Salary Cap: Losing RFA's due to cap space

[Razz]

We don't need to be at 23. That's an advantage of the AHL team playing in the same city. 21 or 22 is fine.

Good point, we could keep it lean on home stretches and call up guys for road trips to save cap space.

If that is the case we can't use Rielly cause we can't send him to the Marlies, so it'll probably be Blacker, Brennan and D'Amigo as our extras...

Will be interesting. I get the sense that Nonis is going to play it safe and get a bit of breathing room though.

Again I think Liles will be easily moved if needed after camp completes. Doubt he'll do it before hand unless the arbitrator isn't nice to us.

 

[notdoneyet]

I'm pretty certain that at some point in the next 2-3 years, we're either going to have to trade away a key RFA, or trade away a veteran signed longterm such as Lupul or JVR.

Bozak, JVR, Lupul, and Clarkson are the veterans signed to longterm relatively big money contracts that we don't look like we're trying to move right now. Kessel + Phaneuf should also be locked up longterm soon.

Kadri, Gardiner, Franson, Gunnarson, and Reimer are all up for big raises this offseason or next offseason.

Just adding up the numbers, and you can see how it starts to get tough to fill out the roster.

why do you not think the cap will go up
Next year is will go up quite a bit. Revenue from a new TV contract and 12-15 outdoor gmes will see the NHL have more revenue than ever before.

In 2-3 years it would not surprise me if the cap was at 75M.

2014- 64 M
2015 - 70M
2016- 75M

 

[achtungbaby]

Valuing Dion at 5M shows a complete lack of understanding of the NHL marketplace.

I never said he wouldn't get his money. I just said I wouldn't be the guy giving it to him. Simple stuff really, let me know if you need any further clarification on the matter. Keep on plugging.

 

[notdoneyet]

right now we have 10.3M dollars in cap space

Liles can be traded which will save us 3.8M or
he can be bought out with the regular buy out
which would save us 2M.

So we can have at least 12.3M to sign

kadri 4M
Gunnar 3M
Franson 3M
Fraser 1M
Colborne 1M

No problem to sign these guys JUST with a regular buyout of Liles

If liles for a trade we would have 14.1M - 12M for RFA's = 2.1M free
for another third liner OR a 8M dollar player at the trade deadline.

My money is on Nonis and his team that they know the cap space
they need and whatever options are open to them over some
pissing and moaning poster who is never happy with anything we do
to try to improve the team.

The same guys all the time trade phaneuf, trade kessel, dont sign this guy, dont
trade this guy, too much money, yaaada yaaada yaaada!

Give it a rest we have two months before we have to be cap compliant
lots of time for Nonis to work some magic.

 

[tmlms13]

a lot of people seem to forget that the cap will likely go up after this year, plus the 2.5 that is coming off in buyouts/retained.

 

[080]

People need to chill. We're currently retaining half a million from the Bernier-Frattin trade; 2 million in buyouts; and the cap is going up.

We can also go over the cap currently if we need to and then deal with the implications later. We also have Liles who, if traded, would alleviate any cap issues. If Nonis can get our guys under contract and, if necessary, get rid of Liles, then next year we could even be in a position to add salary. Even if you allot the savings from the buyouts and salary retention to Kessel's next contract, if the cap goes up sufficiently, we could be looking at adding another solid player.

 

[Renegade]

Very tight situation. I'd try and trade Liles if anything. 3.8M for a guy who sat on the bench all year. He can still be useful on another team even if we get a very small return.

Kadri needs to sign long term. If he signs a bridge contract it will be much more difficult to sign him in 2-3 years down the road. Sign him at 4M for 5-8 years.

Franson is difficult. He's a great player but he's asking for way too much. I'd try to get him on the same contract as Kadri but if not I'll trade him easily.

Gunnar should definitely re sign. Not sure about Colborne and Fraser.

 

[Pi]

right now we have 10.3M dollars in cap space

Liles can be traded which will save us 3.8M or
he can be bought out with the regular buy out
which would save us 2M.

So we can have at least 12.3M to sign

kadri 4M
Gunnar 3M
Franson 3M
Fraser 1M
Colborne 1M

No problem to sign these guys JUST with a regular buyout of Liles

If liles for a trade we would have 14.1M - 12M for RFA's = 2.1M free
for another third liner OR a 8M dollar player at the trade deadline.

My money is on Nonis and his team that they know the cap space
they need and whatever options are open to them over some
pissing and moaning poster who is never happy with anything we do
to try to improve the team.

The same guys all the time trade phaneuf, trade kessel, dont sign this guy, dont
trade this guy, too much money, yaaada yaaada yaaada!

Give it a rest we have two months before we have to be cap compliant
lots of time for Nonis to work some magic.

True. GM's aren't idiots. They probably talked with the agents of all RFA's so they know what they are asking and what they can give up and work within that range.

We'll be fine. If we have to trade Liles, just retain ~800k and trade him. Liles @ 3M is a great deal and it's cheaper than a buy out for us.

