Speculation: Looking back on the Hamilton trade , should the Oilers have gave up Nurse

[Major Happy*]

Fair points. He's a defensive defenceman. His skating needs work, but he has high hockey IQ and can read the game at an NHL level. His hockey IQ will keep him in the NHL well into his 30s.

I agree, I think his potential is a mediocre number 3, solid number 4 or great number 5.

 

[snipes]

I agree, I think his potential is a mediocre number 3, solid number 4 or great number 5.

Exactly how I see it.

He'd be a great 3rd pairing, 1st pairing PK type Dman. His hockey IQ will shine on the PK, he'll never be a flashy offensive dynamo on D. Just solid and consistent always in good position and fulfilling his assignment. A good game from Reinhart is one where you don't even notice he was on the ice.

 

[Halla]

reports of Reinhart's demise are vastly over stated. He's still a very good prospect.

It's not like we had a choice between Hamilton and Reinhart, and picked Reinhart. Hamilton was likely never available to us. Probably no veteran D for sale either.

you dont give up picks 16 and 33 for a good prospect though...
Reinhart has potential still, too soon to write him off. looking at that draft class though with Rielly, Lindholm and Trouba all taken right after him....

 

[Blitzago*]

Hamilton is twice the player Larsson is, lol

This is false.

That is why Larsson is rated 34 on HFBoards, Hamilton is rated 49, right ahead of Klefbom at 50.

Hamilton looks lost when he's playing top QoC.

 

[snipes]

you dont give up picks 16 and 33 for a good prospect though...
Reinhart has potential still, too soon to write him off. looking at that draft class though with Rielly, Lindholm and Trouba all taken right after him....

All ahead of him, no doubt. No problem saying it. Lindholm is the best of the group, bona fide #1 Dman right now in my view. Especially at the end of the year, his play was elite.

Rielly has #1 D written all over him. Outstanding skater and excellent first pass. His skillset really shined through at the 2016 WHC, his elite skating was apparent. Probably the best skating Dman at the entire tournament.

Reinhart will be an NHLer well into his 30s because of his brain and ability to understand the game. He'll be a solid defensive Dman and good NHLer that you win with. However, he'll never reach the level that Rielly and Lindholm are trending towards.

 

[McSuper]

reports of Reinhart's demise are vastly over stated. He's still a very good prospect.

It's not like we had a choice between Hamilton and Reinhart, and picked Reinhart. Hamilton was likely never available to us. Probably no veteran D for sale either.

It was reported the Oilers offer picks very close to what Calgary offered and Boston wanted Nurse include and Chia wouldn't do it . Boston demands were much higher from Edmonton as they had a hate on for Chia . Time will tell if it was the right decision . I just think with Hamilton and Larsson our D would be pretty good and these guys are young and have room to get better .

Larsson a stud defensively
Hamilton a great PP guys
Sekera vet to help with the kids
Klefbom who may yet become the best D we have
Davidson . Who know how high this kid will climb . His play last year was top 4 caliber , does it continue , does he get better . I wouldn't bet against the kid

Plus RHD Chia add to the prospects over the last 2 drafts

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Hamilton looks lost when he's playing top QoC.

damn. QoC = +0.836 in 2013-14 and Hamilton 'looked lost' all the way to the President's Trophy or are we still extrapolating the first quarter of 2015-16 with brand ew teammates, new coach with wildly different system, and terrible goaltending to make all-encompassing player evaluations?

I wonder how steady Larsson will look without Zajac and Greene.

 

[doubledown99]

From what I remember from the rumors at the time, BOS wanted #16, both of our 2nd rounder's and Nurse. If that deal goes down, we likely wouldn't have Talbot (unless a different trade could have been consummated).

So that has to factor into the analysis as well.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

If it was just for picks I would of been ok with it but not at the expense of picks and Nurse.

I'm not a big fan of the Reinhart deal but I'd rather them take some shots using draft picks as I think between the new rink, McDavid and when the team starts winning they will be able to attract college and Euro/Russian FA's to fill out the prospect pool much like teams like NYR and Chicago do.

 

[bearcountry17]

damn. QoC = +0.836 in 2013-14 and Hamilton 'looked lost' all the way to the President's Trophy or are we still extrapolating the first quarter of 2015-16 with brand ew teammates, new coach with wildly different system, and terrible goaltending to make all-encompassing player evaluations?

