Confirmed with Link: Lias Andersson asks for trade. No longer with NYR.

[Kakko Schmakko]

The more I think about it, we need to fix our drafting department, they seem to be too many times out of touch with reality. Gordie Clark went on record and told some outlandish things. I am not sure if he is doing it to hype up the prospects or fans or if they genuinely believe those things. So when you look like a complete idiot now looking back at 2015 draft where you claimed Gropp was 6th best forward you lose all credibility and you are a problem, not a solution:

2015 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

17-18? I don't think he stood out against his peers. The numbers were fine, but he was nothing special. He had already played in the NHL at that point as well. I certainly wasn't overly impressed with his game for his age and experience.

I guess if you just look at stats it may look like he played well.

He played in the NHL at the end of that season. He was with Frolunda, went to the WJC, hurt his shoulder before the last game, stayed in New York for rehab, then stayed to play with the Wolfpack when he was healthy, then got 7 games at the end of the year with Chytil who had played 2 to start the season

 

[haveandare]

I don't think Reunanen is a thing. I am certain they felt him going back was best for him or it was a mutual decision.

The others, that's the rub. It's a terrible look at developing players for a team that sent a letter out saying specifically this is what they wanted to accomplish.

Oh and I took soft Euro's out, lol people will think I was serious and I don't feel like going down that road.

Honestly Gropp not reporting isn’t that weird to me either. At some age if someone can’t hack it in the AHL well, they might just not want to do this anymore and for good reason.

 

[nyr2k2]

Honestly Gropp not reporting isn’t that weird to me either. At some age if someone can’t hack it in the AHL well, they might just not want to do this anymore and for good reason.

Yeah the Gropp thing was not terribly unexpected. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the same happened with Ronning next year.

 

[B17 Apricots]

The more I think about it, we need to fix our drafting department, they seem to be too many times out of touch with reality. Gordie Clark went on record and told some outlandish things. I am not sure if he is doing it to hype up the prospects or fans or if they genuinely believe those things. So when you look like a complete idiot now looking back at 2015 draft where you claimed Gropp was 6th best forward you lose all credibility and you are a problem, not a solution:

2015 NHL Entry Draft Picks at hockeydb.com

Hopefully we don't see the same exact case with Henriksson where we take a guy with a high pick playing alongside an elite prospect that makes him look better than he is. I don't know if his numbers reflect how he's played since I haven't been able to see him but man we've had a lot of bad 2nd round choices over the years

 

[Mikos87]

Athletically not gifted? Didn't he perform great at the draft combine?

Was that a matter of being more physically mature than his peers?

He's also a late birthday so he had an extra year to fill out.

A guy whose athletically gifted is a Nils Hoglander who posted NHL level numbers at the combine.

 

[cwede]

Honestly Gropp not reporting isn’t that weird to me either. At some age if someone can’t hack it in the AHL well, they might just not want to do this anymore and for good reason.

Yeah but I do not agree that such a time comes during your ELC.
The point of ELCs being 3 years, or just 2 for older prospects, is because each player adapts differently, and some need more time for the on-, or off-, ice aspects of their games to come together as effective pros.
These kids arent really thinking of their pro career when they balk.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Yeah, if anything this should be the last nail in the coffin for Gordie Clark.

I'm shocked that he kept his job after the McIlrath debacle.

Besides that, I'm starting to question the culture and the leadership in the locker room throughout the organization. I know this has been discussed ad nauseum in this thread, but it's very bizarre to have two very recent top 10 picks leave the team after coming over from overseas within a period of weeks. What is going on in Hartford? Are these kids seeing plugs like Smith and Haley get minutes with the big club and see Fast getting top 6 minutes by Quinn and getting pissed off, thinking "why aren't I getting those minutes or at least a chance to prove myself"?

The onus isn't all on the coaching and front office, however. Amateur scouts interview these kids pretty extensively at the combine and watch hours of game tape and in person scouting before any amateur draft. This is where Gordie comes in. Are these flags coming up before the draft? I find it hard to believe that the Rangers (and other teams) don't do their homework and don't see these flags come up.

It sucks, because there are a lot of European players I like in this upcoming draft, but it wouldn't surprise me to see the Rangers take a good 'ol American or Canadian boy over a European skater than may be better now because of these issues with Andersson and Kravtsov.

