Proposal: Lucic for Toffoli

[SakuKoivu11]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

where do we sign?

 

[BlueSeal]

How does this help the Flames?

 

[SensFactor]

I wouldn't even do Conor Zary for Toffoli straight up

 

[TBF1972]

there will be a fan base hugely disappointed at the trade deadline. guaranteed.

 

[Moose Head]

Doesn’t Lucic still have a NMC? Zero chance he would waive for Montreal. That would be like Thearen Fluery waiving to play for the Oilers in the 90s.

Actually he almost signed with the Habs when he was an UFA.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

If a 20YO, 2-years removed from the draft is producing at a 0.5 clip in the AHL is considered a 1C potential, I think you're being a bit delusional here.

Zary is a prospect in the same realm of Poehling (who won WCJ MVP at age 19 and had 4G in his NHL start if you include shootouts).

He's the type of prospect who may hit 2C in his prime years if all works out.
(I am not saying Poehling's current value is that; just doing a prospect value comparable at that age.)

2 years removed from the draft? He was drafted in 2020, there has only been 1 draft since then. He played 9 games in the AHL last year and had 7 points before being recalled to the WHL, he was also the clear driving force on that 1st line last year too. When sent to the W he was 6th in pts/g. This year he suffered an injury in the preseason and when he rejoined the team had a slow start. However, in his last 10 games he has 7 points and will likely keep rolling as he gets more ice time.

Your comparison to Poehling is a real jump to conclusion for a guy that has barely even gotten his feet wet in the pros. Zary has all the tools to be an excellent top 6 NHLer and a very good chance at it too.

If you don't think Zary has any potential then why are you trading for him? Real contradictory of you.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Are you f***ing high? Absolutely not.

 

[Whalers Fan]

Monahan for Toffoli. The Habs can flip Monahan for futures if so inclined.

Habs can just trade Toffoli for those futures. No need to deal for Monahan and his higher cap hit.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Bad for the flames in so many ways

 

[RationalExpectations]

Toffoli is a multiple times 20+ goal scorer, he was the main driver of MTL s offense last year, he was really appreciated in VAN, is under good contract for 2 more years after this one. If I look at Zucker as a comp, or any lesser forward at TDL, a 1st + good prospect is a good price for Toffoli, now add Lucic who is 2-3m overpaid thi seems like the upgrade from Addison to Zary. I don't see Zary (as was the cas with Pelletier) being a superstar in the NHL but he is a solid prospect.

Now on the opposite side, you could argue Toffoli was traded for a 2nd + prospect at the TDL 2 years ago showing GMs don't value him that much.

I would understand the Flames preferring to dump cap and not taking on Toffoli s salary or not doing this deal because they are higher on Zary than I am but I don't see the value being that far off.

 

[FSL KINGS]

See, this is where we disagree.

Toffoli being a sub-30YO 55-65pts winger (top 6 RS Fwd) with SC pedigree is something NHL GMs are known to go crazy for. (esp. with such a low caphit. 4.25 for a guy that produces at that level, 30G on your 1st/2nd line is great.) You mention term, but his contract expires at age 32 before the significant drop for FWDs.

Zary is likely a 3C, or an average 2C (in his peak years) IF, and its important to say that, IF he pans out.
Like you said, he hasn't played in the NHL yet.
(But it's HFB, so prospects are always touted much higher in value.)

That 1st is also likely to be a late one (20-32nd) and those are known to be flipped like candies around TDL.

So to get rid of Lucic's caphit to better afford your core players whilst gaining a top 6 guy for the next 3 years is quite favourable for the Flames.

I'm a fan of Toffoli. He is a solid wing. Not overly fast, decent on defense & can both finish & pass. He is a 30-40 point wing. If your team is deep enough to put Toffoli on a depth line with a good center he is capable of putting up 50-60 points. Running him with Suzuki & Caufield against other teams depth lines worked great. In the top six Toffoli isn't putting up 30 goals.

1st + is an unrealistic ask as Toffoli isn't a dominant top 6 option. He is still decent, but that doesn't get the same value.

 

[Big Empty]

I’d consider it a fair trade at best.

Zary/1st to offset the burden of taking on Lucic.

Zary/1st for Toffoli.

Pretty meh. I’m not a fan of Zary. I’d rather not take on Lucic obviously at his cap hit.

Toffoli could easily fetch a 1st+2nd. His contract is a steal. 4.25M for a right shot top 6 winger who scored 28 goals in 56 games last year. He’s on pace for 53 points on this flaming garbage edition of the Habs. He’s not damaged goods like Monahan.

