Speculation: Looking back on the Hamilton trade , should the Oilers have gave up Nurse

[victor]

I don't think that amount of money is too much for a Dman who puts up points, and a 2nd pairing guy is still a critical position. Hamilton has potential to become a 1D as well.

Yes, although that's a huge contract for a guy that may become Dennis Wideman (without the reffing baggage.)

Going back to the original premise of the thread, Nurse doesn't need to be protected in the expansion draft. They didn't know that at the time, but we know that now. I still wouldn't do the original trade.

 

[Kovaz]

I think Hamilton made Gio look bad off the hop because Hamilton couldn't handle the competition that Gio plays.

Hamilton's a strong ES/PP producer and does well to get the puck going in the right direction, but his inability to protect the net and defend his zone will always be his hinderance from being a top pair D in my mind. I thought they should have gone out and gotten a Methot-type box protection D to cover his mistakes, he'll continue to be exposed if Jokipakka is his partner. I do think he'll score more being out from under Hartley, but the net gain from what he gives up is overstated IMO. If you're a top 20 point producer and bottom 20 scoring chance conceder(as he was this past season), the value I guess comes out on the only special teams he's able to play (PP). I'd put him in the same bus as Barrie with less defensive ability and maybe Shattenkirk with a bit less PP ability

Gio looked like **** for far longer than the time he played with Hamilton. Brodie came back by game 11 or so and Gio wasn't himself for another 10-20 games after that. Like, astonishingly bad. I can recall several occasions where he had the puck in his own zone while the other team was changing, and misfired on simple breakout passes by 20-30 feet. He also skipped a few tests in fitness testing and wasn't taking slapshots at all until the very end of training camp, so even once his biceps was healthy enough to go all out his hand-eye was way off for a long time.

Hamilton's defensive ability is a major question mark for sure, but it's hard to say how much of a role Hartley played in that. Hamilton said in several interviews that it was a big adjustment in defensive style and I think that contributed a lot to his looking lost in his own zone. He showed some glimpses of unreal defensive ability - one shift comes to mind where he completely shut down Ovechkin and Backstrom - stopped them at the blueline three times with great stickwork and made some great breakout passes under pressure.

We'll see what happens with Gulutzan - it was such a striking difference watching the Flames play teams like Toronto and Carolina. Not overly talented rosters, but to a man they were great at getting sticks in lanes and tying up in front of the net, whereas it almost looked like Hartley explicitly told the D not to tie guys up in front of the net.

 

[Blitzago*]

It's pretty easy to hate what they do though. Chia/Lowe/MacT/Katz/Katz Jr really only either make terrible hockey moves or get lucky at the draft lottery. What exactly is there to praise?

You clearly don't follow the oilers.

Chia has made several good moves

He brought in a capable starting goaltender
Brought in maroon and lucic which will give our team an identity that we won't get run out of our own building anymore

Trading Taylor hall for larsson will end up making the team better, going from a player that we would have as our top pairing RD to larsson will be a much bigger upgrade than the downgrade from hall to lucic

 

[Major Happy*]

You clearly don't follow the oilers.

Chia has made several good moves

He brought in a capable starting goaltender
Brought in maroon and lucic which will give our team an identity that we won't get run out of our own building anymore

Trading Taylor hall for larsson will end up making the team better, going from a player that we would have as our top pairing RD to larsson will be a much bigger upgrade than the downgrade from hall to lucic

Trading Hall for a 2nd pairing d-man, no matter how you spin it is a terrible trade.

 

[AMDZen]

I say a tier below Barrie and close to Shattenkirk, no slouches

I don't know what this is supposed to be saying exactly but Shattenkirk is better than Barrie, and I am one of Barrie's biggest supporters. Not to mention comparing Larsson and Hamilton to Barrie and Shattenkirk is apples and oranges any way, as the former two are much different dmen to the latter.

As for Larsson. He is obviously better than Hamilton and anyone who would argue otherwise as though Hamilton is far and away better is just asinine. Par for the course in HF

 

[Johnnybegood13]

As for Larsson. He is obviously better than Hamilton and anyone who would argue otherwise as though Hamilton is far and away better is just asinine. Par for the course in HF

Larsson couldn't even stay away from the minors until last season, Hamilton was good enough to never play in the AHL.

