Have to wonder how much the Canes wanted to commit to Lindholm (2 years to UFA) and Hanifin (4 years to UFA) long-term. Maybe in this transition-while-competing year they were happy to upgrade the D and bottom-6 and reward good results rather than spending $$ now and hoping the good results follow. I’m not too worried about Dougie’s 3 years. That is a ton of time to settle in. Worst case he is an elite enough player to bring back a haul even with 1 year left.
Confirmed with Link: Lindholm + Hanifin to CAL for Hamilton, Fox and Ferland
- Thread starter ob001
- Start date
Have to wonder how much the Canes wanted to commit to Lindholm (2 years to UFA) and Hanifin (4 years to UFA) long-term. Maybe in this transition-while-competing year they were happy to upgrade the D and bottom-6 and reward good results rather than spending $$ now and hoping the good results follow. I’m not too worried about Dougie’s 3 years. That is a ton of time to settle in. Worst case he is an elite enough player to bring back a haul even with 1 year left.
the halleJOKEL
strong as brickwall
no, that was my pre-coffee way of saying hanifin is still potential, i.e. the poor man's version of peak pitkanen. poor man's version is not as good as the real thing, but being only 21 he has room to grow while peak pitkanen was already a finished product.
If the team moves out Hanifin and brings in Hamilton, is that clearly an upgrade? Most would say yes, but I think there is a significant chance it will be a wash or worse as Hanifin continues to grow.
If the team moves out Faulk and replaces him with Hamilton, is that clearly an upgrade? Given Faulks down year last season, I think most would say yes...but I would call that a wash.
If the team moves out both Hanifin and Faulk and brings in Hamilton, is that an upgrade? Not by itself. As you point out, we must wait to see what Faulk returns...my point here being that Canes fans should pump the brakes on the upgrade talk.
Anton Babchuk
Registered User
bleedgreen
Registered User
The Hanifin/Faulk second pairing was a disappointment this season. We often broke up the SlavinPesce due to it. I thought our defense was flat out too young this year and that we needed to add a vet to the top four.
Which of Hanifin or Faulk should’ve been the one to go? I think obviously as we all do that now both are likely gone and I’m pretty sure while it’s painful I think there’s a strong chance it’ll be an improvement. Hamilton with Hanifin would’ve required Hanifin to take the big step forward defensively he needs to take overall. I wasn’t convinced it was coming. I was really in the fence about Hanifin meeting his potential, not that I wanted him traded.
If you could take the cold and unemotional view of our d removing that middle pair is a key to moving forward. We needed this kind of upgrade to be a legit team doing anything in the playoffs and I believe this trade does that. Hamilton is an upgrade on Faulk, no question. If we end up with a top 4 guy on the left side then we have a very strong defensive unit that rivals just about anyone. Last year we had a great young defense on paper only. That’s what I like about the trade.
I dislike parts for sure too. I needed to say something positive about yesterday. This is it, our defense took a large and necessary step forward.
I won’t get what I want, but Dumo is a guy I’d love to have back. That pairing would probably be a little slow though.
Which of Hanifin or Faulk should’ve been the one to go? I think obviously as we all do that now both are likely gone and I’m pretty sure while it’s painful I think there’s a strong chance it’ll be an improvement. Hamilton with Hanifin would’ve required Hanifin to take the big step forward defensively he needs to take overall. I wasn’t convinced it was coming. I was really in the fence about Hanifin meeting his potential, not that I wanted him traded.
If you could take the cold and unemotional view of our d removing that middle pair is a key to moving forward. We needed this kind of upgrade to be a legit team doing anything in the playoffs and I believe this trade does that. Hamilton is an upgrade on Faulk, no question. If we end up with a top 4 guy on the left side then we have a very strong defensive unit that rivals just about anyone. Last year we had a great young defense on paper only. That’s what I like about the trade.
I dislike parts for sure too. I needed to say something positive about yesterday. This is it, our defense took a large and necessary step forward.
I won’t get what I want, but Dumo is a guy I’d love to have back. That pairing would probably be a little slow though.
- Oct 31, 2007
- 40,658
- 47,307
I dunno. I'm betting by this time next year, we'll be the clear losers in this trade.