The Habs are also in a position to retain to ease things for the acquiring team. They’ll get a monster return for Toff when the time is right.

Pass.

 

[Overrateprospects]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

Montreal runs with that deal regardless of Lucic’s history

 

[FameFlame069]

Get outta here, we wouldn't trade you Looch 1-1 for Toffoli, look elsewhere, Zary AND a 1st? LAUGHING my butt off, Toffoli wouldn't even touch the top 6 in Calgary, we'd need to lose two top 6 forwards for him to even get a sniff, he's not scoring 20+ goals here either, we're not paying premium assets for complimentary pieces please tell me your green dealer, I need this potent stuff you got buddy

 

[archangel2]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

I love it when we get trades when one of the key pieces the OP says--player X will just be bought out or flipped--flipped to who in this case

 

[RC51]

Lucic will NEVER be a hab, Hab fans HATE him he has proven to be a coward. He likes to hit and fight smaller men then him but when George Laraque chased him all around the rink and Lucic running away and then hiding behind his bench cowering with FEAR of GL then this is who Lucic is. He will never BE A HAB

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Hello everyone,

Looking at other threads, the premise of is based on the following assumptions:
- Toffoli's stand-alone value is around a 1st + a 2nd/decent prospect.
- Lucic's value is largely negative.
- Also, the Flames likely need something close to 5M extra for Tkachuk+Gaudreau's next contracts.
Brouwer is 1.5M; Pitlick gone is 1M (replaced by ELC); Cap increase 1M; and Offer below 1M.

Flames:
Tyler Toffoli @ 4.25M 3YL

Habs:
Lucic @ 5.25M 2YL
Flames 2022 1st round pick
Conor Zary

Needless to say, Lucic would not play in Mtl due to his history with the team. So he'd either be flipped or bought out.

Talk about a misleading thread title…

 

[Habs Halifax]

Tofolli doesn’t get a 1st and a recent 1st round pick who hasn’t yet played in the nhl.

given his term p/ cap hit he isn’t getting a 1st back.

I would say that the Flames probably decline but Lucic don't help the value either so there is that too. Tell me with a straight face that Lucic has trade value cause he is having a "good" year?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Doesn’t Lucic still have a NMC? Zero chance he would waive for Montreal. That would be like Thearen Fluery waiving to play for the Oilers in the 90s.

Your probably right that Lucic blocks it (8 team trade list) but it's not an impossible narrative cause Lucic is on record of saying that he considered signing in Montreal but choose McDavid and the Oilers. Something along the lines of he and his family discussed that option

 

[Habs Halifax]

You're saving $1M and adding another year onto the deal. Slow your roll a bit, bud. This trade has absolutely nothing to do with freeing up $ for Tkachuk and Gaudreau. If that was your goal, you'd be flipping Lucic or something else of high cap hit for not a lot of cap back.

In terms of value, Montreal would want something more back if they're taking on Lucic, even if you assume they'll buy him out or trade him. That is work they'd have to do or money they'd have to pay to facilitate a trade that helps Calgary.

It probably falls through but I agree, it's not a horrible value trade considering the Lucic anchor contract that is in play

 

[glenbuis]

How much of a homer do you have to be to think Lucic is going to waive for Montreal right now?

Wouldn't trade Zary straight up for Toffoli. And if you'd actually watched the Flames this year, you'd realize Lucic has been good. Still overpaid but no where near a desperate cap dump situation.

Monahan for Toffoli. The Habs can flip Monahan for futures if so inclined.

no need for that . i'd do gallagher straight up for monohan but not toffoli

 

[FameFlame069]

I would say that the Flames probably decline but Lucic don't help the value either so there is that too. Tell me with a straight face that Lucic has trade value cause he is having a "good" year?

You do realize that Lucic hasn't really had any bad seasons in Calgary and the only people who want to trade him are from other teams? Toffoli isn't worth his contract, keep him

 

[Habs Halifax]

You do realize that Lucic hasn't really had any bad seasons in Calgary and the only people who want to trade him are from other teams? Toffoli isn't worth his contract, keep him

I do realize it but he's not performing to his cap hit even if he is not having "bad seasons" with the Flames. Flames probably decline but it's not a horrible trade value considering Lucic's anchor contract at play.

Lucic's performing to a $3M AAV contract at best with the Flames.

 

[crazyfisherman]

Lucic has a role on this team and is playing well, so he doesn't cost à first to move rn. 2 first for Toffoli is a joke, 1 season where he start off hot then cooled off significantly doesnt mean hes a 55-65 pt guy

 

[glenbuis]

Habs can just trade Toffoli for those futures. No need to deal for Monahan and his higher cap hit.

so true . well said