Proposal: Lucic for Toffoli

[Ledge And Dairy]

Both Drouin and Lucic have glaring flaws. Drouin is very soft but skilled and Lucic is very physical but poor skating. So that's not a bad comparison but doubt either the Flames or Habs would be interested in that.

My point is that Lucic does not add value to that trade package and it's not bad value. Both Lucic and Drouin are negative contracts who are not performing to their cap hits. Reality. For as bad as Drouin has been in the gritty areas, he's actually been very consistent as a 50 pts forward. But even after having a decent season with the Habs this year, I would still not expect to trade him for value. That applies to the Lucic as well.

Lucic is a pretty fast skater fyi.

We are all aware that Lucic is not worth 5.25M, however Habs fans seem unaware that he is still a positive impact player on the ice. He is also a locker room leader, and for a team without a captain that is very important to have. The value Lucic provides to the Flames greatly outweighs the cost it would take to move his deal (at least until the offseason).

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

In terms of on-ice value, Lucic is closer to a playoff Girard, which is borderline negative

In terms of on ice value Lucic is most certainly a positive value player. He is not a 5.25M player but on the ice he is so far from negative

 

[HabsCode]

No Angle, just an observation

are you saying now that Lucic is too good for the Habs? Lol

No, I think his point is that Lucic production right now wouldn't bring much to the Habs by itself since the team is in a rebuild mode and will gadly take the top 3 pick they are trending towards instead of finishing 25th (Lucic might actually improve the team since most of the Habs player are out undefinitely and they could barely ice 3 NHL forward last game).

Hence why people are looking for more assets than Lucic for Toffoli. To be honest I understand the importance of Lucic with Calgary and I don't see why we should include him in a trade since he has more value for Calgary than his real value, he isn't just a cap dump to them.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

Lucic is a pretty fast skater fyi.

We are all aware that Lucic is not worth 5.25M, however Habs fans seem unaware that he is still a positive impact player on the ice. He is also a locker room leader, and for a team without a captain that is very important to have. The value Lucic provides to the Flames greatly outweighs the cost it would take to move his deal (at least until the offseason).

He can be the best locker room leader and a good player for is teamate on the ice... but when a guy play on the fourth line and he have a 5,25M$, this is just a negative value.

With that 5.25M$ you could take it and have a player more important to your team. One season of Lucic a 8 goals doesnt make him a positive value in the league.. how many years Lucic had one of the baddest contract of the league before his 8 goals this year...

Maybe a gentleman, a team player etc. but a bad value deal so a bad value for other GMs

But if Lucic is the player the Flames need to be succeful, im happy for them

 

[tkb81]

Pretty sure luch is on pace for 20 goals this year

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

He can be the best locker room leader and a good player for is teamate on the ice... but when a guy play on the fourth line and he have a 5,25M$, this is just a negative value.

With that 5.25M$ you could take it and have a player more important to your team. One season of Lucic a 8 goals doesnt make him a positive value in the league.. how many years Lucic had one of the baddest contract of the league before his 8 goals this year...

Maybe a gentleman, a team player etc. but a bad value deal so a bad value for other GMs

But if Lucic is the player the Flames need to be succeful, im happy for them

He currently plays on the 2nd line and has played a majority of the season on the 3rd line. Nobody is saying he isn't overpaid, we are saying that is is a positive impact player on ice, which is fact.

Why are you so hung up on his 8 goals this year, he's been a positive impact player every season in Calgary, this isn't a hard concept. We are not interest in paying your engrossed cost to take him when he would cost at most a 2nd to move this upcoming offseason. He will be an important player in Calgary's playoff run this year.

 

[FerklundCGY]

Lucic vs Toffoli at 5v5:

Goals/60:
Lucic: 1.13
Toffoli: 0.18

Points/60:
Lucic: 1.85
Toffoli: 1.26

You want the equivalent of 2 1sts so the Flames can get worse 5v5 offense just to save $1M in cap hit?

 

[DFF]

He can be the best locker room leader and a good player for is teamate on the ice... but when a guy play on the fourth line and he have a 5,25M$, this is just a negative value.

Does this mean Gallagher and Drouin are also negative value since they produce less for more $$$? I am not saying Lucic has a lot of value if any but the NHL is full of them. Surprisingly, Lucic is not the worst.

btw Lucic does not play on the fourth line. Although you can argue that on the Flames there is not much difference between 2nd/3rd and 4th line.

 

[Gritty]

I would love to acquire Toffoli, but not at the expense of the OP's offer.
I would do a 1st + 3rd for Toffoli with 20% retention. If that offer can be beat, that's fine.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

He currently plays on the 2nd line and has played a majority of the season on the 3rd line. Nobody is saying he isn't overpaid, we are saying that is is a positive impact player on ice, which is fact.

Why are you so hung up on his 8 goals this year, he's been a positive impact player every season in Calgary, this isn't a hard concept. We are not interest in paying your engrossed cost to take him when he would cost at most a 2nd to move this upcoming offseason. He will be an important player in Calgary's playoff run this year.

For other teams Lucic have a negative value. If you are happy with a Lucic on a second line or or third, it fine by me. Really need a upgrade on 2nd line if Lucic is there for the playoff.

But Montreal dont give him a positive value and nobody else in the league would give him too. At best because of a specifiy need of team for the series, maybe a team will take Lucic for a late pick... but i dont think so.

