Confirmed with Link: Lockout continues Part V - Hockey cancelled till January 14th

[MapleLeafGardens*]

Forbes: NHL should be 20-team league

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/13/forbes_magazine_nhl_should_be_20_team_league/

Totaly agree the NHL should be a 20 team league.

The current on ice product sucks too many bad teams too many scrub players. Forbes is also correct in my opinion about how to solve the fundamental problems.

Quality over quantity FTW!

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

People view KHL as a bottomless pit. It's a 4 year old league that has a very crappy infrastructure, teams that are located in very tough to live for foreigners markets, they average under 6,000 fans across the league. Some owners have money, but the number of players they would sign for 5+ mil is extremely limited. (2-3).

That's brutal attendance for the KHL!

And Lupul says the food sucks over there too! lol

 

[Rare Jewel]

Forbes: NHL should be 20-team league

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/13/forbes_magazine_nhl_should_be_20_team_league/

So which ten go?

 

[Hurt]

So which ten go?

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/#page:3_sort:6_direction:desc_search: <-- Operating Income column.

I think it should be sorted right but if it's not, hit operating income and go to the last page. That would leave only 3 teams with negative operating incomes.

 

[MapleLeafGardens*]

So which ten go?

After a quick look around the NHL these 11 are either near bankrupt in bad markets and or are losing big money...i may have missed a few more...

Phoenix
Columbus
New York Islanders
Florida
Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Colorado
Carolina
Nashville
New Jersey

 

[Budsfan]

So which ten go?

Mess quoted an article that said something to the effect that 10 teams paid the HRR monies, 10 teams neither paid or received any HRR pay outs and 10 teams were taking the HRR pay outs, so it would be fair to assume the 10 teams taking the HRR pay outs, would be the teams axed.

There wasn't a list identifying those teams in their respective categories but some you can guess at, 2 that were identified in the article are St. Louis Blues and Florida Panthers, I can guess Phoenix and Dallas are 2 more but 3 teams that are not in the red ink are Toronto, Montreal and New York Rangers

 

[Budsfan]

After a quick look around the NHL these 11 are either near bankrupt in bad markets and or are losing big money...i may have missed a few more...

Phoenix
Columbus
New York Islanders
Florida
Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Colorado
Carolina
Nashville
New Jersey

I would assume those are the teams that are in trouble, St. Louis is iffy and probably loses a few dollars for the owners but probably they don't collect HRR but they possibly could be a team to go too.

 

[Hero]

10 Teams doing worst financially

St. Louis
Phoenix
Columbus
New York I
Carolina
Nashville
Florida
Tampa Bay
Buffalo
Anaheim


imo.

Some easy first steps. Is small market teams that are close together can pool fan bases.

Phoenix + Dallas... Share the small Texas/Arizona fan base (keep team in Dal)

Tampa + Florida.... Share small Florida fan base

Columbus is cut and fans pool into Det or Pit

St. Louis + Nashville + Carolina... Share East Central fan base

Buffalo is cut and fans pool into Bos, Nyr, Phi, Njd

Nyi is cut and fans pool into NYR or other

Anaheim + San Jose.... Share small north Cali fan base (keep team in Sj)

8 less teams.

 

[ULF_55]

After a quick look around the NHL these 11 are either near bankrupt in bad markets and or are losing big money...i may have missed a few more...

Phoenix
Columbus
New York Islanders
Florida
Dallas
Anaheim
Tampa Bay
Colorado
Carolina
Nashville
New Jersey

Why wouldn't you relocate before contracting?

Get three more profitable teams, which automatically creates more revenue sharing.

Locations: Quebec, SWO, Seattle.

 

[Budsfan]

Why wouldn't you relocate before contracting?

Get three more profitable teams, which automatically creates more revenue sharing.

Locations: Quebec, SWO, Seattle.

I agree, probably out of the 10 teams they are talking about chopping, as many as half could relocate.

 

[anderson3133]

Why wouldn't you relocate before contracting?

Get three more profitable teams, which automatically creates more revenue sharing.

Locations: Quebec, SWO, Seattle.

That would create an even larger disparity in the cap situations simultaneously. We don't know if this would be an overall net gain or loss in the end.

 

[4evaBlue]

Why wouldn't you relocate before contracting?

Get three more profitable teams, which automatically creates more revenue sharing.

Locations: Quebec, SWO, Seattle.

I don't think those 3 teams being profitable is a given by any stretch of the imagination. When half of the Canadian teams are barely squeaking by, I'm not sure anywhere but Quebec city could sell out their arenas at ~$80-100 average ticket prices that it would take to make a team profitable.

 

[DD03]

I don't think those 3 teams being profitable is a given by any stretch of the imagination. When half of the Canadian teams are barely squeaking by, I'm not sure anywhere but Quebec city could sell out their arenas at ~$80-100 average ticket prices that it would take to make a team profitable.

Those Canadian cities can still sell out a building come playoff time.. Phoenix not so much.

 

[4evaBlue]

Those Canadian cities can still sell out a building come playoff time.. Phoenix not so much.

So that means they only lose $$ during the regular season?

 

[DD03]

So that means they only lose $$ during the regular season?

Very unlikely. Merchandise sales and the tv deals, plus ticket sales will already be better then the negatives in Phoenix.

