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dethomas07 said:
its def not a ridiculous system.. look at last year.. players are just off this year and are lacking that tenaciousness and hunger attitude they had last year.. gab had 41gs last year how is that based off a poor system.. players are out of position, not dictating the pace of play and on most nights if not all are playing flat at the start of the games, get down and when they get going its to late.. enough with torts hate and system.. it has nothing to do with that.. players are playing flat and tentative instead of attacking.. cut the ****, you cant say its the system when you see barely your top guys moving their legs and battling for loose pucks.. give it up.. watch the game.. not the scoreboard..
Click to expand...

it could very well be the system. like you said.. players are playing flat and tentative. perhaps, they just dont care to play the system any longer. It certainly seems like both Gaborik and Hank are fed up with it.
 
At Montreal they responded well on the quick goal they scored, some lines looked good, here Torts need to chill down and let them just play.
He just confusing the players.

Try out something at practice and let the same guys play with for a whole game.
 
It is the system.

Why? Because its obvious the team outside of 3 players dont want to play in it, and frankly, I dont blame them. Its **** to play, and **** to watch.

Last year worked because it was a perfect storm, and the mentality of the team taking "the next step" was there.

That **** doesnt last long.
 
dethomas07 said:
its def not a ridiculous system.. look at last year.. players are just off this year and are lacking that tenaciousness and hunger attitude they had last year.. gab had 41gs last year how is that based off a poor system.. players are out of position, not dictating the pace of play and on most nights if not all are playing flat at the start of the games, get down and when they get going its to late.. enough with torts hate and system.. it has nothing to do with that.. players are playing flat and tentative instead of attacking.. cut the ****, you cant say its the system when you see barely your top guys moving their legs and battling for loose pucks.. give it up.. watch the game.. not the scoreboard..
Click to expand...

Sorry if you think this is a message with continuity, i'm writing in response to each of your points which also lack continuity:

I looked at and remember last year. We had the same goal scoring problems.

Lack of hunger attitude stems from the coach as much as it does the players. Just something else to keep in mind.

1 player scoring 41 goals is not an indication of a successful system, it is a testament to that player's abilities.

I don't have hate for Torts. However, his system is not what hockey is about. It actually ruins hockey in my opinion. We have pure goal scorers on this team who get benched for not having strong board play... The net is not along the boards, while that may be something to harp on in practice and try and improve on I doubt a consistent nightly benching of Chris Kreider, or Marion Gaborik, or whoever happens to find themselves in the doghouse will yield us much results. In addition, our coach makes no in game adjustments and bases the majority of his decisions on "gut feelings". When you keep sending Brad Richards out on the shoot out your gut is wrong, John.

Players are playing flat and tentative instead of attacking... Our system is not based on attacking. If forechecking is what you call attacking you have a gross misinterpretation of attacking in hockey. What the Penguins do, create incredibly consistent offensive zone chances... that's attacking. Pinning the puck behind the net with 3 skaters and then passing the puck along one side of the boards to the next to the point men until they shoot wide of the net in hope of a deflection... that's not attacking. If what you mean is our guys are not playing with energy? Yes, that would be a correct observation. But attacking? Our system inhibits the notion of attacking most nights. Get caught out of position up ice and you're likely losing ice time or being reamed out. Players are afraid to attack here.

"give it up... watch the game... not the scoreboard" :huh:

I'm watching the game. We look like ****. I'm also watching the scoreboard. It looks like **** (for us). The funny thing is, the scoreboard is usually a really good indicator of the team's game (consistently of course. I'm not talking about a 2 game sample size where we have 0 goals). We've beaten like 4 playoff teams this entire season. That's a scary statistic. We have the least goals in the league... that's a scary statistic. I don't see your point. Our "game" looks like ****. Our moral looks like ****. Maybe, just maybe, its cause our system is **** too...
 
kenjets36 said:
Sorry if you think this is a message with continuity, i'm writing in response to each of your points which also lack continuity:

I looked at and remember last year. We had the same goal scoring problems.

Lack of hunger attitude stems from the coach as much as it does the players. Just something else to keep in mind.

1 player scoring 41 goals is not an indication of a successful system, it is a testament to that player's abilities.

I don't have hate for Torts. However, his system is not what hockey is about. It actually ruins hockey in my opinion. We have pure goal scorers on this team who get benched for not having strong board play... The net is not along the boards, while that may be something to harp on in practice and try and improve on I doubt a consistent nightly benching of Chris Kreider, or Marion Gaborik, or whoever happens to find themselves in the doghouse will yield us much results. In addition, our coach makes no in game adjustments and bases the majority of his decisions on "gut feelings". When you keep sending Brad Richards out on the shoot out your gut is wrong, John.

