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Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part II

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OrlandK said:
That's fine but there is a downside to trying Lias there. He will likely fail. He doesn't have the speed to skate with Kreider and Kakko nor has he shown any other particular talent to likely succeed as a 2C. After such a tough start to his career he seems to have shown enough to warrant playing in the bottom 6 and succeed. He had a good camp and should settle into a role he is suited for, and can have success in.

The reality is the Rangers have no one who has the talent to be a 2C other than Chytil, if he can get it together at Hartford. Trying different guys there seems logical but they will almost all fail. The question then is what did that experiment result in. In Strome's case little is lost - he is the best alternative and the line will be disadvantaged until a true 2c emerges; in the meantime he may be in the 40 point-ish range, and the ability to set up his wingers (some). In Howden's case he has the speed to play with them but doesn't seem to have the other skills needed; unclear what he really is and where he can establish himself for his career going forward. In the case of Lias he will likely experience failure again, which will be another set back. His most likely success is as a 3rd line 2 way grinder; if he's more than that it will become apparent over time, not by force feeding him a role he will likely fail in.
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well said.

the argument for chad is more "the next man up" thing rather than hes earning something.

hes shown little other than what hes always shown- a strong motor and a grinding style of play. his hands and feet dont scream 2C to me at all. certainly not today. "trying" him at the 2C is merely a default decision rather than something that actually looks like it might work.

howden is pretty much the same. hes bigger and faster than lias but the offensive upside seems lacking. i dont see the creativity or vision or overall offensive talent there.

the likely outcome of this folly is likely more strome and then waiting until filip shows he can play the 2way game that is required of the 2C. his play away from the puck (right now) may be the weakest of this "big 3" but his size, wheels and overall skill level is much higher than chad and brett.

it seems to me its strome until fil takes that spot then its sink or swim until a package can be assembled to acquire someone elses prospect or young player ready to assume that role.
 
OrlandK said:
Not only has Lias not done anything to earn the 2C but he doesn't appear to have the skill set - skating or the hands - to succeed there. Many complain that he is held to an unreasonable standard as a #7 pick. But is there any reason that so many buy into the Lias hype other than the fact that he was a number 7 pick and the expectations that went with it? Imagine if he was a late first round pick at best, as he likely would be if there was a redo, would anyone lobby for the 2c for him based on his performance to date?
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I completely agree! So far he's been giving phenomenal opportunities, this is a guy getting 4 shifts a period with NHL forwards like Smith and McKegg and still can't be a productive player! He couldn't facilitate any offense with high talent guys like Pettersson for example! Honestly I think being a late first is generous, undrafted is probably more likely for this low talent 21 year old
 
DanielBrassard said:
To me Lias has been one of the more effective players on the team along the walls and winning puck battles, not that that's a huge accomplishment so far considering the team's play so far, but I think he'd be a better fit with two more skilled players to at least keep plays alive and creating ozone time
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You may be observing thru rose colored glasses because you are a Lias fan. His advanced statistics (obviously a small sample size for this season) indicate he has played fairly poorly as they similarly indicated last season. The idea that he should play with two talented wingers is understandable from the standpoint of enhancing his points and stats, as he obviously would be seem to be more productive. However it is equally clear that he would be a drag on talented wingers since his skating and puck skills are pretty pedestrian. A review of his entire career, including his time in Sweden, makes it apparent that he is unlikely to ever be a big point producer. It's time to stop dreaming that he will be and accept him for what he is.
 
OrlandK said:
You may be observing thru rose colored glasses because you are a Lias fan. His advanced statistics (obviously a small sample size for this season) indicate he has played fairly poorly as they similarly indicated last season. The idea that he should play with two talented wingers is understandable from the standpoint of enhancing his points and stats, as he obviously would be seem to be more productive. However it is equally clear that he would be a drag on talented wingers since his skating and puck skills are pretty pedestrian. A review of his entire career, including his time in Sweden, makes it apparent that he is unlikely to ever be a big point producer. It's time to stop dreaming that he will be and accept him for what he is.
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Ignoring the fact that his "advanced statistics" are not at all meaningful given he's played all of 19:40 he leads the team in all of CF%, SF%, xGF% per NST so I'm not sure where you got that they are poor from.
 
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OrlandK said:
That's fine but there is a downside to trying Lias there. He will likely fail. He doesn't have the speed to skate with Kreider and Kakko nor has he shown any other particular talent to likely succeed as a 2C. After such a tough start to his career he seems to have shown enough to warrant playing in the bottom 6 and succeed. He had a good camp and should settle into a role he is suited for, and can have success in.

