lucic have minus value... If he have some positive value please trade him right now

Well thats just sad because he's achieved that playing the bulk of the year on the 4th line and PP2.

 

[Habs Halifax]

the difference between Lucic and Toffoli is not a 1st and a prospect

That may be true but we are not looking to trade Toffoli for a negative contract and meh futures. So if Lucic is involved and we are not getting any additional assets on top of what Toffoli is worth, we are not even interested.

Toffoli as a pending UFA got a 2nd and B+ prospect who was putting up well over a pt/game in the NCAA at the time of the trade. Toffoli is now on a value contract as a good top 6F and Lucic is indeed a negative value contract.

How about this trade for Bruins... DeBrusk for Lucic and a 2nd rounder. See how you like that one

 

[DFF]

Which is supposed to be a positive for a team looking to tank? What’s your angle here?

No Angle, just an observation

are you saying now that Lucic is too good for the Habs? Lol