And again, if the Flames love him... its ok... 5.5M$

 

[Mike Dukarm]

Does this mean Gallagher and Drouin are also negative value since they produce less for more $$$? I am not saying Lucic has a lot of value if any but the NHL is full of them. Surprisingly, Lucic is not the worst.

btw Lucic does not play on the fourth line. Although you can argue that on the Flames there is not much difference between 2nd/3rd and 4th line.

Yes a think Gallagher and Drouin have negative value. If Habs want something for them, they will have to retain on them. Gallagher deal is to long...

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

For other teams Lucic have a negative value. If you are happy with a Lucic on a second line or or third, it fine by me. Really need a upgrade on 2nd line if Lucic is there for the playoff.

But Montreal dont give him a positive value and nobody else in the league would give him too. At best because of a specifiy need of team for the series, maybe a team will take Lucic for a late pick... but i dont think so.

And again, if the Flames love him... its ok... 5.5M$

We are aware that Lucic will cost assets to move, thats not a debate. But he will cost substantially less this summer after his final bonus is paid. I have no issue acquiring Toffoli but I am completely against paying premium to dump an effective team leader like Lucic to do so. Calgary has a good amount of TDL cap space to work with so acquiring Toffoli should not be a major issue with just picks

 

[Mike Dukarm]

I would love to acquire Toffoli, but not at the expense of the OP's offer.
I would do a 1st + 3rd for Toffoli with 20% retention. If that offer can be beat, that's fine.

I would be very surprise if Habs retain on Toffoli... very good contract and not to long too.

They would retain on others...

 

[DFF]

. Calgary has a good amount of TDL cap space to work with so acquiring Toffoli should not be a major issue with just picks

I agreed the Flames dont need to pay to dump Lucic but Toffoli has 2 more yrs after this year. The Flames have to sign Johnny/Tkachuk and Mangi. They do not have the cap space for him.

 

[Mike Dukarm]

We are aware that Lucic will cost assets to move, thats not a debate. But he will cost substantially less this summer after his final bonus is paid. I have no issue acquiring Toffoli but I am completely against paying premium to dump an effective team leader like Lucic to do so. Calgary has a good amount of TDL cap space to work with so acquiring Toffoli should not be a major issue with just picks

I agree with that, Lucic shouldnt be in a deal with Toffoli. And yes Lucic would be easier to trade next year.

And yes im with you with paying premium to dump... Ask Chicago: they gave Teravainen...

 

[ole ole]

I would love to acquire Toffoli, but not at the expense of the OP's offer.
I would do a 1st + 3rd for Toffoli with 20% retention. If that offer can be beat, that's fine.

Habs can get that without retention

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

I agreed the Flames dont need to pay to dump Lucic but Toffoli has 2 more yrs after this year. The Flames have to sign Johnny/Tkachuk and Mangi. They do not have the cap space for him.

They can make the cap space work, Toffoli is on a pretty team friendly deal. Calgary's cap situation this summer is a million times easier than Tampa's, Toronto's, Carolina's, Vegas', and more teams have been in recent years (and will be this summer)

 

[DFF]

They can make the cap space work, Toffoli is on a pretty team friendly deal. Calgary's cap situation this summer is a million times easier than Tampa's, Toronto's, Carolina's, Vegas', and more teams have been in recent years (and will be this summer)

Yeah if they somehow manage to LTIR Monahan lol

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Yeah if they somehow manage to LTIR Monahan lol

Disagree but sure man.

Vegas added Eichel while being literally 5M over the cap this year but you are telling me Calgary cant afford Toffoli's contract?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Lucic is a pretty fast skater fyi.

We are all aware that Lucic is not worth 5.25M, however Habs fans seem unaware that he is still a positive impact player on the ice. He is also a locker room leader, and for a team without a captain that is very important to have. The value Lucic provides to the Flames greatly outweighs the cost it would take to move his deal (at least until the offseason).

Lucic is a great skater eh?

 

[blankall]

Lucic is a great skater eh?

Lucic is not that slow is what people were arguing...probably the least graceful and ugliest skater in the NHL. He's like a rhino on skates. Has the ability to bowl over other players though. At over 230 lbs, Lucic's sheer mass makes him difficult to stand up to (literally).

 

[ole ole]

If Lucic was on the Habs and playing the same as he has with the Flames, there would be a shit load of "negative value" narratives on HF boards. Reality. Lucic is performing to a $3M AAV value at best in his time with the Flames. He is a negative contract at $6M AAV. Reality

Don/t bother .Everyone knows that Lucic has Negative value. I don't believe that a team would take him for free.

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

Lucic is worth more than Toffoli nowdays lmao

 

[ole ole]

4.25M for 33G 28A 61P in 78 games = not worth it

5.25M for 26G 30A 56P in 154 games = no problem, you literally call him your savior in another post

Love it

Ya but Toffoli payed for the offensive high power Habs.

 

[ole ole]

Lucic vs Toffoli at 5v5:

Goals/60:
Lucic: 1.13
Toffoli: 0.18

Points/60:
Lucic: 1.85
Toffoli: 1.26

You want the equivalent of 2 1sts so the Flames can get worse 5v5 offense just to save $1M in cap hit?

Oh i forgot that only 5 0n 5 stats count.
Here's something to swallow.
Last 3 season

Lucic--156 GP---26 Goals--30 Assist ---56 TP;s
Toffoli-146GP---57 Goals---48 Assist---105 TP's
Lets not forget age-29-33.

Ya you keep your better player and we'll keep our lousy player.