The reality is the Rangers have no one who has the talent to be a 2C other than Chytil, if he can get it together at Hartford. Trying different guys there seems logical but they will almost all fail. The question then is what did that experiment result in. In Strome's case little is lost - he is the best alternative and the line will be disadvantaged until a true 2c emerges; in the meantime he may be in the 40 point-ish range, and the ability to set up his wingers (some). In Howden's case he has the speed to play with them but doesn't seem to have the other skills needed; unclear what he really is and where he can establish himself for his career going forward. In the case of Lias he will likely experience failure again, which will be another set back. His most likely success is as a 3rd line 2 way grinder; if he's more than that it will become apparent over time, not by force feeding him a role he will likely fail in.
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The downside is a 21 year old player with less than a season of NHL time gets an idea of what he needs to improve to get to the next level, which has been a realistic ceiling for him since his draft year. The upside is a very young player works well with two players we need someone to play with. It wouldn't be the first, second or thousandth time a guy who seems on paper like he's not skilled enough for a particular role ends up gelling and working in it due to his skillset complimenting his linemates. Lias is good on the puck, hard on the boards. Kakko needs to be in the o-zone to do his work and is also strong on the boards. Kreider has great speed and strength. Maybe the three of them work. The idea that if they don't work it's some big setback is overblown imo. If it doesn't work, the lines will shuffle like they're bound to dozens of times in any season, and Lias can go back to the minimal minutes he's getting now, which are frankly not helpful developmentally either.

Also, imo he didn't have "such a tough start" in the league. He had the start that someone of his age will likely have if they're not a first or second overall pick. He played in the AHL and did well and then got light minutes in the NHL and flew under the radar. This is how non-elite players develop. It's not tough or unusual at all imo. People having these odd expectations of him is part of why he's regarded in such a strange way imo.
 
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offdacrossbar said:
his resume to this point would seem to confirm this more than refute it.

no skill no talent isnt really accurate. he certainly has both.

just not 2C skill nor talent perhaps better.
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He may not have the 2C talent level of a Kevin Hayes or others we've seen in a NYR sweater, but he has tangible abilities to fill that role, especially on this team.

If it's the, don't rush him into a role he cannot handle thing, I can get it to a point, but it's this roster that we're talking about. This team has 1 established center. We have 79 games to find another, if we're going to be honest with ourselves.

Also, if he's playing with Lemieux and McKegg, one could argue that's the 3rd line. Strome, Fast, and Smith don't scream 3rd line to me.

If that line does well, they'll play more.
 
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The funny thing is, to me his play style should actually compliment the high skill guys. 70 points from Bergeron is different from 70 points from Laine. I think people see guys like Kravstov, Chytil, Duclair, etc... go inside outside on defenders and go wow what skill and that's it. There's nothing wrong with that of course but there's different things that make different players effective. I like how someone phrased it and props to whoever it was I can't remember, Andersson might not drive a line but he seems to facilitate things, the things that will make him effective will not be dangling guys out of their skates but being a cerebal guy, being in the rights spots, smart passes, causing a turnover that translates into an opportunity, shit like that.

And I'm more vocal about Lias than some of our other prospects and that's not a reflection on him or any other players but really just to combat some of the garbage that seems to get tossed around
 
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OrlandK said:
That's fine but there is a downside to trying Lias there. He will likely fail. He doesn't have the speed to skate with Kreider and Kakko nor has he shown any other particular talent to likely succeed as a 2C. After such a tough start to his career he seems to have shown enough to warrant playing in the bottom 6 and succeed. He had a good camp and should settle into a role he is suited for, and can have success in.
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I think that he has suited for more than a 4th line roll. Stome is failing so far. Howden has not done much better. At least let's see what Andersson can or cannot do there.
 
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A lot of times the debate can be about making a decision, as a result of anticipation, and playing a kid over someone more experienced, even when the more experienced player hasn't necessarily played his way out of a role.

In this case, I think it's quite obvious that Strome really isn't the answer and hopefully we can see what some of our younger talent does when afforded the same opportunities.
 
SA16 said:
Ignoring the fact that his "advanced statistics" are not at all meaningful given he's played all of 19:40 he leads the team in all of CF%, SF%, xGF% per NST so I'm not sure where you got that they are poor from.
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Because he's looking thru his own version of brown colored glasses.
 
OrlandK said:
You may be observing thru rose colored glasses because you are a Lias fan. His advanced statistics (obviously a small sample size for this season) indicate he has played fairly poorly as they similarly indicated last season. The idea that he should play with two talented wingers is understandable from the standpoint of enhancing his points and stats, as he obviously would be seem to be more productive. However it is equally clear that he would be a drag on talented wingers since his skating and puck skills are pretty pedestrian. A review of his entire career, including his time in Sweden, makes it apparent that he is unlikely to ever be a big point producer. It's time to stop dreaming that he will be and accept him for what he is.
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I wish this narrative would just die. Some people are fans of individuals, but still able to objectively judge that player.
 
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People are talking about his skill limit like he's not a 21 year old with a solid pre-draft pedigree and good AHL production for his age.
 
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