GDT: Low Effort GDT edition: 2021-22 season game 28 LA Kings vs Florida Panthers @4:00pm 12/16/21

[Fishhead]

No, it made zero difference. Brown never was a leader. There is a lot of love here for that guy, but when your GM correctly identifies a lack of leadership and makes it a priority to fix via trade and free agency to augment the lack of it in the current room - AND it results in two Cups - there is simply no need to romanticize the past.

The "C" has just been a decoration here since Norstrom left.

Can you explain his Foundation award then? You know, commitment, perseverance, teamwork, etc. to enrich his community? That's something a leader definitely does.

Or what about his Mark Messier Leadership award? You know, the one that recognizes a player as a superior leader and a contributing member of society? Handed out by Mark f***ing Messier himself? A bunch of other non-leaders have earned that as well, like Chelios, Sundin, Iginla, Crosby, Chara, Doan, Tows, Webber, etc.

Or what about being named an alternate captain for the USA? Twice.

Sorry, but I'll take the word of the guys who run our national team, Mark Messier, and the NHL itself over a guy who has a hate boner for a player.

 

[Bandit]

Sorry, but I'll take the word of the guys who run our national team, Mark Messier, and the NHL itself over a guy who has a hate boner for a player.

Hey, sometimes angry sex is the best sex.

I always wished that Brown stood up for himself and his teammates more particularly given the type of game he played, but damn. Dude is the only captain we’ve ever had that’s touched the cup. Twice. Even if he wasn’t the perfect leader, he was still a very important part of those cup winning teams and I’ll always love home for that.

All that being said, it’s definitely time for him to hang ‘em up. No shame in that either, it happens to everyone eventually.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Leadership discussion--pro or con--is going to be mostly conjecture at best and folks need to take that into account before attacking each other. You have opinions and circumstantial facts.

Yeah, and disagreeing with those who are huge fans somehow labels you as a hater.

I will fully admit that I am not now nor have I ever been a "fan" of Brown's. He was a diver, an embellisher, never stood up for himself or his teammates - the Malkin incident in particular was just about everything I can't stand about him in a nutshell. He has always been a coward who took reckless runs at opponents then hid on the bench. For everyone who says that Sutter just "hated" him, that's what they seem to forget. Sutter has an old school mentality and Brown was a new school fool. No wonder he didn't want him to represent his team. He has never shown the proper respect for the game despite playing fully on its edges.

And let's not forget that he was "captain" of a team totally devoid of leadership that was dead in the water and had quit on Terry Murray. This was a team that had also lost two winnable playoff series, one without Anze of course.

Brown had to be all but traded to find his game. What kind of example is that setting?

Then he pouted for years when taken off the top line, even when it was clearly best for the team. Once Sutter left he found his A game again, then one year later was part of a veteran "leadership" group that actively quit on yet another coach.

All in all, I cannot wait for the day that he no longer plays for the LA Kings. They will be much, much, much better off without him.

I mean, you're quite literally admitting you're a hater, lol

 

[The Butcher]

Can you explain his Foundation award then? You know, commitment, perseverance, teamwork, etc. to enrich his community? That's something a leader definitely does.

Or what about his Mark Messier Leadership award? You know, the one that recognizes a player as a superior leader and a contributing member of society? Handed out by Mark f***ing Messier himself? A bunch of other non-leaders have earned that as well, like Chelios, Sundin, Iginla, Crosby, Chara, Doan, Tows, Webber, etc.

Or what about being named an alternate captain for the USA? Twice.

Sorry, but I'll take the word of the guys who run our national team, Mark Messier, and the NHL itself over a guy who has a hate boner for a player.

No, you are correct and that other poster is wrong. Dustin Brown is a Kings legend, there's no two ways about it.

Say what you want about his current role/minutes/ etc but I have no time to listen to anyone trash his legacy and I'm adding another poster to the ignore list.

Absurdity.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Can you explain his Foundation award then? You know, commitment, perseverance, teamwork, etc. to enrich his community? That's something a leader definitely does.

Or what about his Mark Messier Leadership award? You know, the one that recognizes a player as a superior leader and a contributing member of society? Handed out by Mark f***ing Messier himself? A bunch of other non-leaders have earned that as well, like Chelios, Sundin, Iginla, Crosby, Chara, Doan, Tows, Webber, etc.

Or what about being named an alternate captain for the USA? Twice.

Sorry, but I'll take the word of the guys who run our national team, Mark Messier, and the NHL itself over a guy who has a hate boner for a player.

Even beyond that my favorite Brown stuff was prior to acknowledgment--how as a young player he was the one at camp speaking to young players about what it takes to be a pro.

leadership takes many forms and Brown has always been a great human being who cares. There are FAR worse role models and Cs in the NHL. I think it's debateable whether he's the ON ICE guy to get a team over the hump but nothing symbolized the growth of that Kings team more than a C on Brown.