Hamilton won't work out as well as many hope, and Ferland will simply be another 3rd liner on a team that really doesn't need more. Meanwhile, Hanifin will thrive under Gio's guidance and Lindolm will breakout with the Flames young stars.
Call it a gut feeling. Or simply pessimism born from very few things working out well for this team as of late.
Hamilton won't work out as well as many hope, and Ferland will simply be another 3rd liner on a team that really doesn't need more. Meanwhile, Hanifin will thrive under Gio's guidance and Lindolm will breakout with the Flames young stars.
Call it a gut feeling. Or simply pessimism born from very few things working out well for this team as of late.
The Faulker 27
Registered User
No reason to believe anything will work out, when so much hasn't worked out. I get that. That's tiring though, and I'm tired of being tired.
Billionaire buys the team
Signs contract keeping Canes in Raleigh for 7 years
Canes win #2 Overall in lottery and add a future superstar
Change old Coach and GM for new (but still internal) guys fit for a transition
Canes were in on Grubauer and offered a better deal but were unfortunately in the Caps division.
Move out some RFAs demanding big contracts before putting up the numbers while adding a stud top-pair, prospect, and one of the league’s top hitters
Obvious changes still to come
Things aren’t working out well?
Last edited:
This is the optimistic viewpoint. There's a reason why Hamilton was the 3rd D-man for TOI on Calgary...he's got his flaws just like Faulk.
I agree the D last season was great on paper only...so either you remain patient or you make a change...making a change is reasonable but they have more work to do to make this an actual improvement.
They still need to move Faulk and get good value for him and also bring in a solid LHD to pair with Hamilton.
All the moving pieces, I think folks should at least acknowledge that there is no upgrade yet...there is potential, but there's also potential for a step back.
There's also not enough discussion about the underlying reason for this trade which was money...this move didn't happen until they couldn't reach a deal they liked with their RFAs...unless all the press comments by GMDW were just kabuki theater and they intended to trade them all along.
- Oct 31, 2007
- 40,658
- 47,307
Counterpoint:
- Billionaire buys team, claims he'll spend whatever it takes to make team competitive, makes very frugal decisions from that point onward.
- Contracts can be broken, especially if the owner shows a lack of interest in the area. Which I suspect is the ultimate goal from Dundon. Though again, gut feeling/pessimism.
- We just traded two of our former top 5 picks because they didn't live up to expectations. Hard to get excited about any of our picks knowing that.
- I'm still of the opinion that the change in coach/GM was a poor choice, especially considering the shady way Dundon handled it.
- I don't see how losing out on a possible solution to our shit goaltending can be considered "working out well."
- Already addressed above.
DougieSmash
WE'RE IN! WE'RE IN! YES! YES! WOO!
- Jan 2, 2009
- 14,795
- 15,968
bleedgreen
Registered User
The rfa’s demanding big raises they didn’t deserve narrative has to go away. We didn’t negotiate. I read we didnt really talk to Hanifin other than an initial conversation.
You have to see that for what it is. It’s June. Teams worry about ufa before they dig into the more difficult rfa situations that take all summer, and that doesn’t even start till next week. We had already been discussing Lindholm with Calgary for at least a week or two.
We rarely get any back and forth with rfa’s discussed in the media for our team, and most teams only do it with the contentious ones that drag out. What did Slavin and Pesce’s agents initially ask for? We haven’t the foggiest but somehow we know....in June....what Lindy’s agents “unreasonable” demands are. He’s an rfa with arbitration rights (if he isn’t it makes even less sense) isn’t he? He’ll get a little more than he deserves in Calgary because they won’t want arbitration, and that’ll be the only difference than what he would’ve gotten from us. Hanifin didn’t even have arbitration did he? We owned that situation. We didn’t even talk.
All a smoke screen. They wanted big change. They chose Aho and the guy Aho plays with. The rest of the team is currency and we just spent two of our biggest chips for better or for worse- without getting a goalie or a center but we did make a big step forward in defense for me.
Waddell and TD want Francis off the books and their personal stamps on this team. They wanted change. Own it and say that’s what yesterday was about, because from here that is a very clear picture for me.
You have to see that for what it is. It’s June. Teams worry about ufa before they dig into the more difficult rfa situations that take all summer, and that doesn’t even start till next week. We had already been discussing Lindholm with Calgary for at least a week or two.