As for Andersson, I'm in the "let him rot in Sweden" camp. Let him build up a small semblance of value, because no GM in the league is even going to trade a 3rd rounder for him at this point. For that little of a return, let him rot and be suspended without pay.

He also committed the cardinal sin of he or his agent publicly leaking that he wants out. GM's are going to see this and be reluctant to take him on because he'll just pull the same shit with the new team if things don't go his way. It's career suicide for the kid really in the long run.

 

[ruaware41]

Hot take or not, my hunch is it will prove to be an accurate one. A top 10 pick busts from a league that is not exactly pumping out top end talent in the past few drafts will definitely make people take pause drafting from that league.

That's not how any of this works. You don't make a conclusion on an entire league based on one player who's production doesn't translate over. If that in fact is how people drafting think they need to go back to school because that's simply embarrassing

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I’m big time on the let’s draft some North American (specifically Canadian) high end prospects train.

 

[Leetch3]

Kravtsov going back to Russia, Gropp failing to report in Maine, Reunanen opting to go back (even though it was widely expected) and now Lias requesting a trade. That's 3 or 4 instances just the past 3 months. Is that reason enough to worry? At the very least I feel it warrants a look in the mirror to see if the organization could have done things differently. By no means am I saying the players aren't to blame, but when you have 3 cases like this (Not counting Reunanen) in 3 months, it's close to becoming a trend.

They flew in Ruutu to help Kakko. Why didn't they put the same effort in for their other top-10 picks? Did the Rangers do everything they could to avoid this situation? I'm not sure. It's interesting to at the very least debate it but I am afraid it will just be brushed off because I'm the one bringing it up and people will call me a fanboy or something. Oh well.

Tarmo doesn’t count he was always planned to go back. Kravtsov, gropp and lias are on them not the organization. And I bet now that kravtsov is back in Hartford if you asked him he would say he reacted to quickly the first time and should have given himself time to adjust.

And if the organizations biggest flaw is not giving time to self entitled kids that think they have earned something before they actually have I’m ok with that

 

[JHS]

That's not how any of this works. You don't make a conclusion on an entire league based on one player who's production doesn't translate over. If that in fact is how people drafting think they need to go back to school because that's simply embarrassing

If you don’t think Lias failing in the NHL( if he in fact does fail) will give pause to evaluating similar talents from the Swedish league differently, I’m afraid you are being pretty short sighted. I know players are evaluated on an individual level— that’s obvious and does not need to be said. My point is, as a comparison, my hunch is the Swedish league took a step back in terms of how favorably it is viewed as a developmental league or as a way to accurately measure potential. I’m not sure how that’s debatable.

Evaluating players also needs to take into account quality of competition on a nightly basis. Again, I have no idea how the Swedish league compares to other junior leagues and won’t pretend to be an expert— but common sense tells you, if I was running a company and hired a guy from some university and he failed, I might take another look before hiring from that same university( in this case drafting) again, unless the person had far superior skills.

 

[ruaware41]

If you don’t think Lias failing in the NHL( if he in fact does fail) will give pause to evaluating similar talents from the Sweedish league differently, I’m afraid you are being pretty short sighted. I know players are evaluated on an individual level— that’s obvious and does not need to be said. My point is, as a comparison, my hunch is the Swedish league to a step back in terms of how favorably it is viewed as a developmental league or as a way to accurately measure potential. I’m not sure how that’s debatable.

Evaluating players also needs to take into account quality of competition on a nightly basis. Again, I have no idea how the Swedish league compares to other junior leagues and won’t pretend to be an expert— but common sense tells you, if I was running a company and hired a guy from some university and he failed, I might take another look before hiring from that same university( in this case drafting) again, unless the person had far superior skills.

..... You don't think the stance that how an entire league will be viewed will be drastically changed because of one player being nowhere near expectations is at all debatable?
Also, no that is not what common sense tells you at all. In your example all that can be said is that you were unfortunate enough to hire someone who wasn't a fit; one person failing is not representative of the university itself but just one individual. If that would be your actual thought process that is sad. Common sense is to view the entire data set to determine a pattern and calculate numbers like the standard deviation to help determine fluctuation from the mean. Would you mind sharing your highest level of education completed and what major? I'm not hating, I'm just curious.

Also if people did things your way no one would draft from the OHL anymore because of how many high performing players there were that could not translate it well enough to the NHL. You look at the entire data sets before judging a league with 100s and 100s of players, not a single anecdote before altering your perception of the entire darn league.