I wonder how steady Larsson will look without Zajac and Greene.

How steady was Hamilton without Bergeron and Chara?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

How steady was Hamilton without Bergeron and Chara?

My point exactly.

 

[Mr Positive]

From what I remember from the rumors at the time, BOS wanted #16, both of our 2nd rounder's and Nurse. If that deal goes down, we likely wouldn't have Talbot (unless a different trade could have been consummated).

So that has to factor into the analysis as well.

I recall it being just the 16th, 32nd and Nurse. That's a bit of a tough pill considering even without Nurse those picks are better than what Calgary paid. If that was the case, then I still say we should have tossed Nurse in there. Getting both Hamilton and Larsson would have be awesome. I have my doubts that any of the rumours are true though, or that Boston really would trade Hamilton to Chiarelli.

If you're right and the trade would have put the Talbot trade in jeopardy then it wouldn't be worth it though. I would think we still could have made that trade with other assets though.

 

[Paper]

From what I remember from the rumors at the time, BOS wanted #16, both of our 2nd rounder's and Nurse. If that deal goes down, we likely wouldn't have Talbot (unless a different trade could have been consummated).

So that has to factor into the analysis as well.

I think it was misconstrued. The Oilers potentially offered the #16 and both 2nd rounders...arguably a slightly better offer then the Flames. However, the Bruins wanted Nurse in the deal, not necessarily on top of the other picks.

I'd imagine if Nurse+ the two 2nds were offered, Hamilton is an Oiler today.

 

[Homesick]

Problem with Edmonton on the Reinhart deal is you had a new GM feeling flush, and all that Connor McDavid hype blinding the organization into thinking it could make a high risk move.

What they should have done is made that pick and not traded for need in such a hurry. Sock away assets, let them grow patiently and let the picks appreciate in value. But Chiarelli was obviously in a hurry to make a slash, and he paid dearly. Same with the Hall deal.

Can't trust a GM who traded Seguin away at 21 for Loui Eriksson.

Pretty obvious it was Neely pulling those strings

 

[alg363636]

Pretty obvious it was Neely pulling those strings

How?

How is it pretty obvious?

There is literally no evidence that is true and people keep posting it everywhere to salvage Chiarelli's image.

I don't like Neely and maybe it was all his choice, but there is absolutely no evidence that trade was his idea or that Chiarelli wasn't the mastermind/100% behind it.

Prove it.

 

[JarvisFunk]

My point exactly.

Zajac and Greene is a far cry from Bergeron and Chara.

And in the small sample size away from Greene last year, Larsson performed very well.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

damn. QoC = +0.836 in 2013-14 and Hamilton 'looked lost' all the way to the President's Trophy or are we still extrapolating the first quarter of 2015-16 with brand ew teammates, new coach with wildly different system, and terrible goaltending to make all-encompassing player evaluations?

I wonder how steady Larsson will look without Zajac and Greene.

significantly better without Zajac (anchor) and better without Greene in a small sample

so do we look at 14/15 Hamilton who had poor defensive numbers relative to his team playing with Chara or 15/16 Hamilton that had abysmal defensive numbers playing with Russell/Jokkipakka/Gio?

 

[bearcountry17]

My point exactly.

the same point doesn't apply for different players.

When Hamilton was a Bruin, guys like Seidenberg and Mcquaid took his place next to Chara for a defensive duties and penalty killing. He struggled with the flames until they started giving him easier minutes and zone starts. He is a big mobile offensive PMD who can be the triggerman on the PP.

Larsson faced top competition every night and every situation, including being of the first PK. He is a big shutdown dman who is decent offensively and can move the puck pretty well.

Larsson will definitely have to adapt to a new team just like Hamilton, but he won't forget how to defend, just as Hamilton didn't forget to score points.

 

[bearcountry17]

Pretty obvious it was Neely pulling those strings

Did Neely sneak into the Oiler's organization and force him to sell the only guy taken before Seguin in his draft year?

That was a bs cop out last year and I honestly have no idea how Oilers fans can even say that with a straight face after the summers events.

