Proposal: Lindholm to Canucks for Hunter Brustewicz +

[McJedi]

Yes that just wouldn't move the needle for me personally. We have 2 better PP QBs coming in Poirier and Morin. He also isn't better at that aspect than either of Weegar or Andersson who are signed long term even at the AHL level.

Understood. Thanks for going thru your logic... Sound analysis. Not often you get that here.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I like Brusz. I live in the Okanagan and he stood out at the Young Stars. But the Flames already have Etienne Morin and Jeremie Poirier as smaller puck moving guys. This trade doesn’t really do much for me. The flames need C prospects like Cal Richie.

 

[oceanchild]

Seriously. If Kuzmenko was such a hot commodity, why aren't the Canucks, a contending team, keeping him. He's a cap dump. The Canucks have to add if he's included in a deal.

Because it’s almost
Impossible to find players that can score like him and they are hoping that given time it works out. You don’t just give up on guys that can score the first time they have a tough streak.

 

[oceanchild]

I don't think a 1st, Bruz, and Kuzmenko is a high price. Kuzmenko has almost no value, and the Canucks would be lucky to trade him for nothing. Wingers don't tend to hold a lot of value, especially middle 6 ones with negative defensive impact and 5+ million price tag w/ term attached. Maybe if he picks it up and starts earning the coaches trust while producing more 5v5 he could hold positive value. In fact, these past 3 games he's actually looked way better despite not scoring so maybe that happens. But for now, he's a guy you throw in to make the numbers work. Not a pure cap "dump" persay, but a reclamation project that no contender would value. I still think he's a 60 pt guy but he ain't right now.

For Lindholm, his defensive contributions and bad linemates are something every GM knows about and factors in. Consider this:

Horvat's most common linemate last year was JT Miller. Lindholm's is Mangiapane.

Horvat played on the 10th best powerplay and had 18 PPP at the time of the trade, Lindholm is playing on the 30th ranked PP and has 5 PPP. Not a knock against Horvat, he's an elite bumper player, but you could imagine Lindholm having 4-5 more points if he was on a better unit.

Lindholm finished 2nd in Selke voting in 2022, and 10th in 2023. Horvat's best finish was 22nd in 2023.

This team needs to take a big swing on someone to be pushed over the top and I think he's a great "buy-low" candidate. He's the right age for this core, and I like taking a risk on locking him into an extension that could provide a ton of positive value if he could get close to where he was before. Maybe I'm delusional.

I have read a few rumours where he has value from Buffalo and Phoenix. I think he would at the very least get a second.

 

[patriotfan]

Canucks have to add. Lots of teams can beat this.

That said I'm all in for Lindholm.

i think this is a very good deal, i guess you havn't heard much about hunter BRUSTEWICZ this kid is awesome i c him all the time here in K town, well was very suprised he didn't get selected to the U S jr team but he is a beast and calgary would be getting a future stud on defence so there ya have my take....

 

[Johnsie19]

Huh? Demko was never untradable. Miller didn't struggle last season, he had 30 goals and was a PPG player. I think you're dreaming when you say people thought they were untradable. Comparing Miller and Demko to a guy who was shooting more than double the percentage elite shooters shoot when he had a good year is silly. Mangiapane shot a sky high percentage one year, what happened the next couple of seasons? It's the same thing with Kuzmenko, except Mangiapane can still play on a shutdown line.

I get that you maybe don't remember or didn't see these particular player proposals but they sure happened. Miller was coming off of a 99 point season, the Canucks were out of the playoff race by Christmas and there was a thought amongst fans to blow it up. Well Miller had zero value to people such as yourself. He was a one season wonder and too old and on and on. And Demko had a terrible start and then got injured so of course that means he is an awful goalie with the same kind of logic you used.

We all understand Kuzmenko shot at an unsustainable rate. But it's also pretty clear he has a lot of talent and can be a 1st line player. Youre arguing he is essentially worthless. Which is not the case. I mean even look at Lindholm he's on pace for 52 points. His goals have plummeted the last two seasons. Is he worthless also?

 

[Johnsie19]

This offer is actually quite close to the Horvat trade

Brustewicz >> Raty
Kuzmenko >>> Beauvaullier
Canucks 2024 1st round pick << Islanders 2023 1st round Pick

Lindholm-Horvat comparison

Exactly my point. I agree with your value assessments too. In the end I'd say this package is a little more valuable than what Horvat returned and Horvat was way more productive last season than Lindholm is this season and is 2 yrs younger.