Players are playing flat and tentative instead of attacking... Our system is not based on attacking. If forechecking is what you call attacking you have a gross misinterpretation of attacking in hockey. What the Penguins do, create incredibly consistent offensive zone chances... that's attacking. Pinning the puck behind the net with 3 skaters and then passing the puck along one side of the boards to the next to the point men until they shoot wide of the net in hope of a deflection... that's not attacking. If what you mean is our guys are not playing with energy? Yes, that would be a correct observation. But attacking? Our system inhibits the notion of attacking most nights. Get caught out of position up ice and you're likely losing ice time or being reamed out. Players are afraid to attack here.

"give it up... watch the game... not the scoreboard" :huh:

I'm watching the game. We look like ****. I'm also watching the scoreboard. It looks like **** (for us). The funny thing is, the scoreboard is usually a really good indicator of the team's game (consistently of course. I'm not talking about a 2 game sample size where we have 0 goals). We've beaten like 4 playoff teams this entire season. That's a scary statistic. We have the least goals in the league... that's a scary statistic. I don't see your point. Our "game" looks like ****. Our moral looks like ****. Maybe, just maybe, its cause our system is **** too...
Click to expand...

It is hard to argue your points bc those are scary categories to be in.. we just dont have an identity.. and its tru about gabs abilities over system bc he played in the most defensive system in the NHL with Min and still had success.. your point is so true!..however the effort from him has to be better.. he paid to lead this team offensively as is Richards.. I dont think its the system as much as its these guys not being successful and contributing.. our success is based off of how well they are playing.. if our top scorer and 1c arent playing well we arent goign to go anywhere.. and Forechecking is everything in this league... if you have a good forecheck you dictate the game and you either get possession of the puck or create turn overs into chances.. thats not an issue..

but i like your points.. i think theres so much going on right now.. sooner or later somethings going to have to change..

Would you guys trade something around Gaborik, top prospect, and 3rd (FL) for Pavelski+

next year buyout richards if possible.. just thinking outside the box for fun, not that its possible..

Hags-Stepan-Nash
Zuk-Pavelski-Horton (sign him)
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
(sign him) Torres-Boyle-Haley
 
Heyoooo* said:
It is the system.

Why? Because its obvious the team outside of 3 players dont want to play in it, and frankly, I dont blame them. Its **** to play, and **** to watch.

Last year worked because it was a perfect storm, and the mentality of the team taking "the next step" was there.

That **** doesnt last long.
Click to expand...

So whats the story with this group? They dont have an interest in taking the next step? Doesnt seem like any coach would have much luck with that.

No matter what system is played, some semblance of interest usually helps.
 
Lundsanity30 said:
The lines should be very simple.... hags-step-nash, kreider-richards-gaborik. Zucc-miller-callahan. Powe-boyle-asham and just leave them the **** alone
Click to expand...

totally agree. use pyatt on the fourth line sometimes. let them play and quit effing with their heads. these guys are more worried about missing a defensive assignment than scoring goals!
 
Torts needs to either play Kreider in top 6/ top 9 minutes or send him down this is no way to develop a prospect and its becoming a joke, him realizing miller can't be trusted is a start but I can't say the same for Kreider, dudes going to make mistakes but IMO his small defensive mistakes are outweighed by his offensive potential, which can't come to fruition playing on the fourth line for 6 minutes.
 
Nash needs to stay on the LW... That's the top line LW this team needs.. especially when you already got Gabby and Cally on the RW.

LW - Nash, Hags, Kreider, Miller
RW - Gabs, Cally, Zucc
C - Stepan, Richards, ?, Boyle
 
Fast's addition to roster does not require a send-down to #AHL. Rangers had 22 active after sending Newbury back down to @CTWhale
Click to expand...
-NYDNRangers

The great Newbury demotion mystery solved.




EDIT: As is the bottom 6 combinations mystery.

By jersey color, Fast is paired with Boyle and Pyatt. Green jerseys are Miller, Kreider, Powe, Asham #NYR
Click to expand...

-NYDNRangers
 
Last edited:
If Fast(h) sticks and the Rangers don't do anything at the deadline, I'm thinking Kreider sticks and Miller is sent down. Miller has made the more brutal defensive mistakes.

Although, Fast is yet another RW.
 
haohmaru said:
If Fast(h) sticks and the Rangers don't do anything at the deadline, I'm thinking Kreider sticks and Miller is sent down. Miller has made the more brutal defensive mistakes.

Although, Fast is yet another RW.
Click to expand...

You dream. Kreider is the first to go down, no way around it with this coach.

I suspect it might not happen until after Wednesday though, see what Sather does at the deadline and who Torts needs to keep around. Writing is on the wall though for both players, especially after last night's game and Torts' presser.
 
haohmaru said:
If Fast(h) sticks and the Rangers don't do anything at the deadline, I'm thinking Kreider sticks and Miller is sent down. Miller has made the more brutal defensive mistakes.

Although, Fast is yet another RW.
Click to expand...

Fortunately Fast is capable of playing on the left side as well. He has done it before and is comfortable there.
 