 

[Blitzago*]

This pretty much sums up some Oiler fans in here. Rant and rave their own opinions and when someone else voices an opposing one this guy gets insecure and acts like others shouldn't voice theirs. Comical

Oiler fans will be in for a real reality check when Hamilton excels next year, much like he did for much of the second half of last season. What you fail to recognize or just ignorantly ignore is how out to dry Hartleys system left the D last year. It made very good defensive guys like Gio and Brodie look below average. Gio has always been a great defender but ever he looked blah defensively last year. The system was really tough on them. Watching every flames game was fun to watch but you could see from game to game how hard it was for them to play both ends. Brodie managed to stand out because he is an exceptional skater and could make up ground far better than anyone else on the flames

All that added to Hamilton joining a brand new team, at a young age after a very surprising trade and having to learn a piss poor new system and you guys wonder why his defensive numbers weren't great.


I'm not gonna say he'll be amazing in his own end ever. That's just it. You can't really judge right now. After this year when he is in a more suitable situation and than make all the judgements you want.

I can confidently say this though. Hamilton would have to be very bad defensively (like first quarter of last season bad) to close the gap between him and Larsson overall. Anyone who says Larsson > Hamilton is completely fooling themselves. This upcoming season will make this picture much clearer. Maybe Larsson fits edmontons needs more right now, but he is NOT a better overall player. The majority of people outside of Edmonton would confirm that

Your post is valid for every fanbase on this site.

And Hamilton is very bad defensively compared to Larsson.

 

[goonybird]

Hamilton is twice the player Larsson is, lol

just. just no.

 

[belair]

This pretty much sums up some Oiler fans in here. Rant and rave their own opinions and when someone else voices an opposing one this guy gets insecure and acts like others shouldn't voice theirs. Comical

Oiler fans will be in for a real reality check when Hamilton excels next year, much like he did for much of the second half of last season. What you fail to recognize or just ignorantly ignore is how out to dry Hartleys system left the D last year. It made very good defensive guys like Gio and Brodie look below average. Gio has always been a great defender but ever he looked blah defensively last year. The system was really tough on them. Watching every flames game was fun to watch but you could see from game to game how hard it was for them to play both ends. Brodie managed to stand out because he is an exceptional skater and could make up ground far better than anyone else on the flames

All that added to Hamilton joining a brand new team, at a young age after a very surprising trade and having to learn a piss poor new system and you guys wonder why his defensive numbers weren't great.


I'm not gonna say he'll be amazing in his own end ever. That's just it. You can't really judge right now. After this year when he is in a more suitable situation and than make all the judgements you want.

I can confidently say this though. Hamilton would have to be very bad defensively (like first quarter of last season bad) to close the gap between him and Larsson overall. Anyone who says Larsson > Hamilton is completely fooling themselves. This upcoming season will make this picture much clearer. Maybe Larsson fits edmontons needs more right now, but he is NOT a better overall player. The majority of people outside of Edmonton would confirm that

What does my post have to do with anything you've just written?

What 'mental gymnastics' do people have to have to think Darnell Nurse will become a decent second pairing defenseman? Because the poster I've quoted here seems pretty certain that's a laughable estimation.

And the Larsson/Hamilton debate comes down to whether you value defense or offense from your defenseman. If you put Hamilton in Larsson's shoes last season, he's likely a shell of the player he currently is now. 30% OZ starts is something that few defensemen in this league have to deal with.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Did Neely sneak into the Oiler's organization and force him to sell the only guy taken before Seguin in his draft year?

That was a bs cop out last year and I honestly have no idea how Oilers fans can even say that with a straight face after the summers events.

*oiler fan, wouldn't love it if I called all bruins fans generalizing ***** because of this single post

 

[belair]

damn. QoC = +0.836 in 2013-14 and Hamilton 'looked lost' all the way to the President's Trophy or are we still extrapolating the first quarter of 2015-16 with brand ew teammates, new coach with wildly different system, and terrible goaltending to make all-encompassing player evaluations?

I wonder how steady Larsson will look without Zajac and Greene.

Probably not bad with Klefbom and McDavid/RNH.

Giving Andy Greene all the credit for that pairing is a farce.

 

[Kilted Yaksmen]

The biggest thing to take from this thread is that Chiarelli is pretty bad at trading and assessing talent in general.