Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part II

[Edge]

Yeah but when chytil played down on the 4th line, it sure looked like he was generating stuff but his linematrs couldn't keep up....it doesn't look that way for lias'.

Does anyone actually have their 4th line stats to compare?

You know it's funny, at the time, everyone was complaining about his production, or lack-thereof. I do remember a lot of complaints about him being stuck with boulders on his flanks, so there is that.

But let's even go with the belief he was generating stuff and his linemates couldn't keep up. At the very least, that does indeed make a lot of sense when looking at who we had the poor kid playing with. At this point, it's been how months since he was promoted to a larger role? And over the past several months, we certainly can't point to him leading the charge with little or no support. Ditto for Howden who just scored for the first time since Thanksgiving.

But even if Andersson is showing signs of life on the third line, why be so quick to put him back in a position where he wasn't?

See, that's the challenge I have. I can come at it from a multitude of angles, and it still doesn't balance out. I mean I can get creative and stuff, but it would feel like I am trying to ignore the logical.

 

[lilphildub]

But here's the thing, those same complaints were evident when he was setting SHL records. People were literally making the same exact complaints when he was breaking a record.

They were complaining when he was scoring in the AHL as a teenager.

So these complaints, are not just because he hasn't produced in the NHL ---- as a 20 year old. I think that makes for a plausible cover, but the history of the conversations about Andersson, literally from day one, tell a very different story.

And even if I go along and say, sure, people are disappointed he isn't producing at the NHL. I feel like there's this whole other level of context that is completely left out. The ice time, playing on the fourth line, him not getting a longer run with linemates he obviously had chemistry with, the production at levels leading up to here, etc. How about the fact that Chytil had the exact same problem when in the role that Andersson is in now? His production only came AFTER he was put in a different role. How about the fact that Howden has struggled when bumped down a line and just scored his first goal since November, when not in the role Andersson is in now. Quite frankly, almost every rookie on the roster has struggled in the Andersson slot on the fourth line. The difference is that they are moved out of that slot on a regular basis.

If we're going to point to things with Andersson, that's fine. But it becomes obvious that objectivity isn't the goal when we are avoiding the elephants in the room with other players, or ignoring other aspects.

I can't speak for others & who has been complaining since the beginning. I'm not here enough to keep track. I think the quotes of Lias being "NHL ready" "ready to step in right away" may have skewed some perceptions since the beginning. Also the numbers & production have never been a problem with me.

My issue has more to do with, what skill set does he truly have rather than "why isn't he ready for the NHL yet". Chytil's skating & hands stand out. Howden's passing & IQ stand out. Where does Andersson excel? What has Lias done to deserve to be moved up from the 4th line? When he has been moved up, has he proven he belongs there? I haven't seen much that says he should move up in the lineup.

Also no one is ignoring Chytil or Howden's weaknesses. Both are rookies & have their own negative posters. People aren't only picking on Andersson on this forum. He has higher expectations since he was picked at 7 which is fair. At least Chytil & Howden have also given us things to truly be excited about. Still waiting on Andersson for that

 

[Inferno]

I said positive shot metrics because i didn’t watch the game. It was dumb as **** to not give him more TOI last night

If you watched the game I'm not sure you'd agree

 

[Inferno]

You know it's funny, at the time, everyone was complaining about his production, or lack-thereof. I do remember a lot of complaints about him being stuck with boulders on his flanks, so there is that.

But let's even go with the belief he was generating stuff and his linemates couldn't keep up. At the very least, that does indeed make a lot of sense when looking at who we had the poor kid playing with. At this point, it's been how months since he was promoted to a larger role? And over the past several months, we certainly can't point to him leading the charge with little or no support. Ditto for Howden who just scored for the first time since Thanksgiving.

But even if Andersson is showing signs of life on the third line, why be so quick to put him back in a position where he wasn't?

See, that's the challenge I have. I can come at it from a multitude of angles, and it still doesn't balance out. I mean I can get creative and stuff, but it would feel like I am trying to ignore the logical.