Hamilton:
Superior Skater despite being 6'6 225lbs
Superior Offensive skills including shot,passing and IQ

Larsson
Better defensive positioning
Far better hitter

Larsson's upside is a good #2-3, Hamilton's is a #1.

 

[goonybird]

Larsson couldn't even stay away from the minors until last season, Hamilton was good enough to never play in the AHL.

Hamilton:
Superior Skater despite being 6'6 225lbs
Superior Offensive skills including shot,passing and IQ

Larsson
Better defensive positioning
Far better hitter

Larsson's upside is a good #2-3, Hamilton's is a #1.

He went from the minors to leading the top pairing for the Devils against the league's toughest competition.

What's that tell you about his being sent to the minors.

Hamilton's defending?

*tremendously deafening fart noise*

 

[McNuge]

Larsson couldn't even stay away from the minors until last season, Hamilton was good enough to never play in the AHL.

Hamilton:
Superior Skater despite being 6'6 225lbs
Superior Offensive skills including shot,passing and IQ

Larsson
Better defensive positioning
Far better hitter

Larsson's upside is a good #2-3, Hamilton's is a #1.

So let me get this straight... you think the player who has been tasked with the hardest defensive responsibility out of all the defense man in the ENTIRE league is a #2-3, while the player who needed to be sheltered almost his entire career, baring a few spurts, is a #1.

Hamilton could be 7'6" but he would still be soft as butter. He can't hit, he can't really defend, but he can put up points. Please give me the #2-3...

I was upset as everyone when I found out about the trade, but now there is no doubt in my mind we got a hell of a defense man, and to be quite honest I would have been fine with the value if NJD had included a 2nd, but that is besides the point.

If any of you think that Dougie Hamilton would have got you Taylor Hall I think you are delusional.

 

[DJJones]

Hamilton could be 7'6" but he would still be soft as butter. He can't hit, he can't really defend, but he can put up points. Please give me the #2-3...

That right there makes me think you don't even watch Hamilton. Sure he's not Reghyr but he is not soft in anyway. Brodie is soft for comparison. Hamilton makes some big hits and is very strong on the boards and in front of the net.

Larsson got put out against the best competition because Shlemko was their 5th best defense haha. Larsson and Greene got lit up stat wise and we're saved by Schneider. I literally just watched every goal he's ever scored and he has one goal from the point. Four of them are almost from the crease, why is he even there haha.

I'm happy with saying both are #3's with different styles but losing against top competition isn't a valuable trait.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

That right there makes me think you don't even watch Hamilton. Sure he's not Reghyr but he is not soft in anyway. Brodie is soft for comparison. Hamilton makes some big hits and is very strong on the boards and in front of the net.

Larsson got put out against the best competition because Shlemko was their 5th best defense haha. Larsson and Greene got lit up stat wise and we're saved by Schneider. I literally just watched every goal he's ever scored and he has one goal from the point. Four of them are almost from the crease, why is he even there haha.

I'm happy with saying both are #3's with different styles but losing against top competition isn't a valuable trait.

pot meet kettle

 

[BB88]

Larsson couldn't even stay away from the minors until last season, Hamilton was good enough to never play in the AHL.

Hamilton:
Superior Skater despite being 6'6 225lbs
Superior Offensive skills including shot,passing and IQ

Larsson
Better defensive positioning
Far better hitter

Larsson's upside is a good #2-3, Hamilton's is a #1.

I just can't see how Hamilton is someone you want to build your defense around, and I'd say Larsson is #2D today.

I think Chia is pretty happy how things have went roster wise during the last 12+ months.
I'd rather have Larsson than Hamilton.

 

[DJJones]

pot meet kettle

Larsson's goals for next year;
Score his first PP goal!
Beat Engelland at points/60

Maybe he can ask McDavid to bank a couple off his back.

 

[McNuge]

That right there makes me think you don't even watch Hamilton. Sure he's not Reghyr but he is not soft in anyway. Brodie is soft for comparison. Hamilton makes some big hits and is very strong on the boards and in front of the net.

Larsson got put out against the best competition because Shlemko was their 5th best defense haha. Larsson and Greene got lit up stat wise and we're saved by Schneider. I literally just watched every goal he's ever scored and he has one goal from the point. Four of them are almost from the crease, why is he even there haha.

I'm happy with saying both are #3's with different styles but losing against top competition isn't a valuable trait.