 

[Double Dion]

I get that you maybe don't remember or didn't see these particular player proposals but they sure happened. Miller was coming off of a 99 point season, the Canucks were out of the playoff race by Christmas and there was a thought amongst fans to blow it up. Well Miller had zero value to people such as yourself. He was a one season wonder and too old and on and on. And Demko had a terrible start and then got injured so of course that means he is an awful goalie with the same kind of logic you used.

We all understand Kuzmenko shot at an unsustainable rate. But it's also pretty clear he has a lot of talent and can be a 1st line player. Youre arguing he is essentially worthless. Which is not the case. I mean even look at Lindholm he's on pace for 52 points. His goals have plummeted the last two seasons. Is he worthless also?

No, stating Kuzmenko won't shoot close to 30% again is not the same thing at JT Miller scoring 17 less points than he did the season before. Demko was playing in front of a putrid blueline and was hurt. This isn't remotely close to the same thing. I'm saying Kuzmenko is a 20-25 goal scorer who doesn't bring anything else positive to the table. This is an accurate statement.

Comparing Lindholm who is the best PKer in the league, a faceoff beast and a shutdown C to Kuzmenko is like comparing Mike Ribeiro to EP. It's just silly. If you can't understand that I don't know if you understand the sport.

 

[Johnsie19]

No, stating Kuzmenko won't shoot close to 30% again is not the same thing at JT Miller scoring 17 less points than he did the season before. Demko was playing in front of a putrid blueline and was hurt. This isn't remotely close to the same thing. I'm saying Kuzmenko is a 20-25 goal scorer who doesn't bring anything else positive to the table. This is an accurate statement.

Comparing Lindholm who is the best PKer in the league, a faceoff beast and a shutdown C to Kuzmenko is like comparing Mike Ribeiro to EP. It's just silly. If you can't understand that I don't know if you understand the sport.

Again it's easy to say now that they're better that there was never any doubt. I was literally having the debates on this message board. Most people suggested Miller was a negative asset. Hell Pettersson had a huge slump in his contract yr and signed a bridge partly because of it. He looked awful during that stretch. Kuzmenko could score 30 goals next yr.

Anyway 25 goals is still like a 90th percentile of goal scorers. Very much a top 6 fwd. My OP was in response to someone calling Kuzmenko a polished turd. Somehow you jumped into the thread but we are saying a similar thing.

The underlying metrics aren't there to suggest Lindholm is not good defensively. I'm not a total stats guy but when it's across multiple data sets it's usually pretty accurate.

 

[lionsDen]

Why are Canucks fans driving so hard to the hoop with Lindholm? They already have Pettersson and Miller.

Lindholm is pretty effective on the wing as well

 

[Tempo]

No reason for the Nucks to tie up long term salary on a new addition.

 

[PettersonHughes]

I don't think a 1st, Bruz, and Kuzmenko is a high price. Kuzmenko has almost no value, and the Canucks would be lucky to trade him for nothing. Wingers don't tend to hold a lot of value, especially middle 6 ones with negative defensive impact and 5+ million price tag w/ term attached. Maybe if he picks it up and starts earning the coaches trust while producing more 5v5 he could hold positive value. In fact, these past 3 games he's actually looked way better despite not scoring so maybe that happens. But for now, he's a guy you throw in to make the numbers work. Not a pure cap "dump" persay, but a reclamation project that no contender would value. I still think he's a 60 pt guy but he ain't right now.

For Lindholm, his defensive contributions and bad linemates are something every GM knows about and factors in. Consider this:

Horvat's most common linemate last year was JT Miller. Lindholm's is Mangiapane.

Horvat played on the 10th best powerplay and had 18 PPP at the time of the trade, Lindholm is playing on the 30th ranked PP and has 5 PPP. Not a knock against Horvat, he's an elite bumper player, but you could imagine Lindholm having 4-5 more points if he was on a better unit.

Lindholm finished 2nd in Selke voting in 2022, and 10th in 2023. Horvat's best finish was 22nd in 2023.

