Confirmed with Link: Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

[Jerkini]

If it goes through it absolutely helps the Leafs and about 10 other teams. But it will kill most of the league.

It would be nice to freely enter into negotiations with the likes of Stamkos, Weber, et al. I wonder if Burke would be 'encouraged' by his new bosses to offer longer contracts or if we would left empty handed with all the other money teams offering longer deals.

The Leafs have been a laughing stock with fans of other teams for so many years. It would be poetic justice as far as i'm concerned.

 

[Anthrax442]

This is a smart move on behalf of the players.

As long as they can stay united without a formal organization they are going to be individually and collectively very powerful.

NHL Files Class Action Compliant

In response to information that NHL Players have or will be asked to vote to authorize the NHLPA's Executive Board to proceed to "disclaim interest" in continuing to represent the Players in collective bargaining, the NHL filed a Class Action Complaint in Federal Court in New York seeking a Declaration confirming the ongoing legality of the lockout.

With the filing of its Complaint, the NHL also filed an Unfair Labor Practice Charge with the National Labor Relations Board alleging that by threatening to "disclaim interest," the NHLPA has engaged in an unlawful subversion of the collective bargaining process and conduct that constitutes bad faith bargaining under the National Labor Relations

 

[Anthrax442]

This is going exactly how guys that know how the labout law works have predicted. Step by step. The NHL files preemptively, so the further lawsuit has to be heard in NY, a state that is tougher on Unions than Minnesota or California. Next step - union decertifies or whatever the other option is.

 

[Kurtz]

What the owners may not be happy about is anti-trust law suits.



If Fehr ends up getting the players 3 X lost wages I think the players will be happy. Owners would probably tar and feather Bettman shortly thereafter.

Ah, very clever by Fehr. Cause the players to lose as much money as possible, thereby increasing their gain with the " 3x lost wages" lawsuit.

Very clever indeed, Don.

 

[4evaBlue]

If Fehr ends up getting the players 3 X lost wages I think the players will be happy. Owners would probably tar and feather Bettman shortly thereafter.

That would apply to 2-3 players in the league. The rest of the stars would likely see a decent raise, while the white collar players would have to make due with major paycuts. Many of the bottom tier players would likely be cut from the league due to uncompetitive teams folding.

Then again, the PA is about the stars, so I guess they could consider it mission accomplished.

Likely ruling of any court case is PA using the courts as a ploy, and would result in the case getting thrown out. I believe this happened with another league in the past.

 

[ULF_55]

That would apply to 2-3 players in the league. The rest of the stars would likely see a decent raise, while the white collar players would have to make due with major paycuts. Many of the bottom tier players would likely be cut from the league due to uncompetitive teams folding.

Then again, the PA is about the stars, so I guess they could consider it mission accomplished.

Well, I do think viewers are more interested in seeing Phil Kessel than Joey Crabb.

 

[Warden of the North]

This is a smart move on behalf of the players.

As long as they can stay united without a formal organization they are going to be individually and collectively very powerful.

Not really. They stand a very real chance of losing the lawsuit in which case the owners will come out much further ahead. The NHL knows exactly what its doing here.

And i highly doubt the PA could stay unified long enough to see this through

 

[4evaBlue]

Well, I do think viewers are more interested in seeing Phil Kessel than Joey Crabb.

You're absolutely right. You can't have a league that has 30 stars, and no other players, though. The gap between star players and white collar players was growing wider recently (career earnings, not necessarily cap hit during their primes), and voiding the CBA would drastically increase it.

It's funny that the reason players seem to be against the 5 year term limit is the majority of the players having to fight over leftover cap space after the stars are done taking their share, but they think that desertification wouldn't lead to much less favorable conditions for most players.

 

[Anthrax442]

 

[Warden of the North]

If it goes through it absolutely helps the Leafs and about 10 other teams. But it will kill most of the league.

It would be nice to freely enter into negotiations with the likes of Stamkos, Weber, et al. I wonder if Burke would be 'encouraged' by his new bosses to offer longer contracts or if we would left empty handed with all the other money teams offering longer deals.

There isnt a team in the league that could out bid the Leafs on anyone.

Rogers was paying Vernon Wells 22m a year. How much would they pay for Stamkos or Crosby?

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

fehr, it's all ur fault, im not a fan of gary, but IMO, he has atlesat tried to get something done. fehr is plain evil

Owners will never play without a cba ever again... all because of Fehr's strike before the world series.
With the nhl's last cba, half of the owners lost money, while the players average salary almost doubled.

So having NO cba is impossible, because of Fehr's previous actions.
And the last cba is dramatically unfair for the owners.

When the owners make a proposal, Fehr says "It's just the players giving... we are offered nothing".
I actually get so angry when I read that ******** that I actualy punched a hole in my wall. I can't ****ing stand hearing him say that.
IN THE LAST CBA HALF OTHE OWNERS LOST MONEY WHILE THE PLAYERS AVERAGE SALARY ALMOST DOUBLED!!!!!
Of COURSE the players should be giving and the owners taking in the next cba.
It's entirely Fehr's fault. He's the problem. 100%

 

[Morbo]

The owners have offered absolutely nothing in exchange for across the board takebacks.

That is not bargaining.

The players, lacking a negotiating partner, are going to have to take this to the courts it appears.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

The owners have offered absolutely nothing in exchange for across the board takebacks.

That is not bargaining.

Like all N.A. sports, the owners need a cba.

On the last cba, half of the owners lost money, while the players salary almost doubled in 7 years.

Why on earth would this go any other way than the player takebacks?

 

[anderson3133]

Like all N.A. sports, the owners need a cba.

On the last cba, half of the owners lost money, while the players salary almost doubled in 7 years.

Why on earth would this go any other way than the player takebacks?

