Confirmed with Link: Lias Andersson asks for trade. No longer with NYR.

[RangersFan1994]

If St.Louis values Kostin correctly, that deal wont fly in a million years.

Always been a fan of his. I'm look at other first round oicks that can use a change of scenery.

I'd like Sam Bennett from the Flames, but would cost more than Andersson

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Rangers get Klim Kostin
Blues get Lias Andersson

Kostin and Kravtsov has some chemistry. And Kostin is a big physical forward.

Any chance this happenes??

could be a good deal for both teams. He spent over 2 seasons in AHL and received only 4 NHL games. So the Blues likely are not crazy about him.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If St.Louis values Kostin correctly, that deal wont fly in a million years.

As a fan of Kostin, what has he done to hold more value than Lias?

 

[dshea19]

I thought he was injured. Is Kostin healthy?

 

[Boris Zubov]

Thank you man, it was tough but in the end the coal mine got him.

It always does. Just ask Sting.

 

[SA16]

As a fan of Kostin, what has he done to hold more value than Lias?

Not demanding a trade and leaving his team mid-season would be a pretty big part of it.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

As a fan of Kostin, what has he done to hold more value than Lias?

has more size and plays a lot more physical.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

As a fan of Kostin, what has he done to hold more value than Lias?

Ultimately it's skating.

Stat-wise he has taken more penalties, that's about it. The offense is pretty much the same for both, Kostin with better puck-control?

I guess size really doesn't count, but it does to me. Kostin is basically a bull on skates.

I remember when he played with Kravtsov and they scored, he came in from behind to celebrate with Krav, he almost broke is back, he hugged him so hard.

If I'm St.Louis, I'd just keep him

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Not demanding a trade and leaving his team mid-season would be a pretty big part of it.

Puljujarvi requested a trade and his value didn't dip.
St Louis literally forced his way to 1 team and his value didn't dip.
Same for Adam Fox.

Kostin's value wasn't necessarily higher than Lias' earlier so I am not sure it is now. I think Ranger fans overestimate the value of other 2017 prospects

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Ultimately it's skating.

Stat-wise he has taken more penalties, that's about it. The offense is pretty much the same for both, Kostin with better puck-control?

I guess size really doesn't count, but it does to me. Kostin is basically a bull on skates.

I remember when he played with Kravtsov and they scored, he came in from behind to celebrate with Krav, he almost broke is back, he hugged him so hard.

If I'm St.Louis, I'd just keep him

that is exactly type of player we need on this team.

 

[Edge]

And the whole north-south desire for the Rangers has finally made it to the rumor mills and social media platforms.

 

[ruaware41]

You seem like an OK guy so I’ll keep going with this. You are taking my point one step beyond where aim taking it— which seems a trend around here. Of course teams will continue to draft from leagues where players bust— otherwise no one would be left to pick. Here’s my point— Lias had a great year in a half in a league that is far lower than the NHL that produces less NHL’ers than the O. So what that’s says to me is the competition level is lower in that league( translation— it’s easier to put up good numbers in that league because the player is competing against worse players.) Therefore, since Lias failed in showing himself capable of making it in the NHL and has serious flaws in his game that were covered up by the larger ice surface, weaker competition and such— those factors should be elevated when evaluating the talent coming from that league. I’m not talking statistical probability of making it to the NHL from any one league. What I’m saying is factors like competition must be factored in way more when evaluating talent.

I found this link that’s breaks down the 2018 draft. I found it interessting so thought I’d share it.
2018 NHL Draft Notes

Yea that's a reasonable take and when you put it like that I definitely see where you are coming from. I was saying that an individual's own decision making factors into their outcomes as well, such as let's say he got injured or "lazy" or lost motivation or a lingering injury they're playing through but now I see more clearly what you are saying and weren't necessarily disagreeing with that but were giving consideration to looking into systematic differences that can lead to misunderstanding the projection of a player in the NHL. It's definitely through observation and analysis that we reach a greater understanding of things so it shouldn't be dismissed as a mere anecdote to excuse further research for sure. Sorry if I came across as a dick, I just realized that I'm not on the main boards so I shouldn't even be on here and thanks for putting up with me. The new HFboards system can be confusing when you're a few drinks in with the "new posts" section on the front page lol. Happy holidays.

 

[Baby Punisher]

I always keep thinking about how Sweden's top line at the WJC was ****e until they moved Lias there. That whole scenario to me is who Lias is. It's clearly a stage/level that he was fully developed at and although not the stud, he helped pick the studs up.