I've been pretty clear that I've been down on ho chytils been playing...howden as well...but the difference is I'm down on their play..not their skillset

 

[FireGerardGallant]

If you watched the game I'm not sure you'd agree

Eye-tests are flawed

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

If you watched the game I'm not sure you'd agree

Eh, whatever. You do you i guess, this thread is a disaster, i’m out.

 

[Inferno]

Eye-tests are flawed

I'd say eye tests are certainly not perfect . Id also say I feel comfortable in my own player evaluations to give my opinion and be willing to stand by it.

 

[Edge]

I've been pretty clear that I've been down on ho chytils been playing...howden as well...but the difference is I'm down on their play..not their skillset

But I'm not sure we've even really had a chance to consistently see Andersson's actual skill set in the NHL. Just like Chytil and Howden's skill sets don't stand out when they are getting 10 minutes on the fourth line.

It's not really a mystery why both of them were fairly invisible in the same slot as Andersson --- because it's not a skill showcase position.

The skills we often refer to from them were typically on display when they weren't on the fourth line.

Andersson's skill set, when he's not in his current position, was on display when he was bumped up to the third line. I liked his forecheck, I liked his ability to get to the net and get into traffic areas, I liked his ability to get to where the puck is, I liked his hockey sense and IQ. In other words, I liked the same things he displayed when he was in more prominent roles in the SHL and AHL.

And then, he was gone again.

Back down to the fourth line. The spot where none of his perceived competition has stood out either.

 

[Inferno]

But I'm not sure we've even really had a chance to consistently see Andersson's actual skill set in the NHL. Just like Chytil and Howden's skill sets don't stand out when they are getting 10 minutes on the fourth line.

It's not really a mystery why both of them were fairly invisible in the same slot as Andersson --- because it's not a skill showcase position.

The skills we often refer to from them are typically from they weren't on the fourth line.

Andersson's skill set, when he's not in his current position, was on display when he was bumped up to the third line. I liked his forecheck, I liked his ability to get to the net and get into traffic areas, I liked his ability to get to where the puck is, I liked his hockey sense and IQ. In other words, I liked the same things he displayed when he was in more prominent roles in the SHL and AHL.

And then, he was gone again.

Back down to the fourth line. The spot where none of his perceived competition has stood out either.

I'd say I sorta agree with you that he looked better with lemieux and buchnevich but I still think howden looks better with those 2


I also think that howden and chytil DID stand out when playing on the 4th line...I think that why they moved up.

 

[lilphildub]

Eye-tests are flawed

Game to game metrics are just as flawed on their own. Especially when its on a 9 minute samples

 

[Thirty One]

If Andersson is on the roster for 40 NHL games, starting the clock on UFA at his current contribution level, I am going to scream.

 

[Ori]

Yes I think it`s really difficult with the little ice time to be successful in that 4th line position and Quinn talk about his defensive tasks - so they are working on his defensive part of his game.

 

[Edge]

I'd say I sorta agree with you that he looked better with lemieux and buchnevich but I still think howden looks better with those 2


I also think that howden and chytil DID stand out when playing on the 4th line...I think that why they moved up.

It's hard to tell because we can't ever get an extended look at Andersson anywhere else other than the fourth line.

I mean hell, Chytil has since been moved to the wings since playing on the fourth line.

Ice time, position changes, etc.

It's so hard to compare these things because a lot of it is like comparing apples and oranges at times.

I'm comparing Andersson on the fourth line at 10 mins, to Chytil on the wings of the second line, to Howden at 50 percent more ice time on the third line, in a position that Andersson sure looked good playing for the limited time we actually saw him there.

The only constant I do have is that I thought all of them looking fairly invisible on the fourth line at 10 minutes, and that all have looked better elsewhere. Anything beyond that, and Andersson doesn't have the deployment to make a side-by-side comparison.

 

[romba]

If Andersson is on the roster for 40 NHL games, starting the clock on UFA at his current contribution level, I am going to scream.

Let's just sign him to a 10 year deal now to buy out his FA years, I hear it's all the rage these days

 

[haveandare]

Lias have 1 goal in 30 games - 2 in 37 if you add his games in the previous season with different NHL coaches AV & Quinn.
And this tape is all we need: Clarke should be retired before the 2019 draft. And for me Lias is not NHL ready at all so hopefully they send him back to Wolfpack to finish his season there with top 6 minutes which he need to develop properly, and less than 10 minutes game is waste of his 1st 7th overall pick talent, and we are not debating about a random 7th rnd pick here.