 

[SA16]

If anything teams should draft from Sweden more going forward since after the failure of Lias they are due to churn out some quality players.

 

[LokiDog]

I still think that there is something to be said for having giving Lias a shot. It’s not like we’re a great or deep team. There would have been zero harm in giving him a cup of coffee with some of our top talent. Maybe his skill set and confidence aren’t high enough to drive a line. Maybe he just isn’t suited to being on a grind line. But what if he had clicked as a very good compliment on a line with Panarin and Strome and gotten some confidence going to the net and making smart plays in the corner? I think his niche in the NHL where he will be successful is to be effective on the cycle and as a garbage man all around the paint. If you’re on a line that never has zone time and possession you’ll never get to show that. So if that’s the A level part of your game and the rest is C level, you’re just going to look like a C or D level player if you virtually have zero opportunities to display your strong points.

There is something to be said for putting players in the right roles. Now I’m not saying I think there’s ANY guarantee or even likelihood that he’d have excelled in the role I’m talking about, but you wouldn’t make Panarin a 4th line center with Haley and McKegg because it would be negating all the good parts of his game and asking him to play the wrong role. I’m not in anyway comparing Lias to Panarin. My point is instead of stapling him to that line and those minutes, why weren’t we trying other roles with our recent 7OA to see if there was a role he could thrive in? What if he looked really good on the LW with Zib and Buch, for example? I do think you sort of have to try plugging your high pick guy into a variety of situations and see if you can get him in the role that maximizes his effectiveness rather than just saying well, we gave him 4C and he didn’t do anything so we don’t like his game and we’re ready to move on. We invested one of our highest picks ever in him. Once you make that investment you should try everything possible with them. A couple games centering good wingers. A couple games on the wing with good player. A couple games of PP minutes net front. What is the harm or what did we have to lose? We keep preaching this “he didn’t earn it” mentality but there are different roles in hockey. We tried him in one role.

As inexcusable as the entitlement and publicly asking out is, it is plausible to understand his frustration. Chytil gets called up and immediately gets plugged into an ideal situation with talented wingers. Howden keeps getting minutes with a rotation of better talent. Andersson just never got a cup of coffee anywhere but the bottom and he DID look improved out of camp. So he clearly put in some work and I could understand the disappointment and frustration on his behalf. Doesn’t make what he did right, but he’s a kid and he’s immature. Regardless, I feel like even if he’d been unsuccessful and still ended up getting sent down, he’d have a lot less resentment and be more willing to work hard and keep growing if he’d been given opportunities in a variety of roles and felt that if he worked on his game he’d be given opportunities again later down the road. Since he never got a shot anywhere but on the worst line with limited minutes, he feels like he has no future here. If we’d plugged him into various roles throughout the lineup to see if we could get him in a position he thrived in, even if it failed entirely, we probably wouldn’t be looking any different in the standings right now so, again what did we have to lose? What harm would it have done?

 

[Matz03]

One issue seemingly skipped over are the repeated examples of rushing young prospects. Nils Lundqvist is an outlier, left in Sweden to grow up and develop, shouldn’t this be the normal path? Unless someone is a top 1-3 pick or breaking the door down on making the team, let them stay home wherever they are from. To me it’s always been super questionable this need to bring everyone over, on top of that it’s terrible asset management, and this goes back years.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

I liked him so much in that Boston game late last year. I think there was some weird microcontroversy about him fighting someone or not fighting someone? But for whatever reason he was everywhere. Don’t remember if he got good line mates or not. Of course Matt Puempel got a hat trick once, all these guys we talk about are “good players” besides the total goons, but it was a game that stuck out to me.

I’m sure they have a shortlist - maybe some guys in similar situations, maybe some lower-profile risers comparable to idk Hunter Skinner. But if they can’t get what they want they don’t have to get their asses kicked in the media for a third round pick, let him find his game back home.

 

[JHS]

..... You don't think the stance that how an entire league will be viewed will be drastically changed because of one player being nowhere near expectations is at all debatable?
Also, no that is not what common sense tells you at all. In your example all that can be said is that you were unfortunate enough to hire someone who wasn't a fit; one person failing is not representative of the university itself but just one individual. If that would be your actual thought process that is sad. Common sense is to view the entire data set to determine a pattern and calculate numbers like the standard deviation to help determine fluctuation from the mean. Would you mind sharing your highest level of education completed and what major? I'm not hating, I'm just curious.