I always have felt he was meant to be a top end middle six guy who is a real pain to play against and can finish for his teammates as well as help them get the job done and open up the ice with his peskiness.

Apparently the Rangers felt that way about him too.........

 

[member 290103]

Still think Goldobin is fair value. Straight up.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

And the whole north-south desire for the Rangers has finally made it to the rumor mills and social media platforms.

Trade for Nathan Walker (Australia, south), and get the Blues to throw in a pick we can use on Yan Kuznetsov (Murmansk, Russia; north)

 

[JHS]

Yea that's a reasonable take and when you put it like that I definitely see where you are coming from. I was saying that an individual's own decision making factors into their outcomes as well, such as let's say he got injured or "lazy" or lost motivation or a lingering injury they're playing through but now I see more clearly what you are saying and weren't necessarily disagreeing with that but were giving consideration to looking into systematic differences that can lead to misunderstanding the projection of a player in the NHL. It's definitely through observation and analysis that we reach a greater understanding of things so it shouldn't be dismissed as a mere anecdote to excuse further research for sure. Sorry if I came across as a dick, I just realized that I'm not on the main boards so I shouldn't even be on here and thanks for putting up with me. The new HFboards system can be confusing when you're a few drinks in with the "new posts" section on the front page lol. Happy holidays.

No worries! I just post on the Rangers page myself so it’s all good!

I appreciate a good discussion and don’t mind being questioned about my thoughts. The reality is posting on a message board with text as the only way to communicate has its flaws— one being it can take a few exchanges just to make a point clear enough. Happy holidays to you too and Let’s Go Rangers!!

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

So not econ/math/stats eh. Jk but drafting is volatile and at the end of the day many players regularly fail to meet expectations. My point about the OHL was sarcastic and doesn't prove your point. If so many players bust even though they used to be high producers in the OHL, do teams all of a sudden hesitate when it comes to drafting from the O? No. A single anecdote doesn't make any knowledgeable person think that they should be hesitant when it comes to another top 10 talent that is from that same league. Otherwise no one would draft OHL top 10 players anymore where there are multiple cases of players busting.

A top 10 player busting from any league is more of a norm than an outlier. I only asked for your academic background because your line of thinking is very statistically flawed and absolutely not representative of the thought process involved in any kind of forecasting. I genuinely cannot believe the things you are saying right now and I'm sure I'm not the only one. One player who was never deemed a generational level player and was deemed an NHL ready player but did not in fact prove to be NHL ready does not make it hard to draft another player from that league deemed NHL ready. If it was a recurring non stop phenomenon more prevalent than in other leagues, sure, it might suggest a unique systematic issue with the league. If it's just one player, well it's just one player who could've failed for a multitude of reasons including ones related to his own autonomy. If it's recurring more so than in other leagues, then it's worth deeper league wide scrutiny.

A top 10 pick busting is absolutely NOT the norm.

Note: I'm talking about drafting as a whole. I'm not talking about drafting by the Rangers which could have been accomplished possibly better by Koko the Gorilla, [may she RIP] who did have access to a crude computer supplied by Apple, but I don't know if she had internet access, which would have effected her usefulness on draft days.

-Koko [c.2003] sitting in bewilderment at the Hugh Jessiman pick

 

[eco's bones]

Just as a purely offensive comparable Andersson has scored at 0.53 a game in the AHL and Kostin at a 0.40. Andersson also has spent considerably more time in the NHL. In that respect I could see the Blues at least considering a one for one deal though Kostin's 9 points in 20 AHL games this year is an uptick while Andersson's play seems to have a downtick.

As a Rangers fan putting on my GM hat I don't know if I'd want to do that. I think Lias could still be something other than a bust and I think Kostin is leaning towards being a bust. The ceilings for both of these guys doesn't reach beyond 3rd line anymore. But anyway we're in a position where we don't really have much choice other than move Lias along. If we're moving Kreider at the deadline I would consider throwing in Lias in the deal--the team trading for Kreider then can go back to their fanbase and say to them 'yeah it wasn't just about getting a rental--we've got a good young prospect too'.....and if we can enhance what we get back for Kreider it works for us too.

 

[perolofbrasar]

Here are my 2 cents. Maybe a narrow angle, because I sometimes tend to overfocus on hockey-iq. I see the flaws in Lias' skating, but put less emphasis on that issue.

Lias just isn't able to process the game at the speed required for him to be a successful NHL-er.

Now, the tricky part here is that this "required speed" is different for different players. The limit is set individually at the point where you are not able to play your A-game anymore, unable to use the skills that are your strength - that define you as a hockey player. And we are talking game evolvement speed, not foot speed here.