I can’t watch the video right now but the excerpt written above is just an absolute fact. He was 18 in a top men’s league. Given that, he was likely closer to playing in the nhl than other juniors kids. That’s not even an opinion, it’s a fact followed by a very logical inference based on that fact.

 

[Off Sides]

If Andersson is on the roster for 40 NHL games, starting the clock on UFA at his current contribution level, I am going to scream.

That has been one of my concern with both him and Chytil, and part of the reason I'm not complaining if the youngest prospects are staying in the AHL a little longer.

(Howden it did not effect his RFA years, but still)

I guess I just don't see them as on the tier of the prospects who need to get long term deals right off their entry levels, and if they don't show to be on that tier by the time their entry level ends all it does is eliminate a RFA year which could have been used for a bridge. If they do show to be on that higher tier it still eliminates what should be a cheaper RFA year built into any long term deal.

I can't quite figure out if the Rangers really thought they'd get more development by being in the NHL under Quinn or if they are trying to showcase they are rebuilding, or if they believe some sort of advantage can be had by going that route, yet in any case it sure seems like if they are going to be adding in a ton of prospects the AHL needs to become somewhere they trust as a developmental platform.

I don't have a ton of hope that guys like Fogarty, Beleskey, Lettieri Brickley/Schneider, Holland are going to be all that great as NHLers, yet I can't figure out why those guys could not have played in the NHL to start this year, stayed there until the deadline or near to it, and instead it had to be younger prospects.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Honestly, if anyone should be upset about anything, it’d be the Rangers rushing him out of Sweden.

In hindsight, he should have clearly stayed there another year or two. I’m not sure why we were in such a rush to get him over here. With Chytil it’s one thing, but Andersson had established himself as an important player for his SHL team and would have gotten plenty of ice time.

I don’t think playing him for 8 minutes with scrubs on a bad team is good for his offensive development.

 

[Inferno]

Honestly, if anyone should be upset about anything, it’d be the Rangers rushing him out of Sweden.

In hindsight, he should have clearly stayed there another year or two. I’m not sure why we were in such a rush to get him over here. With Chytil it’s one thing, but Andersson had established himself as an important player for his SHL team and would have gotten plenty of ice time.

I don’t think playing him for 8 minutes with scrubs on a bad team is good for his offensive development.

Wasn't he playing big minutes in Hartford ?


I feel like hindsight nitpicking where they played at isn't worth getting into. Just like where they were drafted or who was drafted around them

I wanna judge the player based on hisplay.

 

[Edge]

For Lias it's about transitioning what he brings to the NHL. He's already proven he can do it at every other stop, across two continents.

At the end of the day, he'll either figure out how to do it, or he won't. But the road he took to the NHL most likely won't be the problem.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

For Lias it's about transitioning what he brings to the NHL. He's already proven he can do it at every other stop, across two continents.

At the end of the day, he'll either figure out how to do it, or he won't. But the road he took to the NHL most likely won't be the problem.

I hope you’re right. I still think Lias is going to be a good player for us, just might take him longer to transition than some were hoping for.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I hope you’re right. I still think Lias is going to be a good player for us, just might take him longer to transition than some were hoping for.

I think he’ll be a good player, too. I’m just not convinced it will be with the Rangers.

 

[mrmovies779]

I think he’ll be a good player, too. I’m just not convinced it will be with the Rangers.

Hello Toronto-i hear you have some cap issues and a Nylander available...

 

[mrmovies779]

I think he’ll be a good player, too. I’m just not convinced it will be with the Rangers.

Hello Toronto-i hear you have some cap issues and a Nylander available...

 

[Ghost of jas]

Hello Toronto-i hear you have some cap issues and a Nylander available...

There you go

 

[Edge]

Hello Toronto-i hear you have some cap issues and a Nylander available...

To be honest with you, I think something along those lines is a distinct possibility. And/or a move at the draft.