Also if people did things your way no one would draft from the OHL anymore because of how many high performing players there were that could not translate it well enough to the NHL. You look at the entire data sets before judging a league with 100s and 100s of players, not a single anecdote before altering your perception of the entire darn league.

Sure- I have a masters degree in Education and history— but not sure how that anything to do with anything. I did not know we had literacy tests to post here or when you were made Czar of posting credentials. I did not say Lias failing would make an entire league become obsolete— what I said, and as I teach my students, it’s important to read carefully, is people may second guess future prospects coming from a league in which a top 10 talent failed. This is a logical conclusion to make given that this player failed and was propped up as being “NHL ready.” If a so called “NHL ready” player turns our to not be NHL ready, I think it’s really hard not to take pause drafting from that league again under similar circumstances. Meaning, the Rangers should stick to North American talent for a bit.

If the player has elite talent that’s one thing— but this was not that case.

Your point about the OHL helps tomprove my point— that league is much deeper than the Swedish league and therefore has way more people drafted and a higher chance of busting.

 

[ruaware41]

Sure- I have a masters degree in Education and history— but not sure sure how that anything to do with anything. I did not know we had literacy tests to post here or when you were made Czar of posting credentials. I did not say Lias failing would make an entire league become obsolete— what I said, and as I teach my students, it’s important to read carefully, is people may second guess future prospects coming from a league in which a top 10 talent failed. This is a logically conclusion to make given that this player failed and was propped up as being “NHL ready.” If a so called “NHL ready” player urns our to not be NHL ready, I think it’s really hard not to take pause drafting from that league again under similar circumstances.

If the player has elite talent that’s one thing— but this was not that case.

Your point about the OHL helps tomprove my point— that league is much deeper than the Swedish league and therefore has way more people drafted and a higher chance of busting.

So not econ/math/stats eh. Jk but drafting is volatile and at the end of the day many players regularly fail to meet expectations. My point about the OHL was sarcastic and doesn't prove your point. If so many players bust even though they used to be high producers in the OHL, do teams all of a sudden hesitate when it comes to drafting from the O? No. A single anecdote doesn't make any knowledgeable person think that they should be hesitant when it comes to another top 10 talent that is from that same league. Otherwise no one would draft OHL top 10 players anymore where there are multiple cases of players busting.

A top 10 player busting from any league is more of a norm than an outlier. I only asked for your academic background because your line of thinking is very statistically flawed and absolutely not representative of the thought process involved in any kind of forecasting. I genuinely cannot believe the things you are saying right now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. One player who was never deemed a generational level player and was deemed an NHL ready player but did not in fact prove to be NHL ready does not make it hard to draft another player from that league deemed NHL ready. If it was a recurring non stop phenomenon more prevalent than in other leagues, sure, it might suggest a unique systematic issue with the league. If it's just one player, well it's just one player who could've failed for a multitude of reasons including ones related to his own autonomy. If it's recurring more so than in other leagues, then it's worth deeper league wide scrutiny.

 

[JHS]

So not econ/math/stats eh. Jk but drafting is volatile and at the end of the day many players regularly fail to meet expectations. My point about the OHL was sarcastic and doesn't prove your point. If so many players bust even though they used to be high producers in the OHL, do teams all of a sudden hesitate when it comes to drafting from the O? No. A single anecdote doesn't make any knowledgeable person think that they should be hesitant when it comes to another top 10 talent that is from that same league. Otherwise no one would draft OHL top 10 players anymore where there are multiple cases of players busting.

A top 10 player busting from any league is more of a norm than an outlier. I only asked for your academic background because your line of thinking is very statistically flawed and absolutely not representative of the thought process involved in any kind of forecasting. I genuinely cannot believe the things you are saying right now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. One player who was never deemed a generational level player and was deemed an NHL ready player but did not in fact prove to be NHL ready does not make it hard to draft another player from that league deemed NHL ready. If it was a recurring non stop phenomenon more prevalent than in other leagues, sure, it might suggest a unique systematic issue with the league. If it's just one player, well it's just one player who could've failed for a multitude of reasons including ones related to his own autonomy. If it's recurring more so than in other leagues, then it's worth deeper league wide scrutiny.

