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Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part II

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I'd expect that the vast majority of the board falls into all three of these categories:

1) We weren't a fan of the pick when it was made.
2) Lias outproduced our expectations at every level leading up to the Rangers.
3) We haven't been impressed with how he's looked in the NHL yet.

I can't help but wonder if he'd been picked in the 10-15 range (I think he averaged 13.5 when I looked at him across a dozen rankings last year) then the conversation be vastly different.

He's taking a little longer to acclimate than we'd hoped; lots of guys do. I'm sure that he's going to spend his second offseason in a row focusing on core strength and skating. I don't think he made many meaningful strides this year, but I'm still very optimistic about him coming into next training camp. If a smart kid like Lias turns the corner physically, he could very easily jump into an important role out of the gate.
 
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Edge said:
To be honest with you, I think something along those lines is a distinct possibility. And/or a move at the draft.
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I agree and i would expect to see Skjei and/or Kreider as the headliner pieces of that package.
 
Harbour Dog said:
I'd expect that the vast majority of the board falls into all three of these categories:

1) We weren't a fan of the pick when it was made.
2) Lias outproduced our expectations at every level leading up to the Rangers.
3) We haven't been impressed with how he's looked in the NHL yet.

I can't help but wonder if he'd been picked in the 10-15 range (I think he averaged 13.5 when I looked at him across a dozen rankings last year) then the conversation be vastly different.

He's taking a little longer to acclimate than we'd hoped; lots of guys do. I'm sure that he's going to spend his second offseason in a row focusing on core strength and skating. I don't think he made many meaningful strides this year, but I'm still very optimistic about him coming into next training camp. If a smart kid like Lias turns the corner physically, he could very easily jump into an important role out of the gate.
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The categories are fine but don't address the issue that his detractors have. Unlike Chytil and Howden, LA doesn't appear to have a skill set that indicates he will be more than a 3rd line grinder. That may be Howden's realistic upside also but he is a good skater with good size and is very noticeable on ice, even if he hasn't produced much and was never evaluated to not be a big scorer at the NHL level. Chytil has an impressive skill set but hasn't figured out how to use it effectively at this level, hopefully will. What does LA have? Nothing outstanding to most observers.
 
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OrlandK said:
The categories are fine but don't address the issue that his detractors have. Unlike Chytil and Howden, LA doesn't appear to have a skill set that indicates he will be more than a 3rd line grinder. That may be Howden's realistic upside also but he is a good skater with good size and is very noticeable on ice, even if he hasn't produced much and was never evaluated to not be a big scorer at the NHL level. Chytil has an impressive skill set but hasn't figured out how to use it effectively at this level, hopefully will. What does LA have? Nothing outstanding to most observers.
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That's how I feel. I remember people were annoyed and thought the Jesper Fast comparison was lazy. And yet, I see it. I don't mind him turning into a 3rd line center version of Fast. Would it be a bit disappointing? Yea but I'd take it
 
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OrlandK said:
The categories are fine but don't address the issue that his detractors have. Unlike Chytil and Howden, LA doesn't appear to have a skill set that indicates he will be more than a 3rd line grinder. That may be Howden's realistic upside also but he is a good skater with good size and is very noticeable on ice, even if he hasn't produced much and was never evaluated to not be a big scorer at the NHL level. Chytil has an impressive skill set but hasn't figured out how to use it effectively at this level, hopefully will. What does LA have? Nothing outstanding to most observers.
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An elite 3rd line or solid 2nd line 2-way centre is what I hope to get from Lias, so I'm not really sure what more we'd be seeing from him now anyway.

His skillset has never been touted as being flashy, and yet he has produced in line with the top tier of his age group at every level. I think it's fair to give him time to adjust to and to learn how his game is going to fit into this league. And he will.

Being a "3rd line grinder" is definitely in the realm of possibility though, and always was. But I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that he outscores his contemporaries in that role once he finds his footing.
 
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I see no comparison between Andersson and Fast whatsoever. I’ve seen more offensive skill in Lias in the short I’ve watched him than Fast has ever exhibited. Andersson has a much better shot, sees the ice better offensively and is a much more skilled passer. OTOH, Andersson is nowhere near the defensive player that Fast is. It was a lazy comparison then and remains.

Why does every player characterization have to be made in black and white terms?
 
jas said:
I see no comparison between Andersson and Fast whatsoever. I’ve seen more offensive skill in Lias in the short I’ve watched him than Fast has ever exhibited. Andersson has a much better shot, sees the ice better offensively and is a much more skilled passer. OTOH, Andersson is nowhere near the defensive player that Fast is. It was a lazy comparison then and remains.

Why does every player characterization have to be made in black and white terms?
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I think their skating style & defensive IQ are similar. Both play in front of the net. I'd say Fast has a decent shot himself. Andersson probably does have a better feel in the offensive zone but Fast had his moments when playing Kreider & Zibby last year.

