Speculation: Looking back on the Hamilton trade , should the Oilers have gave up Nurse

[48g90a138pts]

Interesting topic but...

There was no hope in hell the Bruins were going to make a trade with Chiarelli last year no matter what we were offering.

If a trade was going to happen around Nurse at the time, never a sane man would have done that trade.

Wish Chiarelli would have picked up 2 RHD with those two picks instead of getting Rhinehart. I would stress alot less if he had.

 

[Halla]

edmonton would be playoff bound with that top 4...
the wasted assets on reinhart hurts.

 

[Roof Daddy]

The mental gymnastics Oilers fans go through to convince themselves that Larsson is better than Hamilton or that Darnell Nurse will be a #3 shutdown defenseman is very amusing to me.

It's nearly on par with Isles fans convincing themselves Strome is a proven top 6 talent despite disappearing offensively while playing with John freaking Tavares.

You're seriously going to close the book on Nurse after his rookie season? Should we pencil in Pulock as a bottom pair PP specialist for the rest of his career as well?

 

[Brock Radunske]

It's nearly on par with Isles fans convincing themselves Strome is a proven top 6 talent despite disappearing offensively while playing with John freaking Tavares.

You're seriously going to close the book on Nurse after his rookie season? Should we pencil in Pulock as a bottom pair PP specialist for the rest of his career as well?

well, technically he'd be an AHL PP specialist...

 

[belair]

The mental gymnastics Oilers fans go through to convince themselves that Larsson is better than Hamilton or that Darnell Nurse will be a #3 shutdown defenseman is very amusing to me.

Nostradamus, everybody.

 

[McFlyingV]

It's nearly on par with Isles fans convincing themselves Strome is a proven top 6 talent despite disappearing offensively while playing with John freaking Tavares.

You're seriously going to close the book on Nurse after his rookie season? Should we pencil in Pulock as a bottom pair PP specialist for the rest of his career as well?

But but Pulock put up 3 points in 6 playoff games so he's already a proven 40 point dman. Thats pretty much the only way that you could come to the conclusion that Nurse is a write off as a #3D, but thinking that Pulock isn't.

Truth is that both of them will probably be good dmen.

As for the thread topic, yeah of course I'd do Nurse for Hamilton at the time of that trade, but it was rumoured that the ask was Nurse, 16 and 32 for him. Some people had way too high hopes that 16 was going to get a top pairing D on its own so I can understand why some scoffed at the idea at the time. I think the rumoured deal would have been an overpay, but it likely would have been worth it at the time for a RH offensive D. I still don't think that Hamilton will be anything more than a lower end #2, but at the end of the day I'm happy with Nurse and he's expansion exempt so that makes him even more valuable to us.

 

[major major]

I agree with OP, they should have given up Nurse.

But I don't know if it matters much to the Oilers success - my gut is that Hamilton is not the type of D to change around a defence, I see him more as an offensive specialist.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Hamilton/Hall = make the Oilers an easy soft team to play against...basically the Oilers since 2010. Add no defensive prowess to the team

Larsson/Lucic = make the Oilers and tougher team to play against. Lucic brings a winning attitude that the team will listen to..

I maybe in the minority, but I'll take Lars and Looch. And I was a big Hall fan, still am.

This isn't a bad representation. It's much closer than people are making it out to be. I am not a big fan of Hamilton as it is. Don't forget he was disastrous for 2/3 of the season with Calgary. I'd have to pick Hall >Lucic but I think i'd easily go Larsson over Hamilton. The gap isn't that big so it's hard to say what lineup gives the edge. No denying the Lucic toughness and pedigree and with a young McDavid it could really pay dividends. However, I thought Eberle was showing great chemistry with McDavid, i'm not so sure they don't keep them together.

 

[wintersej]

From a Bruins perspective, I am happy they ended up with Senyshyn, JFK and Lauzon instead.

 

[LeapOnOver]

It's nearly on par with Isles fans convincing themselves Strome is a proven top 6 talent despite disappearing offensively while playing with John freaking Tavares.

You're seriously going to close the book on Nurse after his rookie season? Should we pencil in Pulock as a bottom pair PP specialist for the rest of his career as well?

I don't know where you are getting that from. Just because Islander fans don't want to trade Strome for other teams scraps, doesn't mean we all think he's proven top 6. In fact, over on our boards most fans are confused about Strome and don't want to make any predictions on him until he sees minutes as a full time center. I've haven't seen anybody actually say he's a proven top 6 but in the scenario where a player puts up a bunch of points in his rookie season and then dips down and doesn't find his way again is a much smaller list than those who never put up many points and then suddenly explode.

I'm not high on Strome at all. I think he's still get top 6 potential but I don't think he'll be anything more than a soft player who needs to play with good players to succeed. Maybe his high side is Spezza and his low side is Josh Bailey.

 

[oilerbear]

who's to say the Hall/Larsson deal still goes down if Chia gets his top pairing D in Hamilton.

That's a really nice top 4 though.

Of the top 300 goal scorers 27 are dmen.
Those dmen get 6% of the 3242 goals.

Ofence is almost completely driven by the top 9 forwards in the game.

The only offensive ability you need from dmen is passing the forwards the d...... Puck.

PC is most concerned with defending the area 1/3 of a games shots gets 75% of the goals.
Larson was the best in the game the last 2 seasons.
Davidson was top 30
Nurse was second worst in the league.
Hamilton was 3rd worst in the league.
Reinhardt was superior to hamilton defensively

What matters is how many forwards can outscore a dmans defence.
Dmen like nurse, hamilton, giordano, Faulk.
The answer is almost none!

The best in the game Larson
All teams top 9 forwards.