Yes I know that... that is why I am saying Larsson is better than Hamilton. One played against top competition and flourished while the other needed his hand held when the big boys came out.

 

[goonybird]

Larsson's goals for next year;
Score his first PP goal!
Beat Engelland at points/60

Maybe he can ask McDavid to bank a couple off his back.

ya that has a whole lot to do with what he posted /s

not like he played on the powerplay, so I'm not sure why you'd expect him to have powerplay goals but ok

Actually. Why do you expect him to have powerplay goals with 0 minutes on the powerplay? That seems odd to me. Anyone else? Is Larsson a quantum defenceman? Is this a category of player I haven't heard of before?

 

[Jumptheshark]

Trading Hall for a 2nd pairing d-man, no matter how you spin it is a terrible trade.

When you look at it as 1 for 1. But you look at the bigger picture the deal is not that bad. Hall out, lucic-Larsson and the firSt rounder they added. To understanD some trade you need to look at other moves made.

 

[DJJones]

ya that has a whole lot to do with what he posted /s

not like he played on the powerplay, so I'm not sure why you'd expect him to have powerplay goals but ok

Actually. Why do you expect him to have powerplay goals with 0 minutes on the powerplay? That seems odd to me. Anyone else? Is Larsson a quantum defenceman? Is this a category of player I haven't heard of before?

A quantum defenceman?

I was more pointing out that why the hell is a top line pairing defenseman getting 11 minutes of PP in a whole year. Is there any other top pairing player in the league that isn't trusted on the PP?

 

[Kitchener Boy]

Hamilton is a poor defender that can score points.

Rather have Larsson better defenseman.

 

[McNuge]

ya that has a whole lot to do with what he posted /s

not like he played on the powerplay, so I'm not sure why you'd expect him to have powerplay goals but ok

Actually. Why do you expect him to have powerplay goals with 0 minutes on the powerplay? That seems odd to me. Anyone else? Is Larsson a quantum defenceman? Is this a category of player I haven't heard of before?

Uhm what's so odd about that? He was a 4th overall draft pick he SHOULD be producing on the PP REGARDLESS if he doesn't play on it... NO EXCUSES!!

 

[Gecklund]

You wouldn't have Larsson because Chia wouldn't see it as much of a need. Obviously you would still need a RHD but I doubt he would go for Larsson, probably a lower quality player. Also since you didn't trade Hall you probably wouldn't have gone for Lucic. You probably would have to trade someone like Eberle/RNH to clear the cap space of Hall+Hamilton. Just speculating though.

 

[McNuge]

A quantum defenceman?

I was more pointing out that why the hell is a top line pairing defenseman getting 11 minutes of PP in a whole year. Is there any other top pairing player in the league that isn't trusted on the PP?

He didn't play on the PP because he was on their shutdown pairing. 70% D zone starts and ample PK time. He was more important to the Devils in terms of stopping the puck going in there net rather putting in the other net.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Larsson's goals for next year;
Score his first PP goal!
Beat Engelland at points/60

Maybe he can ask McDavid to bank a couple off his back.

cool, Hamilton scores more than Larsson

Larsson knows how to defend better than Hamilton and is trusted by his coach a ton more on the defensive side

 

[ManofSteel55]

Larsson's goals for next year;
Score his first PP goal!
Beat Engelland at points/60

Maybe he can ask McDavid to bank a couple off his back.

Hard to score powerplay goals when you don't get any powerplay time. And its hard to put up points at all when you are getting your zone starts in the defensive end almost exclusively while playing for a team that had no forwards consistently scoring. But ya, points points points. Why don't you go ask New Jersey fans if they are happy that they lost Larsson. I have, they are glad to have Hall but not happy that they had to move a young top pairing defenseman.

 

[2023FriendshipTour]

Larsson is not a top pairing D Man and will be shredded on a poor D Edmonton team. Hamilton isn't a top paring D man either.

 

[Kanye]

Cool. Oiler fans like Larsson. Flames fans like Hamilton.

 

[belair]

Larsson is not a top pairing D Man and will be shredded on a poor D Edmonton team. Hamilton isn't a top paring D man either.

Love the logic.

"The Oilers suck, their defense is awful!"

Oilers go get a good defenseman...

"That defenseman sucks now. He's going to be shredded because the Oilers defense is awful."

It's the defense that can never improve, apparently.