I didn't say they're the same player but to me, they play similarly with Andersson being a bit better in the offensive zone & Fast being a bit better in the D zone. Not sure what the problem is
 
lilphildub said:
I think their skating style & defensive IQ are similar. Both play in front of the net. I'd say Fast has a decent shot himself. Andersson probably does have a better feel in the offensive zone but Fast had his moments when playing Kreider & Zibby last year.

I didn't say they're the same player but to me, they play similarly with Andersson being a bit better in the offensive zone & Fast being a bit better in the D zone. Not sure what the problem is
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I don’t see anything similar about them.
 
Harbour Dog said:
An elite 3rd line or solid 2nd line 2-way centre is what I hope to get from Lias, so I'm not really sure what more we'd be seeing from him now anyway.

His skillset has never been touted as being flashy, and yet he has produced in line with the top tier of his age group at every level. I think it's fair to give him time to adjust to and to learn how his game is going to fit into this league. And he will.

Being a "3rd line grinder" is definitely in the realm of possibility though, and always was. But I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that he outscores his contemporaries in that role once he finds his footing.
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Most 3rd line grinders were big scorers at lower levels; even some goons. It funny to hear some of those guys come on Spittin' Chicklets and comment how they scored 30 goals a year coming up. But it became obvious when they get to the NHL level, because of the increased speed and skill, that the only way they could stick to to play the physical game. Somewhat similarly LA has produced at lower levels but doesn't project to do so at the NHL level. Doesn't have the skating ability, explosiveness or shot to do so. So his supporters try to hang onto "hockey sense". Hope they are right but I don't see it at all.
 
jas said:
I don’t see anything similar about them.
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I see similarity between Fast and Lias, and think it's an interesting comparison. They both play extremely hard and play an unsually physical but clean game for their size. And they both try to get to the net when the opportunity presents, more so Lias when playing center. And they both get the most out of their somewhat pedestrian skill set. And they're both Swedes!
 
OrlandK said:
The categories are fine but don't address the issue that his detractors have. Unlike Chytil and Howden, LA doesn't appear to have a skill set that indicates he will be more than a 3rd line grinder. That may be Howden's realistic upside also but he is a good skater with good size and is very noticeable on ice, even if he hasn't produced much and was never evaluated to not be a big scorer at the NHL level. Chytil has an impressive skill set but hasn't figured out how to use it effectively at this level, hopefully will. What does LA have? Nothing outstanding to most observers.
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When has Howden showed anything outside of the first 10ish games of the seasons?
 
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Lias could learn Fast's hustle. Not saying he doesn't but he doesn't have that voraciousness
 
Rangers743 said:
When has Howden showed anything outside of the first 10ish games of the seasons?
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Not much. I think you missed the point. Howden hasn't produced but based on his skating and 200' game it seems like he can improve with time. Lias doesn't even have that going for him. Of course he will improve as he adjusts to the league but I just don't see his skillset resulting in more than a 3rd line grinder.
 
OrlandK said:
Most 3rd line grinders were big scorers at lower levels; even some goons. It funny to hear some of those guys come on Spittin' Chicklets and comment how they scored 30 goals a year coming up. But it became obvious when they get to the NHL level, because of the increased speed and skill, that the only way they could stick to to play the physical game. Somewhat similarly LA has produced at lower levels but doesn't project to do so at the NHL level. Doesn't have the skating ability, explosiveness or shot to do so. So his supporters try to hang onto "hockey sense". Hope they are right but I don't see it at all.
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See: Patrick Stefan
 
OrlandK said:
Not much. I think you missed the point. Howden hasn't produced but based on his skating and 200' game it seems like he can improve with time. Lias doesn't even have that going for him. Of course he will improve as he adjusts to the league but I just don't see his skillset resulting in more than a 3rd line grinder.
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Five points in 30 games. Five.

For comparison: MacIlrath had four points in his first 37 games; Burmistrov had 20 in 74; Kadri had 12 in 30; Filatov had 15 in 44; Colton Gillies had seven in 45; Rostislav Olesz had 21 in 59.

Andersson’s stats are awful.
 
CasusBelli said:
Five points in 30 games. Five.

For comparison: MacIlrath had four points in his first 37 games; Burmistrov had 20 in 74; Kadri had 12 in 30; Filatov had 15 in 44; Colton Gillies had seven in 45; Rostislav Olesz had 21 in 59.

Andersson’s stats are awful.
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6-10 minutes a night and I’m wondering what you think his stats should be? Context.
 
Yes his draft position has a lot to do with people being critical. If he was taken at like 13 where he was projected to go, people would probably be less critical

It is what it is though. He's has about as bland a year as a prospect can have. He's not going to be a core piece for this team going forward, but I hope he has a good summer and comes strong in the fall
 
haohmaru said:
6-10 minutes a night and I’m wondering what you think his stats should be? Context.
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If he’s a good player on an average / below average team, he should be getting well over 6-10 minutes in the first place.
 
Ori said:
Yes @Edge in my view he totally miss with his evaluation about Lias in that interview - maybe how he decided to use the words in that particular interview. We don`t know about Kratsov or the 2018 draft yet so I won`t comment on that.
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That's funny since judement regarding this 2017 first rounder was passed just weeks after the draft
 
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