Trading Liles means that the Leafs have full faith in Morgan Rielly making the team though...so I'd expect any decision on Liles to be made near the start of the season.

 

[The_Chosen_One]

Our core:

Kessel
Phaneuf
Kadri
JVR ( Two-way, used against top lines)

Will be playing next season:

Bozak
Clarkson

I think we're going to see a move towards a leaner bottom six and bottom pairing as well. If we can establish a productive shut down line like Bergeron/ Zetterberg, we'll retain Bolland. That trade suggests that we're expecting his 50 point form. He be given more skilled linemates unlike Grabovski.

That being said, everyone else can be moved. I don't think Gunnarsson is as important as many suggest. It may be a good idea to consider Franson a core player seeing that we used him against top competition as well, with a ~33% OZone start.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

it's laughable that we're not even a cup contender or guaranteed playoff team and we're going to be close to cap maxed. If we were a cup contender, I would understand that we would be close the cap and might have to lose some guys, but not when a we're a fringe playoff team at best.

And that is why I did not like Nonis' FA moves. Signing Bozak to that deal

 

[ULF_55]

One of the things Nonis has mentioned on several occasions, is the likelihood of teams losing their RFA's because they don't have the space to sign them. The Leafs have their work cut out for them to keep, Kadri/Gunnar/Colborne/Franson and Fraser all with 10 million left to spend. Curious as to see what other teams may have to release their RFA's due to cap constraints.

They'll get Gunnarsson and Kadri done, and Franson signed or traded, Colborne and Fraser won't get much.

 

[leafstilldeath*]

Finge playoff team might be a thing of the past....Leafs finished 9th overall last year (of 30 teams) and had the 4th best record in the East. Not sure if they need to finish top three to considered decent in your books or what?

Dude Leafs were sitting 5th in the Conference after 48 games in 2011-2012 season before the 18 wheeler fell of the cliff. Again this season we were 5th after 48 games. What does that tell ya?

We need to see how this team performs in 82 games next season to have some form of idea

 

[gabeliscious]

if a player is on a way one contract but is on the marlies does their contract count towards the cap?

specifically, maclaren, brennan, smith, holzer, and very possibly colborne could find themselves on the marlies. if their contracts dont count if they are on the marlies then there really is no shortage of cap space to resign kadri, franson, gunnarson, and fraser. realistically none of these guys should be on the team if carlyle dresses the best players available (which there is no guarantee, ie: kostka )

jvr-bozak-kessel
lupul-kadri-clarkson
kulemin-bolland-ashton
orr-mclemment-damigo

phanuef-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
liles-fraser

bernier/reimer

 

[Deebo]

if a player is on a way one contract but is on the marlies does their contract count towards the cap?

specifically, maclaren, brennan, smith, holzer, and very possibly colborne could find themselves on the marlies. if their contracts dont count if they are on the marlies then there really is no shortage of cap space to resign kadri, franson, gunnarson, and fraser. realistically none of these guys should be on the team if carlyle dresses the best players available (which there is no guarantee, ie: kostka )

jvr-bozak-kessel
lupul-kadri-clarkson
kulemin-bolland-ashton
orr-mclemment-damigo

phanuef-gunnarson
gardiner-franson
liles-fraser

bernier/reimer

The first 925k (league minimum + 375k) doesn't count.

 

[gabeliscious]

The first 925k (league minimum + 375k) doesn't count.

that basically takes care of mclaren, smith, holzer, and brennan if necessary. which is just over $2.5 million. which puts us at almost $13 million to resign everyone

 

[Mess]

that basically takes care of mclaren, smith, holzer, and brennan if necessary. which is just over $2.5 million. which puts us at almost $13 million to resign everyone

Except you have to replace those players on the roster with another player and even if that other player makes league minimum ($550k) you're not saving very much..

Leafs have 18 players under contract counting all 4 names you listed with $10.5 mil cap. Take them away and Leafs have 14 players under contract with $13 mil cap space now .. However 23 players makes up and NHL roster with 20 starters and a few spares.

So while you have created more cap space temporarily by demoting some current 1-way contracts, you now need 9 players to add to get back to 23 full team.

9 players divided by $13 mil cap space = $1.44 mil average .. So the average per player goes down the more players you need.

You have the current 5 RFAs Gunnersson, Franson, Kadri, Colborne and Fraser among those 9 requiring new deals.

 

[JackJ]

They'll get Gunnarsson and Kadri done, and Franson signed or traded, Colborne and Fraser won't get much.

Franson is the higher priority IMO.

 

[Leafsin2014*]

So while you have created more cap space temporarily by demoting some current 1-way contracts, you now need 9 players to add to get back to 23 full team.

9 players divided by $13 mil cap space = $1.44 mil average .. So the average per player goes down the more players you need.

You have the current 5 RFAs Gunnersson, Franson, Kadri, Colborne and Fraser among those 9 requiring new deals.