We rarely get any back and forth with rfa’s discussed in the media for our team, and most teams only do it with the contentious ones that drag out. What did Slavin and Pesce’s agents initially ask for? We haven’t the foggiest but somehow we know....in June....what Lindy’s agents “unreasonable” demands are. He’s an rfa with arbitration rights (if he isn’t it makes even less sense) isn’t he? He’ll get a little more than he deserves in Calgary because they won’t want arbitration, and that’ll be the only difference than what he would’ve gotten from us. Hanifin didn’t even have arbitration did he? We owned that situation. We didn’t even talk.
All a smoke screen. They wanted big change. They chose Aho and the guy Aho plays with. The rest of the team is currency and we just spent two of our biggest chips for better or for worse- without getting a goalie or a center but we did make a big step forward in defense for me.
Waddell and TD want Francis off the books and their personal stamps on this team. They wanted change. Own it and say that’s what yesterday was about, because from here that is a very clear picture for me.
bleedgreen
Registered User
If they didn’t want to pay Lindy, it’s because they had to choose which euro smurf they wanted and they chose the one Aho likes over the guy who brings a lot more to the team.
They want a tougher team. They weren’t coming back with Skinner, Aho, Lindy and TT on the wings. I bitched about this all season so I should be happy, but I would’ve chosen Lindy over some of the others and Skinner going just doesn’t feel 100% right yet.
They want a tougher team. They weren’t coming back with Skinner, Aho, Lindy and TT on the wings. I bitched about this all season so I should be happy, but I would’ve chosen Lindy over some of the others and Skinner going just doesn’t feel 100% right yet.
Of course at a micro level the Canes didn’t trade Lindholm and Hanifin because of one negotiation.
On a macro level, the Canes have been negotiating with these guys for at least a year. Hanifin said last year that he didn’t want to re-sign like Slavin/Pesce because he felt that he was a future #1 and wanted more $$. Judging by him being traded after DeCock said they both rejected contract offers then it would appear his stance hasn’t changed.
The Canes didn’t make the decision to trade Lindholm and Hanifin yesterday. They have been gameplanning for months and likely just didn’t want to commit big contracts to those specific guys. They have a plan and it didn’t include $5+ million each going to two guys who haven’t proven to be more than middle-of-the-road 2nd pair/middle-6 talent.
Similar change to Peters. The Canes didn’t want to commit long-term and wanted to make some changes. Calgary appears happy to commit to all of them. For sure though if Lindholm and Hanifin get big long-term deals then Calgary is banking on their future potential rather than what they did in Carolina.
Identity404
I'm not superstitious, but I am a little stitious
Curious how the contract talks with Hanifin went. The media didn't pick up on it like Lindholm. I suspect that he didn't want to sign long term. Curious what kind of contract he gets from Calgary. Wouldn't be shocked if they can't buy any UFA years... Feels like he wants to bolt for Boston at the first chance he gets.
I agree this is the crux of the trade. Calgary was willing the pay and the Canes were not.
Dundon has correctly stated that going after UFA's is a non-optimal strategy for team building.
Here the Canes had two cost-controlled RFAs and they traded them...maybe they didn't want to pay the asking price, but it's surely less expensive than trying to acquire talent on the open market.
I didn't get a bolt to Boston vibe from Hanifin. But I do think he wants to be the #1 and he was surprisingly surpassed by Slavin there.
I think he wants the minutes, responsibility, and pay of a #1. He's not ready for that yet. But does he need more of that responsibility to develop into it?
I think he wants the minutes, responsibility, and pay of a #1. He's not ready for that yet. But does he need more of that responsibility to develop into it?
Last edited:
dogbazinho
Registered User
If Hanifin and Lindholm sign reasonable deals with Calgary I suspect that whole contract negotiation narrative will fall away.
Lempo
Recovering Future Considerations Truther
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,714
- 86,665
I will switch to "our hard and unrelenting stance softened them for CGY to lock them".
- Oct 31, 2007
- 40,658
- 47,307
Isn't Hanifin 3 years away from UFA? There's no way contract negotiations went so poorly with him that we decided an extra few years wouldn't make a difference.