Schnieder said he lost "the" player that makes a goalies job easy.

Klefbom top 30 even assists.
Larsson top 40

Hamilton's Boston career saw him be -1 per game against the best of west.
That is worse than
Larsson
Davidson
Klefbom
Fayne
Sekera

 

[oilerbear]

The more a dman directly drives offence the less likely a goal is scored.
3.8 times less likely.
Offensive dmen often abandon the defensive structure required to be cup competetive.

 

[Padlock]

Of the top 300 goal scorers 27 are dmen.
Those dmen get 6% of the 3242 goals.

Ofence is almost completely driven by the top 9 forwards in the game.

The only offensive ability you need from dmen is passing the forwards the d...... Puck.

PC is most concerned with defending the area 1/3 of a games shots gets 75% of the goals.
Larson was the best in the game the last 2 seasons.
Davidson was top 30
Nurse was second worst in the league.
Hamilton was 3rd worst in the league.
Reinhardt was superior to hamilton defensively

What matters is how many forwards can outscore a dmans defence.
Dmen like nurse, hamilton, giordano, Faulk.
The answer is almost none!

The best in the game Larson
All teams top 9 forwards.

Schnieder said he lost "the" player that makes a goalies job easy.

Klefbom top 30 even assists.
Larsson top 40

Hamilton's Boston career saw him be -1 per game against the best of west.
That is worse than
Larsson
Davidson
Klefbom
Fayne
Sekera

You can't seriously believe the stuff you write

 

[thadd]

Hamilton, Larson, Lucic > Nurse, Hall, Reinhart

That's pretty easy to see... but Edmonton is eating a lot more cap space there.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Ya so would I.

Neither Hamilton or Larsson are at either of those extremes yet though.

Could happen for both of them, not as big of a fan of Burns as most are. Revolving door high event hockey. Entertaining but is it the most effective? Stop high end chances and get the puck moving the other way. Burns only does the latter

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

You can't seriously believe the stuff you write

what did you disagree with?

he's always got his numbers in weird display but train of thought isn't out of line. He's saying if Hamilton gives up more than what he creates in terms of HDSCA and expected GF%, is he a top end D? I personally think he's a strong #3D if he's paired with a high end box protection D ala Methot or his old buddy Chara.

 

[snipes]

I'm happy with Nurse. Develop your own top 4 they've been telling us forever, that's what we're doing.

Nurse will be a beastly #3 and 2nd pairing stalwart who shuts other teams down and plays on the PK. I'm fine with Nurse and what he brings to the make up of our team. He'll have a long career in an Oiler uniform and be frightening once he hits 25.

 

[Mr Positive]

edmonton would be playoff bound with that top 4...
the wasted assets on reinhart hurts.

reports of Reinhart's demise are vastly over stated. He's still a very good prospect.

It's not like we had a choice between Hamilton and Reinhart, and picked Reinhart. Hamilton was likely never available to us. Probably no veteran D for sale either.

 

[Major Happy*]

reports of Reinhart's demise are vastly over stated. He's still a very good prospect.

It's not like we had a choice between Hamilton and Reinhart, and picked Reinhart. Hamilton was likely never available to us. Probably no veteran D for sale either.

Reinhart is far from a very good prospect, he still has top 4 potential, but his limited offensive potential and foot speed are huge question marks.

 

[snipes]

Reinhart is far from a very good prospect, he still has top 4 potential, but his limited offensive potential and foot speed are huge question marks.

Fair points. He's a defensive defenceman. His skating needs work, but he has high hockey IQ and can read the game at an NHL level. His hockey IQ will keep him in the NHL well into his 30s.

 

[DraberlyakMcHallkins*]

Fair points. He's a defensive defenceman. His skating needs work, but he has high hockey IQ and can read the game at an NHL level. His hockey IQ will keep him in the NHL well into his 30s.

His topspeed and acceleration aren't a problem in my eyes, just gotta improve that lateral movement/agility. Part of me wonders if he could *Davidson* this year, he's damn smart. Part of me prefers him to Nurse, but he DID get a year in the AHL. Nurse was just thrown to the wolves at 20

 

[Blitzago*]

You can't seriously believe the stuff you write

I am still trying to decipher what his stats always mean, and im a damn oilers fan.

Seeing how cherry picked they are though is pretty amusing.

 

[Blitzago*]

The mental gymnastics Oilers fans go through to convince themselves that Larsson is better than Hamilton or that Darnell Nurse will be a #3 shutdown defenseman is very amusing to me.

But he is though? Hamilton is terrible against top competition, where as Larsson is very good

 

[snipes]

His topspeed and acceleration aren't a problem in my eyes, just gotta improve that lateral movement/agility. Part of me wonders if he could *Davidson* this year, he's damn smart. Part of me prefers him to Nurse, but he DID get a year in the AHL. Nurse was just thrown to the wolves at 20

His peers (for example: Theodore, Morrisey, Morin, Pulock, Zadarov, etc.) would have struggled just as much or more being thrown to the wolves without sheltering last season. Nurse played over 20 mins/game (more than any rookie his age or younger, at any position).

Nurse will be just fine. He's put on some serious size to an already impressive frame, he looks like he could be a pro football linebacker or MMA fighter. Risto and Jones are ahead of him, but after that I don't see any of his peers doing better than he did if they were in the same situation as him.

Let's not forget, Nurse was the best shutdown Dman at the 2015 WJC. He was the Gold Medal game MVP and wasn't on the ice for a single even strength goal against all tournament!

 

[Major Happy*]

But he is though? Hamilton is terrible against top competition, where as Larsson is very good

Hamilton is twice the player Larsson is, lol