This team needs to take a big swing on someone to be pushed over the top and I think he's a great "buy-low" candidate. He's the right age for this core, and I like taking a risk on locking him into an extension that could provide a ton of positive value if he could get close to where he was before. Maybe I'm delusional.

You raise some good points. We may have to agree to disagree but I think the sticking point in my book is including Hunter in the trade. Sure we also have Willander (and I agree that locking Lindholm up to term would go a long way) but the perceived upside and ability to meet an area of need in RHD isn't something I'd personally like to ship out just yet, when ELCs are pretty much gold in the modern NHL trade market (look what a blue-chipper like Gauthier got in his trade).

(Not a jab at your argument or you but) I think with your awareness of Hunter's value and potential, that's precisely why your 1st argument paragraph only mentioned Kuzmenko's shortcomings and not the value of the other two assets being shipped out (1st/ Hunter). After all there is always risk trading away a blue-chipper only to have them take off and meet their potential during their rookie contract, and I'd hate to see him do that on the Flames (or become the next Andersson who we gifted them indirectly).

 

[lawrence]

Why are Canucks fans driving so hard to the hoop with Lindholm? They already have Pettersson and Miller.

not a fan of trading for a rental let alone we have to include Kuzmenko who is locked up for another year, and one of our better prospects.

that being said, Tocchet might be taking a chapter out of the Oilers play book with having our version of the Mcdavid Drasitl line which is just stacking one line and letting them run the score board up.

with that in play, if we add another scoring centreman we can make another scoring line with LIndholm being the anchor. But again I'm not a fan of this not because I don't like Lindholm, not a fan of moving a 1st round pick for a rental.

 

[Ledge And Dairy]

Very fair point on Behrens.

But if you want Ritchie, the new offer looks like this.

Ritchie + RyJo + 2026 2nd for Lindholm.

Ritchie is at 1.42 PPG in the OHL this season. +14 on a so-so team with most of his production coming 5 vs 5. Cal Ritchie is a great prospect for the Avs. He's got the look of a big 2C at the NHL level.

If Behrens would sign with Calgary, my offer stands. But your query is a very good one. He's a Junior at DU and an American so he may not want to be in Canada. But that may be his best path to playing quickly in the NHL and he probably is interested in being paid to play NHL hockey so... probably can't be too choosy.

Ritchie is still just a prospect. It will cost the 2nd to dump RyJo so you are suggesting Ritchie for Lindholm is a fair 1 for 1. Yeah no

 

[McJedi]

Ritchie is still just a prospect. It will cost the 2nd to dump RyJo so you are suggesting Ritchie for Lindholm is a fair 1 for 1. Yeah no

Ryjo has more goals than Lindholm this year. 11 to 8. he makes $4mm.

he’s too slow for the Avs style but he may fit better on a dump n chase cycle team.

ritchie is a higher end prospect. He’s gone from .69 ppg as a 16 year old to 1.0 ppg as a 17 year old to 1.42 ppg as an 18 year old in the OHL. He’s a big 2C. You’d be very lucky to get someone of this caliber for a rental.

most offers will be a base of a late first + lower end prospect.

 

[HighLifeMan]

Ryjo has more goals than Lindholm this year. 11 to 8. he makes $4mm.

Let's not play that game.. Blake Coleman has more goals than Connor McDavid, too.

We all know the massive differences between Lindholm and Johansen.

 

[McJedi]

Let's not play that game.. Blake Coleman has more goals than Connor McDavid, too.

We all know the massive differences between Lindholm and Johansen.

I didn't compare them in the sense I think value is equal. I'm pointing out the there are worthless players in the NHL. Like Vlasic or Jack Campbell. And there are guys like RyJo that aren't in the same discussion of negative value contracts. HF has trouble with this distinction. Everyone requires several 1st round picks to dump if he's not a good contract around these parts. It's absurd.

RyJo has 11 goals this season, 3 more than Lindholm. Here is RyJo's player card from last nights win vs Vegas. +0.74 defensively (nice game score). He's an NHL player and still makes impacts on the games. He is a bad style fit on the Avs. He can still score goals around the net with his size, reach and good hands.

HockeyStatCards.com

 

[RickyLafleur]

I think the fact the Canucks can offer a combo hybrid of a rebuild and retool package makes this a strong package.