Buenos Necas
lets go canes
I believe it was LeBrun that said negotiations were about $1m apart. I don't buy the whole "bad meeting" thing from Friday, I think we could have gotten a deal done if that was really the difference. Most RFAs don't sign before July 1 anyway.
I wanted to keep Lindholm, but was pleasantly surprised by the return. I'd like to try Slavin-Hamilton as the top pairing, and then bring in another lefty to play with Pesce. That'd give a balance to the top 4 that we were sorely lacking last year. You would then run Slavin-Pesce as your top PK pairing and let Hamilton play to his strengths running the PP.
I wanted to keep Lindholm, but was pleasantly surprised by the return. I'd like to try Slavin-Hamilton as the top pairing, and then bring in another lefty to play with Pesce. That'd give a balance to the top 4 that we were sorely lacking last year. You would then run Slavin-Pesce as your top PK pairing and let Hamilton play to his strengths running the PP.
Lempo
Recovering Future Considerations Truther
- Feb 23, 2014
- 27,714
- 86,665
Seven accrued seasons needed, I don't think NCAA counts, so four to go.
Finlandia WOAT
No blocks, No slappers
- May 23, 2010
- 24,417
- 24,696
on Thursday, waddell went on local sports radio and said (re: lindy and hanifin), don't worry, this is just the opening salvos, they're rfas and have no leverage, no choice but to sign on our terms eventually.
at his post draft presser, he said they've been talking to calgary for weeks, but the particular pieces involved (presumptively from calgary's end) weren't in play until either thursday night or friday. gmdw said they then had to do their due diligence on one of the players and got the all clear. otoh, i don't recall him mentioning hanifin and lindy's putative intransigence.
alt take: the "hard to sign" media narrative was used to gauge league interest while maintaining the "we're not shopping them!" leverage. it worked, they got a guy who will play a role hanifin would have to progress into. as for calgary, hamilton was off limits until thursday night or friday.
i am surprised hamilton is such a polarizing player. generally, those are guys who *look* good but have poor underlying numbers. but hamilton has excellent splits.
at his post draft presser, he said they've been talking to calgary for weeks, but the particular pieces involved (presumptively from calgary's end) weren't in play until either thursday night or friday. gmdw said they then had to do their due diligence on one of the players and got the all clear. otoh, i don't recall him mentioning hanifin and lindy's putative intransigence.
alt take: the "hard to sign" media narrative was used to gauge league interest while maintaining the "we're not shopping them!" leverage. it worked, they got a guy who will play a role hanifin would have to progress into. as for calgary, hamilton was off limits until thursday night or friday.
i am surprised hamilton is such a polarizing player. generally, those are guys who *look* good but have poor underlying numbers. but hamilton has excellent splits.
Last edited:
We often compared Hanifin to Jones at the time of the trade on the trade board. It’s possible that Hanifin’s agent would do the same thing during contract negotiations. Jones signed for $5.4 mil x 6 years and that was with a $73 mil ceiling. Adjust for cap inflation and that’s a ~$5.88 mil AAV over 6 years. Carolina getting him signed for closer to Pesce money on a long-term deal was unlikely, unless the deal took straight to unrestricted free agency (4 years.)
I think we’ll see Calgary, a wealthier team, gamble on his potential and pay him upwards of $5.5 mil on a 6-7 year deal. If not, he’ll be bridged, what I thought Carolina would do, at $3 mil or so.
I think we’ll see Calgary, a wealthier team, gamble on his potential and pay him upwards of $5.5 mil on a 6-7 year deal. If not, he’ll be bridged, what I thought Carolina would do, at $3 mil or so.
Finlandia WOAT
No blocks, No slappers
- May 23, 2010
- 24,417
- 24,696
4, and generally a team can add 1-2 ufa years at below ufa price.
i don't think the idea was contract, it was getting a guy who is a great player for one who might be as good and might be even better (plus lindholm).
Ad
Latest posts
-
Rumor: Rumors & Proposals Thread | The Oilers Biggest Roster Need Is?- Latest: FunkyChicken
-
Upcoming events
-
UFC 309 - Madison Square Garden in New York City Jon Jones vs Stipe MiocicWagers: 3Staked: $2,575.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
-
-