23 is not a "full team", it's the maximum. Teams can operate just fine with 20 if need be due to cap issues, especially the Leafs having the Marlies in the same city.

 

[egd27]

If Nonis can squeeze and sign all notible RFA's for Under 3mil each, great job.

If Nonis signs all the notible RFA's for Slightly Over 3mil and keeps them all a leaf, meh, fine.

If Nonis trades one RFA and signs the rest, horrible GM moves, job security gone, job potentially gone?

Lets all hope its the 1st option.

Bonus: Nonis trades Liles
Reward: Dozen Doughnuts from Timmy's on the house.

Yet another blanket statement that is nothing but speculative nonsense.

It's simply astounding that someone actually believes they can evaluate a trade that hasn't even occurred.

 

[Mess]

23 is not a "full team", it's the maximum. Teams can operate just fine with 20 if need be due to cap issues, especially the Leafs having the Marlies in the same city.

And when the team goes on the road trip and injuries or illness occur and Leafs play with less than the required players (20) for a game.

A team salary cap is based on 20 players and a few spares. You really go with the bare minimum only in a pinch buts its not the desirable\preferable situation.

I wouldn't suggest getting Leafs 5 RFAs signed and going to the full salary ceiling and having only 20 players on the roster is a good idea, or one the Leafs intend to go with.

 

[Duke Silver]

Dude Leafs were sitting 5th in the Conference after 48 games in 2011-2012 season before the 18 wheeler fell of the cliff. Again this season we were 5th after 48 games. What does that tell ya?

We need to see how this team performs in 82 games next season to have some form of idea

Nope.

Leafs were in 9th after game 48.

 

[nuck]

Trading JVR for a top 6 center or a top 4 pairing defender to address other needs certainly an option when your up against the cap ceiling and need to move money out and require assets to obtain them.

Having Kessel, Lupul and Clarkson lockup up long-term eventually could make JVR the best asset to move in trade having value to obtain a player at another position.

The Leafs have too much money biased towards their defense. Liles is a huge issue, and needs to be moved, even if picks or prospects have to be attached. Then they need to determine if they need Phaneuf, and Franson, and Gardiner, with Reilly on the way. High scoring D are expensive, and they need to decide fairly soon who they are going to run with.

What club other than the mid 70s Habs has tried to run with 4 offensive D in the lineup? Diminishing returns, as soon as you drop them off the number 1 powerplay unit, and if you pair two PMD together one of them has to back up the other's rushing, so you are not benefitting from their prime asset. I am not one of the anti Dion lobby, but they really need more defensive D to pair up with Franson and Gardiner for the future then they need Dion long term. Alternatively they need to decide between Franson and Gardiner and move one of them by mid season.

Getting rid of guys like JVR and Lupul who can potentially outperform their contracts is not an efficient way to manage the cap.

 

[Leafsin2014*]

And when the team goes on the road trip and injuries or illness occur and Leafs play with less than the required players (20) for a game.

A team salary cap is based on 20 players and a few spares. You really go with the bare minimum only in a pinch buts its not the desirable\preferable situation.

I wouldn't suggest getting Leafs 5 RFAs signed and going to the full salary ceiling and having only 20 players on the roster is a good idea, or one the Leafs intend to go with.

No, but 21 is totally doable, 22 possibly. You were doing all your projections on 23 which is unnecessary.

 

[BlazingWithCharizard*]

Other teams know Toronto is in a tough\tight cap spot with their own RFAs and I bet there are teams sitting around waiting to see if anything shakes lose for their benefit..

Teams also know that Nonis would love desperately to dump Liles to make more cap space for others.. They certainly are not lining up to solve his problem or allow him the freedom to go poaching other teams RFA players by taking Liles off the Leafs hands..

Perhaps Nonis needs to do the Lombardi/Franson deal in reverse where he needs to include a Leaf prospect along with Liles in order for another team to see value in eating his salary for the Leafs. Just like how Leafs eat $7 mil of Lombardi's contract to get Franson originally. Now he might have to sacrifice a Blacker\Percy etc with Liles to free up cap space to re-sign RFA Franson.

it wont take blacker or percy for a cap space deal..... Think ashton/ross/

 

[darrylsittler27]

Toronto's defense.

Let us say the Leafs are ok at Center ,our defense isn't. If Phaneuff wants $6.5M it puts a squeeze on Defense as Gunner and Franson may get good raises and we still don't have a guy to help Phaneuff on the top 2. Gardiner will command maybe $2.5M - depending on his season.

The way it looks if Gunner and Franson win big, one has to traded.

Phaneuff $6.5M, top 2($4.5M+),Franson ($3.5M),Gunner($3M),Gardiner ($2.5M) plus a 6th Dman $1.5M.That is over $20M in defense, all that money spent on forwards and backup goalies($2.8M) means less can be spent on defense. The one area I had hoped they would fix. C seemingly too tough.

We have $10M to sign :Kadri,Franson,Gunner,Fraser and Colbourne. So Liles is gone.