They're also taking back money previously agreed upon, RFA status requirements, contract lengths, trying to re-word HRR, etc.

Most negotiations follow a "give and take" type of method where both parties try to reach a greater good by sacrificing some things on each respective side. Nothing is going to get done if the NHL is taking back every aspect of the previous CBA.

 

[Warden of the North]

The owners have offered absolutely nothing in exchange for across the board takebacks.

That is not bargaining.

The players, lacking a negotiating partner, are going to have to take this to the courts it appears.

They're also taking back money previously agreed upon, RFA status requirements, contract lengths, trying to re-word HRR, etc.

Most negotiations follow a "give and take" type of method where both parties try to reach a greater good by sacrificing some things on each respective side. Nothing is going to get done if the NHL is taking back every aspect of the previous CBA.

It is conceivable that several teams will fold without changes. The PA has to give up a lot to save their own jobs.

 

[anderson3133]

It is conceivable that several teams will fold without changes. The PA has to give up a lot to save their own jobs.

Absolutely. It's weird how they're both at each others throats despite having the same goal: keep the sinking ships afloat

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

They're also taking back money previously agreed upon, RFA status requirements, contract lengths, trying to re-word HRR, etc.

Most negotiations follow a "give and take" type of method where both parties try to reach a greater good by sacrificing some things on each respective side. Nothing is going to get done if the NHL is taking back every aspect of the previous CBA.

I agree that the nhl may be asking for too much.

The debate should be specifically how much the players should give up.
The playres should NEVER be asking "what do we get back in return".

 

[Warden of the North]

Here is the leagues complaint filed today

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/14/nhlvsnhlpa.pdf

Im no lawyer, but it appears to me they do a pretty good job of shooting down the idea of a legitimate desertification/disclaimer of interest.

I cant see how the PA will win this in court. It also appears Fehr allowing the players to run wild with twitter/media is going to come back to bite them HARD.
#54 is particular fun to read.

 

[Ari91]

Ah, very clever by Fehr. Cause the players to lose as much money as possible, thereby increasing their gain with the " 3x lost wages" lawsuit.

Very clever indeed, Don.

Antitrust claims only cover from the period in which the union was dissolved. If the players won their cases, they wouldn't be compensated for all the money lost during the lockout. They would be compensated for the money lost while being locked out for the period in which they were not a union (x3). We're looking at about half a season so if the PA wins, they would get half a season's worth of pay x 3 which would put them ahead by half a season, not 3 seasons worth of pay.

 

[ConnorTO]

so this kid... who gets payed $2


i presume he doesn't play professional hockey?

 

[kihei]

I can't imagine this stuff will actually get to court. On the other hand, I can't imagine, close as the two sides seem to be, why they couldn't have settled on a agreement rather than resorting to this senseless kind of sabre rattling. Common sense is long gone.

 

[charliolemieux]

Here is the leagues complaint filed today

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/14/nhlvsnhlpa.pdf

Im no lawyer, but it appears to me they do a pretty good job of shooting down the idea of a legitimate desertification/disclaimer of interest.

I cant see how the PA will win this in court. It also appears Fehr allowing the players to run wild with twitter/media is going to come back to bite them HARD.
#54 is particular fun to read.

14. In the event that the court does not grant the declarations described in paragraphs
9 through 13, the NHL requests a declaration that, if the NHLPA's decertification or disclaimer
were not deemed invalid by the NLRB, and the collective bargaining relationship between the
parties were not otherwise to continue, all existing contracts between NHL players and NHL
teams (known as Standard Player's Contracts or "SPCs") would be void and unenforceable.....

Nice.

26. ....(g) whether, assuming that the NHLPA's purported
decertification or disclaimer is not determined to be ineffective as a matter or federal labor law
and the collective bargaining relationship between the parties does not otherwise continue, the
SPCs are consequently void.

60. In this regard, the SPCs are a product of the CBA and an ongoing collective
bargaining relationship between the NHL and NHLPA. As such, in the absence of a valid CBA
or collective bargaining relationship, the provisions of the NHL SPCs will no longer have any
force or effect.

Haha.

So let's see if the players are willing to give up those nice fat contracts they have signed.

The NHL has the players by the short and curly's on several issues.

It seems like they have kept track of every comment made by a NHL player since this began.

It would also seem that players going to play over in Europe is going to hurt the NHLPA.

This is just getting going. Can't wait.

 

[ULF_55]

The object lesson here is don't buy products from companies who employ child/slave labour.

Nothing to do with NHLPA, everything to do with who you support, and if you buy products from those companies you support their practices.

Safest bet is to buy North American made products.

 

[ULF_55]

Like all N.A. sports, the owners need a cba.

On the last cba, half of the owners lost money, while the players salary almost doubled in 7 years.

Why on earth would this go any other way than the player takebacks?

The players have already said they are willing to give back.

They are willing to go longer on the CBA length.
They are willing to cap the length of individual contracts.
They are willing to reduce the amount a contract can move in back diving.
They are willing to split HRR-AE 50/50.

I don't know where this misconception of the players not giving back comes from.

 

[ULF_55]

It is conceivable that several teams will fold without changes. The PA has to give up a lot to save their own jobs.

Absolutely. It's weird how they're both at each others throats despite having the same goal: keep the sinking ships afloat

http://hookedonhockeymagazine.com/average-nhl-ticket-prices-for-2011-2012-season/

Average ticket prices (NHL $57):
Islanders $49, Dallas $30, Columbus $48, Phoenix $36


http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2012/sort/homePct

Reported attendance (usually not actuals):
Islanders 81%, Dallas 80%, Columbus 76%, Phoenix 72%

So how much lower do you want NHL tickets going for to get some actual butts into NHL arenas? On a gate driven business, it is about butts, not what your tv numbers are.