It seems that Calgary is not interested in blowing it up. Getting someone like Kuzmenko surely helps that thinking. How many teams can offer a 27 yr old 39 goal scorer?

Add that in with a 1st rnd pick and one of our top prospects in Brustewicz and this is an offer that the Flames would at least entertain.

Calling Kuzmenko a 39-goal scorer is disingenuous when he only did it once and he's on pace for less than 20 this year.

 

[Double Dion]

Calling Kuzmenko a 39-goal scorer is disingenuous when he only did it once and he's on pace for less than 20 this year.

It's beyond that. If he understands the sport he understands that a 29% shooting percentage will never repeat itself. It would be like me calling Mangiapane a 35 goal scorer because he shot 19% one year. Kuzmenko is a good bet to get 20-25 goals moving forward I think, but he'll be a liability in every other area of the game. Tocchet understands this. It's why he's their 12th or 13th forward.

 

[Hockey Know it all]

I really like Brustewicz. I like the 1st round pick too. I'm not at all interested in Kuzmenko. If you're dumping a bad contract on us I'd like compensation for that. I'd also like another piece for Lindholm. Something like this:

2024 1st round pick
Brustewicz
2025 2nd round pick

I don't think Brustewicz will ever score at a high level, but he could be a 3C for a long time. He has a motor on him and is a good skater. He shoots in like Tanev though, he'll never score in the NHL.

Not hating but you might want any to check what position Brustewicz plays. He isn’t a forward.

 

[Double Dion]

Not hating but you might want any to check what position Brustewicz plays. He isn’t a forward.

Typing error using my phone. It's why I compared his shot to Tanev's, I think he'll be a 3D kind of like Tanev. I don't think the offense will really translate at the NHL level.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Calling Kuzmenko a 39-goal scorer is disingenuous when he only did it once and he's on pace for less than 20 this year.

Im fine with that as long as we also say and value that Lindholm is also on pace for under 20 goals this year.

Not sure why so many people are fixated on Kuzy for this particular trade offer.

He is merely there to off-set Lindholms contract. The main offer is Bruz and 1st.

IMO Kuzy is an additinal asset that CGY can use and or flip(, theres already reports that many teams are interested on him) but if CGY would prefer to not take him with Bruz and 1st then thats totally fine too. Maybe they value the cap space more? but it seems silly they would reject taking on Kuzmenko who is signed for 1 more year. It would be an easy 3rd round or better flip for them if they wanted. Not to mention, if Kuzmenko is a fit for their system then he can be a 30-30 guy for them and help them with the retool.

 

[Double Dion]

Im fine with that as long as we also say and value that Lindholm is also on pace for under 20 goals this year.

Not sure why so many people are fixated on Kuzy for this particular trade offer.

He is merely there to off-set Lindholms contract. The main offer is Bruz and 1st.

IMO Kuzy is an additinal asset that CGY can use and or flip(, theres already reports that many teams are interested on him) but if CGY would prefer to not take him with Bruz and 1st then thats totally fine too. Maybe they value the cap space more? but it seems silly they would reject taking on Kuzmenko who is signed for 1 more year. It would be an easy 3rd round or better flip for them if they wanted.

Lindholm is shooting 7%, Kuzmenko is shooting more than double that. It's not the same thing at all. Kuzmenko literally shot quadruple the percentage Lindholm is last season.

If you can flip him for a 3rd, do that and send us a 2nd. Personally I think if you could have flipped him they already would have. It's pretty clear Tocchet sees the same thing the rest of us do.

 

[Mattilaus]

Honest question, why is kuzmenko in every trade proposal? He's a 40 goal scorer so van should want to keep him but he has also been scratched multiple times this season so maybe he sucks.

What's his deal and why do nucks fans see him as someone worth a lot in trade value but also expendable enough to include in every proposal?

Getting Halak, Ryder, and a 2nd vibes

 

[UrbanImpact]

Typing error using my phone. It's why I compared his shot to Tanev's, I think he'll be a 3D kind of like Tanev. I don't think the offense will really translate at the NHL level.

Bruz is not in the NHL imo if his offence doesnt translate. He would jusy be a dime a donze AHL-NHL fringe guy. His 2way game has improved and he is being used in all situations in Kitchener but his Offensive skiills and instincts is his bread and butter.

I would actually compare his game to someone like Rasmus Andersson