 

[bland]

Leadership discussion--pro or con--is going to be mostly conjecture at best and folks need to take that into account before attacking each other. You have opinions and circumstantial facts.





I mean, you're quite literally admitting you're a hater, lol

That comes from having an opinion that differs from his most vocal fans. We aren't all going to like or appreciate the same things. I prefer accountability and perseverance. Brown has always come up a bit short in both. I find his brand of hockey to be cheap and lacking in character. Sutter actually yanked most of the foolishness out of his game, but there was a good five year or so run where his clown act made me embarrassed that he was a King.

 

[bland]

No, you are correct and that other poster is wrong. Dustin Brown is a Kings legend, there's no two ways about it.

Say what you want about his current role/minutes/ etc but I have no time to listen to anyone trash his legacy and I'm adding another poster to the ignore list.

Absurdity.

So long.

 

[bland]

Can you explain his Foundation award then? You know, commitment, perseverance, teamwork, etc. to enrich his community? That's something a leader definitely does.

Or what about his Mark Messier Leadership award? You know, the one that recognizes a player as a superior leader and a contributing member of society? Handed out by Mark f***ing Messier himself? A bunch of other non-leaders have earned that as well, like Chelios, Sundin, Iginla, Crosby, Chara, Doan, Tows, Webber, etc.

Or what about being named an alternate captain for the USA? Twice.

Sorry, but I'll take the word of the guys who run our national team, Mark Messier, and the NHL itself over a guy who has a hate boner for a player.

Sure. He's a great guy. Good player, lousy leader who is overly romanticized. Stayed well past his expiration date.

Glad you like him. I don't.

 

[King'sPawn]

Brown was and is far from perfect. He also had issues as a player. Most notably, his dives in the early years drove me bonkers.

That said, he took a lot of initiative. Lombardi, who valued grit and character above all else, trusted him to take charge.

On his own, it wasn't enough. Players like Williams, Richards, Mitchell, etc had to be brought in to complement Brown's "shortcomings."

And while he drives me nuts now, I definitely separate the player he is versus the player he was.

He may not be the type of leader the Kings need now, but I don't think it makes him a bad leader.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think the 'problem' is Brown is a good-to-great off-ice leader, but an average-at-best on-ice leader (minus that stretch in 2012) after his hitting and bull-in-a-china-shop mentality tailed off. He was never the same after that Mike Smith hack in 2012.

The biggest reason it's a problem though is we had some legendary characters in that locker room, like arguably the best intangibles of all time, most teams are hard pressed to have ONE of those guys and we had several in Williams, Richards, Mitchell, Greene, even Regehr. I think that helped some of our best players just play--for better and for worse. I think, for example, that delayed Doughty's accountability in his own game.

 

[TruKingFan]

No, you are correct and that other poster is wrong. Dustin Brown is a Kings legend, there's no two ways about it.

Say what you want about his current role/minutes/ etc but I have no time to listen to anyone trash his legacy and I'm adding another poster to the ignore list.

Absurdity.

Ranting and raving of an anti-Brown, semi-Kings fan who cannot get over the fact that Brown is the only captain to bring the Cup to LA. He cries in his panties all the time about this.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

Apparently to some, Brown's current crap play is REALLY clouding just how great, important, and significant he was/is in Kings history. The man is a Kings legend, and his awful play now doesn't change that

 

[HookKing]

Ranting and raving of an anti-Brown, semi-Kings fan who cannot get over the fact that Brown is the only captain to bring the Cup to LA. He cries in his panties all the time about this.

Yep, every post is dripping with envy. You gotta love it.

 

[Lt Dan]

Apparently to some, Brown's current crap play is REALLY clouding just how great, important, and significant he was/is in Kings history. The man is a Kings legend, and his awful play now doesn't change that

Seriously.

Brown is on the Mount Rushmore of the Kings

 

[johnjm22]

Brown was the best player in the NHL at drawing penalties for years.

I'm not sure why people would be upset about it. Every player, including great players do it, Brown was just really good at it.

Brown is at times an unintentional pest / agitator.

 

[johnjm22]

People have also exaggerated how poorly Brown has played. He hasn't been great obviously, and he's had some crap games, but there's guys who've been worse this year. Like Andersson, Vilardi and even Kupari, Moore and AA on many nights.

 

[Schmooley]

People have also exaggerated how poorly Brown has played. He hasn't been great obviously, and he's had some crap games, but there's guys who've been worse this year. Like Andersson, Vilardi and even Kupari, Moore and AA on many nights.

Thats not true in the slightest. Hes been horrible. Barely moves his feet most nights. None of those guys you mentioned are on the first line. Andersson and Vilardi barely played any games to even compare. He hasnt been better than Kupari even once. Maybe he was better than Moore a game or two.
Brown had a nice goal last game but lets not get crazy. He turns the puck over almost every time he touches it.