You seem like an OK guy so I’ll keep going with this. You are taking my point one step beyond where aim taking it— which seems a trend around here. Of course teams will continue to draft from leagues where players bust— otherwise no one would be left to pick. Here’s my point— Lias had a great year in a half in a league that is far lower than the NHL that produces less NHL’ers than the O. So what that’s says to me is the competition level is lower in that league( translation— it’s easier to put up good numbers in that league because the player is competing against worse players.) Therefore, since Lias failed in showing himself capable of making it in the NHL and has serious flaws in his game that were covered up by the larger ice surface, weaker competition and such— those factors should be elevated when evaluating the talent coming from that league. I’m not talking statistical probability of making it to the NHL from any one league. What I’m saying is factors like competition must be factored in way more when evaluating talent.

I found this link that’s breaks down the 2018 draft. I found it interessting so thought I’d share it.
2018 NHL Draft Notes

 

[CasusBelli]

One issue seemingly skipped over are the repeated examples of rushing young prospects. Nils Lundqvist is an outlier, left in Sweden to grow up and develop, shouldn’t this be the normal path? Unless someone is a top 1-3 pick or breaking the door down on making the team, let them stay home wherever they are from. To me it’s always been super questionable this need to bring everyone over, on top of that it’s terrible asset management, and this goes back years.

Even if the player is top-three, an additional year overseas or a year in the AHL isn’t the worst idea. He needs to mature physically in order to compete in an increasingly physically-driven sport. Many of those without the physical abilities of OV or McDavid, or the brains of Crosby, would likely benefit from that extra year of seasoning.

 

[Rempe73]

Rangers sometimes suffering from the Maple Leafs syndrome, lacking of patience developing talents.

Lmao you don’t know what you’re talking about bud. First of all, I have plenty of patience for developing talents, but 1) Lias isn’t very talented. 2) Lias took a step back in development. It seemed as though he peaked when he was 18. And 3) I have plenty of patience for prospects with upside or who have been picked later than 7th overall. LA doesn’t have that upside and, through no fault of his own, was picked 7th overall, praised as being NHL ready, and said to be a safe bet to develop into a good middle 6 forward. And I’ll take that, even if it was a reach.

However, waiting 4-5 years for a 7th overall pick to develop into a bottom 6 player? No thanks. If I’m waiting that long for a high pick, he needs to have a lot of upside. Or, if he doesn’t have that upside, then I expect him to be NHL-ready almost immediately. If you’re getting a “safe” pick in the later rounds, that’s a different story. I expect to wait.

LA still has time, but what he did was kind of uncalled for and shows something about his character. And that makes me ecstatic that we’re getting rid of a kid like that. I’m only angry because he asked for a trade after he tanked his value. I mean, the kid hasn’t done anything for me. Hasn’t impressed, hasn’t developed, and now asks for a trade when his value is at an all-time low.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Lmao you don’t know what you’re talking about bud. First of all, I have plenty of patience for developing talents, but 1) Lias isn’t very talented. 2) Lias took a step back in development. It seemed as though he peaked when he was 18. And 3) I have plenty of patience for prospects with upside or who have been picked later than 7th overall. LA doesn’t have that upside and, through no fault of his own, was picked 7th overall, praised as being NHL ready, and said to be a safe bet to develop into a good middle 6 forward. And I’ll take that, even if it was a reach.

However, waiting 4-5 years for a 7th overall pick to develop into a bottom 6 player? No thanks. If I’m waiting that long for a high pick, he needs to have a lot of upside. Or, if he doesn’t have that upside, then I expect him to be NHL-ready almost immediately. If you’re getting a “safe” pick in the later rounds, that’s a different story. I expect to wait.

LA still has time, but what he did was kind of uncalled for and shows something about his character. And that makes me ecstatic that we’re getting rid of a kid like that. I’m only angry because he asked for a trade after he tanked his value. I mean, the kid hasn’t done anything for me. Hasn’t impressed, hasn’t developed, and now asks for a trade when his value is at an all-time low.

I believe the request was made earlier but he (and/or his advisors) felt a deal should have been done by now, so they went public to speed things up.

 

[RangersFan1994]

Rangers get Klim Kostin
Blues get Lias Andersson

Kostin and Kravtsov has some chemistry. And Kostin is a big physical forward.

Any chance this happenes??

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Rangers get Klim Kostin
Blues get Lias Andersson

Kostin and Kravtsov has some chemistry. And Kostin is a big physical forward.

Any chance this happened??

If St.Louis values Kostin correctly, that deal wont fly in a million years.