Andrew Gross @AGrossRecord
Torts says Jesper Fast skating with #NYR today just a function of team wanting to see him on ice, not indication he's playing tomorrow.
 
dethomas07 said:
It is hard to argue your points bc those are scary categories to be in.. we just dont have an identity.. and its tru about gabs abilities over system bc he played in the most defensive system in the NHL with Min and still had success.. your point is so true!..however the effort from him has to be better.. he paid to lead this team offensively as is Richards.. I dont think its the system as much as its these guys not being successful and contributing.. our success is based off of how well they are playing.. if our top scorer and 1c arent playing well we arent goign to go anywhere.. and Forechecking is everything in this league... if you have a good forecheck you dictate the game and you either get possession of the puck or create turn overs into chances.. thats not an issue..

but i like your points.. i think theres so much going on right now.. sooner or later somethings going to have to change..

Would you guys trade something around Gaborik, top prospect, and 3rd (FL) for Pavelski+

next year buyout richards if possible.. just thinking outside the box for fun, not that its possible..

Hags-Stepan-Nash
Zuk-Pavelski-Horton (sign him)
Kreider-Miller-Callahan
(sign him) Torres-Boyle-Haley
Click to expand...

That's just the type of player Gaborik is though. He's played like this since his first year here. Coming off a surgery that he is I more than expected him to have this type of up and down season this year too.

I think it'll be scary if him and Richards get going, offensively. If we have 2 offensively dangerous lines it's going to be tough to defend us in the playoffs. We'll make matching up, defensively, a terror for opposing teams.

As for forechecking, we don't have that type of team this year. We can't play that type of system and expect to be successful. We have pure offensive talent, more so than any other year here in a while. We need to attack the net, not the boards. You attack the boards when you don't have offensive talent on the ice and you want to wear out the other team. When you do have offensive talent you want to wear out the defense a different way. You don't tell Brad Richards to dump the puck in and then fight along the boards. That's not what you're paying him to do, or Gaborik, or Kreider, or Nash. You pay pesky 3rd and 4th liners to do that. Unfortunately, Miller isn't conditioned or experienced enough yet to be that type of player, nor should he conform because our team has a need for that type of player... Pyatt is too slow to be an effective forechecker... Asham is too inconsistent with his efforts to be an effective forechecker... Boyle is a good forechecker but he needs to be on the 4th line with players who have similar traits to his. Why he is on the 3rd line with (for example) Richards and Kreider, or (even worse) Pyatt and Hagelin, is absolutely beyond me. It's bad asset management and it shows Torts is not adjusting well to the players he actually has. I'd love for our bottom 2 lines to have an effective forecheck, but its just not happening with this personnel.

As for identity, you hit the nail on the head. These guys don't fight for each other. Last year you messed with one Ranger, you messed with them all. Del Zotto got cross checked? Ok, Rupp will physically pull the dude who did it out of the refs hands and just unload haymakers to the face. Dubinsky got his nose broken? Ok next game we'll start Stu Bickel to break the other dudes nose. They fought for each other night in and night out. This year? Nope. Chris Neil will do everything short of stabbing Ryan McDonough and no one did a thing about it. Why'd we sign you Aaron Asham? Hank gets bullied in the crease all the time. Nothing's done about it. We need more glue guys, unfortunately, we a) don't have enough of them in our system or on the team and b) Torts doesn't keep them around for too long when they get here (Haley + Newbury - the only 2 guys willing to stick up for team mates keep being sent to the AHL). Additionally, this team camaraderie would have been expedited if Tortorella knew how to keep lines consistent and develop a team feel. He can't even do that properly. He changes lines every 2 periods, he kills players' confidence, and he forces players to play out of their skill set.

There are guys that aren't contributing, that is 100% true, but our coach is assisting and enabling that big time.
 
haohmaru said:
And rightfully so, IMHO. They are terrible, no, TERRIBLE, defensively.
Click to expand...

I might be missing something (and I don't have the luxury of watching JM and CK in practice) but I haven't really seen any real breakdowns in Kreider's defensive zone play since his return from CT. I thought, to be honest, that he looked really solid against the Flyers and didn't see the same timid play that characterized his game earlier in the year.

Again, I'm sure there is a reason why Torts doesn't trust him out there but I thought that he was bringing more positive than negatives to the club when he was logging ice time.
 
blalinjen said:
I might be missing something (and I don't have the luxury of watching JM and CK in practice) but I haven't really seen any real breakdowns in Kreider's defensive zone play since his return from CT. I thought, to be honest, that he looked really solid against the Flyers and didn't see the same timid play that characterized his game earlier in the year.
Click to expand...
Kreider was clearing the crease better than our D men
 
Clowe, Richards, Gaborik............... the underachieving line that NEEDS to produce moving forward
 
Let's get this thread fired back up!

Nash-Steps-Cally
Zucc-Beaver-Gabs
Hags-Boyle-Clowe (IDK if Hags or Clowe can play RW, I know that they're both LW's)
Miller/Fast/Kreider/Asham/whoever else we have

We still need a 3C. Other than that, it looks pretty good.
 
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