 

[tny760]

damn the rookies and tweeners worse than a decorated veteran what a hot take

his play sucks now, that doesn't take anything away from his past accomplishments. he's a possession black hole now

 

[johnjm22]

Thats not true in the slightest. Hes been horrible. Barely moves his feet most nights. None of those guys you mentioned are on the first line. Andersson and Vilardi barely played any games to even compare. He hasnt been better than Kupari even once. Maybe he was better than Moore a game or two.
Brown had a nice goal last game but lets not get crazy. He turns the puck over almost every time he touches it.

Yes it is true. Criticisms of Brown have always been exaggerated. That doesn't mean I think he's playing well.

And I'm talking in absolute terms. Everyone knows those other players aren't on the first line or haven't played as much.

Yes there has been some nights where he was better than Kupari (that's not saying much). Kupari has had some really bad games.

Do I need to start pulling out the advanced stats on you?

 

[Schmooley]

Yes it is true. Criticisms of Brown have always been exaggerated. That doesn't mean I think he's playing well.

And I'm talking in absolute terms. Everyone knows those other players aren't on the first line or haven't played as much.

Yes there has been some nights where he was better than Kupari (that's not saying much). Kupari has had some really bad games.

Do I need to start pulling out the advanced stats on you?

You can if you want but no stat will convince me hes not a detriment to his line. If you go to the games its even more apparent how many steps behind he is a lot of the time.
He played better the last two games so maybe hes got a little life left. I do want to see him go to a contender at the deadline and have a good playoff.

 

[johnjm22]

You can if you want but no stat will convince me hes not a detriment to his line. If you go to the games its even more apparent how many steps behind he is a lot of the time.
He played better the last two games so maybe hes got a little life left. I do want to see him go to a contender at the deadline and have a good playoff.

I didn't say he wasn't a detriment to the top line. I've advocated taking him off it.

When people talk about Brown it's full on apocalyptic. I'm not saying he's good, I'm just saying people exaggerate. Just like they do with Maatta.

 

[ScoreZeGoals]

People have also exaggerated how poorly Brown has played. He hasn't been great obviously, and he's had some crap games, but there's guys who've been worse this year. Like Andersson, Vilardi and even Kupari, Moore and AA on many nights.

That's a group consisting of young guys looking to get their footing in the NHL, a 4th liner, and a one trick pony who shouldn't have been re-signed and won't be on the roster next year. On the other hand Brown continues to play on the first line. Brown has been awful almost the entire season, and outside of a couple of games, he's rewarded with first line minutes. It's inexcusable and shitty coaching

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes it is true. Criticisms of Brown have always been exaggerated. That doesn't mean I think he's playing well.

And I'm talking in absolute terms. Everyone knows those other players aren't on the first line or haven't played as much.

Yes there has been some nights where he was better than Kupari (that's not saying much). Kupari has had some really bad games.

Do I need to start pulling out the advanced stats on you?

When you pull Brown away from Kopitar, his expected goals for drops nearly 10%, scoring chances for by 15%, high danger scoring chances for by 20%.

Isolate the player and you'll see just how bad he is at doing just about anything that's not given to him and even then we've watched him flub passes and stuff. He is absolutely carried by Kopitar and that matches the eye test...and now that Kopitar is fading that effect isn't getting better.

You mentioned Maatta as well...you really don't want to know his isolated effects. WE're talking league-worst, 30-33% numbers.

I tend to agree with you that he hasn't been as 'bad' as Kupari some games but that's also because Kupari is playing C and driving a line carrying the puck all over the ice while at this point, for all intents and purposes, Brown is simply a give-and-go bumper that works 50% of the time, he's got hands of stone quite frequently and it's the consistency that makes it look worse. Kupari has had a couple of egregious mistakes--ie that play where he centered it vs...vancouver? to our slot--but Brown can't even catch the play to make that sort of mistake.

Don't mistake his capability for making a good play 25% of the time as the norm. He's maybe taking more a beating than he should because there's plenty of suck to go around...but he's also immune to accountability for it and has all year to correct it where the other players you mentioned get banished after one.

 

[cyclones22]

Yeah go buy a ticket and watch from the arena where you can see the entirety of the ice. You'll be saying what the hell is he doing out there? That applies to both Brown and Maatta.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah go buy a ticket and watch from the arena where you can see the entirety of the ice. You'll be saying what the hell is he doing out there? That applies to both Brown and Maatta.

Brown at least knows what he's doing, just can't execute with regularity anymore.

Off-screen Maatta is a drunken monkey. Or maybe drunken master, because lately it works...I guess if you don't know what you're doing, no one else can either!