This ceiling normally hits players at the ages 15-18, when speed generally picks up drastically and the ice-surface "shrinks", free ice is no more. Then comes increased quality of competition (including playing against men) and lastly, for European NHL-prospects, the actual reduction in rink size.

So what's the solution for Lias? Well, either accept your ceiling and settle for another playground. Or grind it out like Magnus Paajarvi (once a consensus generational talent, playing World Juniors as a three-year underager, who hit a similar ceiling as Lias is facing now). Or change your style of play to better fit in a role that is in demand and that you may have a bigger chance mastering. This is of course much easier said than done - after all, the player you are is usually a product of why you fell in love with hockey in the first place. But there are examples - Marcus Krüger always comes to mind, transforming from an entertainingly offensively skillful, goal scoring youngster taking the SHL by storm to a world class shut down center winning cups with the Blackhawks.

Finally I have a question to those HF-posters who have better understanding of the scouting process (including the combine event): Why isn't more done to try to single out how players process the game? After all, there is obviously huge value in getting an edge here. Or at least not picking lemons.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I’m big time on the let’s draft some North American (specifically Canadian) high end prospects train.

For what reason other than xenophobia?

The problem is Clark is just as likely to draft a top 10 damage case out of any part of the world

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

For what reason other than xenophobia?

The problem is Clark is just as likely to draft a top 10 damage case out of any part of the world

Krahn
Leclaire
Bouchard
Barker
Picard
Brule
Bourdon
Sheppard

Drafting Europeans isn't the problem. There are enough Canadian/American busts in the top 10 over the years

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Kravtsov going back to Russia, Gropp failing to report in Maine, Reunanen opting to go back (even though it was widely expected) and now Lias requesting a trade. That's 3 or 4 instances just the past 3 months. Is that reason enough to worry? At the very least I feel it warrants a look in the mirror to see if the organization could have done things differently. By no means am I saying the players aren't to blame, but when you have 3 cases like this (Not counting Reunanen) in 3 months, it's close to becoming a trend.

They flew in Ruutu to help Kakko. Why didn't they put the same effort in for their other top-10 picks? Did the Rangers do everything they could to avoid this situation? I'm not sure. It's interesting to at the very least debate it but I am afraid it will just be brushed off because I'm the one bringing it up and people will call me a fanboy or something. Oh well.

Gropp doesnt count in all of this he has been hot garbage and Reunanen was never stayin anyway. I think with the other two they believed their own hype and felt they were locks to make the big club this year and were upset when they didn't. Andersson and Kakko both should have went to Hartford to start the year. I'm a firm believer in making players earn their ice and in following a road map towards the nhl. So going to the AHL until you prove you are ready for the next step is the best way imo. This way there are no expectations of making the nhl out of junior, and if the kid starts in Hartford and tears it up he comes up, if he still isnt ready he goes back down, imo it's less of a shock.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

Krahn
Leclaire
Bouchard
Barker
Picard
Brule
Bourdon
Sheppard

Drafting Europeans isn't the problem. There are enough Canadian/American busts in the top 10 over the years

Europeans need the AHL to get seasoned, for the most part the CHL players are used to this style of play, size of rink, schedule and travel. There is a lot to get used to for euros on the team. There are gonna be missed picks anywhere but imo CHL players overall are more NHL ready.

 

[Good Intentions]

Trade for Nathan Walker (Australia, south), and get the Blues to throw in a pick we can use on Yan Kuznetsov (Murmansk, Russia; north)

This is a realistic proposal, IMO.

Gut feeling - Gorton puts Lias on ice and makes him even more irrelevant than he is now.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Gropp doesnt count in all of this he has been hot garbage and Reunanen was never stayin anyway. I think with the other two they believed their own hype and felt they were locks to make the big club this year and were upset when they didn't. Andersson and Kakko both should have went to Hartford to start the year. I'm a firm believer in making players earn their ice and in following a road map towards the nhl. So going to the AHL until you prove you are ready for the next step is the best way imo. This way there are no expectations of making the nhl out of junior, and if the kid starts in Hartford and tears it up he comes up, if he still isnt ready he goes back down, imo it's less of a shock.

Gropp counts when we are talking about this issue.

Europeans need the AHL to get seasoned, for the most part the CHL players are used to this style of play, size of rink, schedule and travel. There is a lot to get used to for euros on the team. There are gonna be missed picks anywhere but imo CHL players overall are more NHL ready.

And yet a lot of Canadians still need time in the AHL. And there are enough examples of Europeans who make the NHL without ever needing time in the AHL.

The difference isn't nationality. It's skill.