 

[ULF_55]

I don't think those 3 teams being profitable is a given by any stretch of the imagination. When half of the Canadian teams are barely squeaking by, I'm not sure anywhere but Quebec city could sell out their arenas at ~$80-100 average ticket prices that it would take to make a team profitable.

You seriously are defending Phoenix over Quebec?

I think that is called a litmus test.

 

[reza87]

The Islanders will be a profitable team once it leaves Long Island.

Fact.

 

[charliolemieux]

The Islanders will be a profitable team once it leaves Long Island.

Fact.

WE'll see. But I hope so. Proud franchise. (before Milbury)

 

[4evaBlue]

You seriously are defending Phoenix over Quebec?

I think that is called a litmus test.

Not at all. You either misread, or I didn't phrase it correctly. I said with the exception of Quebec, I doubt the other locations could sell out their buildings on a regular basis with ticket prices that would be required to make the team profitable. The operating expenses are just too high.

Let me phrase it another way. Don't you think the business is in trouble when the best they can hope for is that a relocation results in the team breaking even?

Very unlikely. Merchandise sales and the tv deals, plus ticket sales will already be better then the negatives in Phoenix.

Just because a team would do better in a different location than they do in PHX doesn't automatically make it a successful franchise. Let's set the bar a little higher than that.

Exibit A: Jets' honeymoon period. 2nd most expensive ticket prices in the league, solid hockey market, tons of merchandise sales initially (likely to drop as time goes on), didn't even spend to the cap, yet they had a hard time breaking the $10M mark.

 

[ULF_55]

Not at all. You either misread, or I didn't phrase it correctly. I said with the exception of Quebec, I doubt the other locations could sell out their buildings on a regular basis with ticket prices that would be required to make the team profitable. The operating expenses are just too high.

Let me phrase it another way. Don't you think the business is in trouble when the best they can hope for is that a relocation results in the team breaking even?

Just because a team would do better in a different location than they do in PHX doesn't automatically make it a successful franchise. Let's set the bar a little higher than that.

Exibit A: Jets' honeymoon period. 2nd most expensive ticket prices in the league, solid hockey market, tons of merchandise sales initially (likely to drop as time goes on), didn't even spend to the cap, yet they had a hard time breaking the $10M mark.

I don't think there'd be a problem in Quebec or Southwestern Ontario with a new team.

SWO might poach some from the Leafs, but that would just mean some less profit for MLSE which is just fine. Remember it is about league strength not about whether the most profitable individual club makes more money.

AND there will be a 50/50 split of HRR-AE, and the buildings would be in hockey markets, not baseball, football, and basketball markets.

This is all so simple. We aren't talking about moving successful NHL franchises.

 

[4evaBlue]

I don't think there'd be a problem in Quebec or Southwestern Ontario with a new team.

Quebec would also cut into the Habs profit margins, not only by taking some of the fanbase away, but potentially messing with the exclusive RDS contract. Regardless, Quebec would be able to stand on its feet, and get by like the Oilers/Flames/Jets, but I don't think they'd thrive like the Leafs/Habs/Rags/Canucks.

I don't believe there are any other places left where a franchise could generate a healthy profit under the last CBA's rules.

SWO might poach some from the Leafs, but that would just mean some less profit for MLSE which is just fine. Remember it is about league strength not about whether the most profitable individual club makes more money.

The question is, will enough Leafs fans flock over to augment the locals for a solid fanbase? Maybe, maybe not.

AND there will be a 50/50 split of HRR-AE, and the buildings would be in hockey markets, not baseball, football, and basketball markets.

A bit like the Jets? I know the Blue Bombers draw a decent crowd, but the overlap is pretty minimal when considering the two league's schedules. The Winnipeg market isn't exactly over-saturated, and they still have a hard time spending to the cap.

This is all so simple. We aren't talking about moving successful NHL franchises.

Right, we're talking about folding a bunch of teams, and moving the rest to locations where they could at least break even. The bar is set pretty low when teams like PHX/NYI are used as a measuring stick.

 

[Budsfan]

Obama addresses NHL lockout stalemate

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/13/nhl_labour_update_dec13/

"My message to owners and to players is, 'You guys make a lot of money and you make a lot of money on the backs of fans, so do right by your fans. You can figure out how to spread out a bunch of revenue that you're bringing in, but do right by the people who support you,"' Obama said. "And I shouldn't have to be involved in a dispute between really wealthy players and even wealthier owners. They should be able to settle this themselves. And remember who it is that's putting all that money in their pockets."

 

[Anthrax442]

That's brutal attendance for the KHL!

And Lupul says the food sucks over there too! lol

That's my point. Hockey is not #1 popular sport in Russia. It's probably tied for #2 with basketball. Soccer is everything.

and the food doesnt suck, it's different, but it's same pork and potatoes base as the rest of Eastern Europe. Weird that Lupul has Ukrainian roots and the food freaks him out?

 

[Anthrax442]

Obama addresses NHL lockout stalemate

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-lockout/2012/12/13/nhl_labour_update_dec13/

His message should have been: Get a deal done by the weekend, or I will get the IRS to audit every player, coach, GM, owner, their friends and family. Every week that passes by will tack on another year to be audited.

 

[DD03]

His message should have been: Get a deal done by the weekend, or I will get the IRS to audit every player, coach, GM, owner, their friends and family. Every week that passes by will tack on another year to be audited.

What he said is good enough. He's saying they need to start putting the fans first, and not themselves.