Confirmed with Link: Lias Andersson asks for trade. No longer with NYR.

[WojtekWolski86]

I think the Herb Brooks quote "you don't have enough talent to win on talent alone" applies to Lias. I think his work ethic compared to his peers made him stand out at the lower levels but once you get to the NHL almost everyone is competing with the "put food on the table" mentality. Once he lost that edge I think he didnt know how to belong.

If he turned out to be Fast at Center I dont think there would be a riot but he is turning out to be more like a 5th round pick then a 7OA. It happens.

 

[Mikos87]

Hidden irony that I somehow missed? Getting suspended without pay for willingly leaving a team for no reason and staying at home probably eating burgers instead of working out as well as publically demanding a trade isn't gonna kill his value more than playing games? Really

The upside is to the Rangers is that other team's pro scouts don't get to see him dog it. His value is rock bottom as it can be for a player of his status. No doubts there, but the brightside is the body of hockey work can't get any worse with him sitting out.

Does quitting on his team hurt his value? Of course it does. We're talking Nikita Filatov levels of value here with him.

 

[Mikos87]

Really the test in the NHL is whether they're involved enough in the play--whether or not they're always half a step behind on offense---whether they're winning board battles and getting scoring opportunities--whether they're always getting lost on the backcheck. Lias was failing on way too much of this. That's why he ended up in Hartford. That said Howden isn't great at a lot of this either but he's been better than Lias. Nieves IMO is a better player than either in a limited checking role. Chytil started in Hartford--watched a bunch of Sidney Crosby videos and afterwards his defensive play got a lot better. That was one of his worst faults--not nearly as bad now. Filip is also figuring out his size and strength and leaning on people more. His face-offs need work. Young players are works in progress--Lias had stopped progressing. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery.

Plus skating ability. Guys that can skate.

In the 2011 and 2014 draft threads here I called out Andreas Athanasiou and Brayden Point as being missed opportunities, Point in particular. Those guys stuck out in junior hockey based on their skillsets. But personally speaking, I'm not able to catch that at the AHL level since teams play at a cohesive pace.

On Lias- he did, but is it a matter of stopped progressing or peaking at 19. The Rangers had this happen with Del Zotto.

The one thing that will get teams to bite on you in today's game is skating ability. If you can skate, you will get a look.

Lias isn't a great skater. He's not athletically gifted enough to not go balls out every shift.

Maybe some team bites on his sense of entitlement and is charitable enough to gift him some NHL ice time.

 

[Mikos87]

I think the Herb Brooks quote "you don't have enough talent to win on talent alone" applies to Lias. I think his work ethic compared to his peers made him stand out at the lower levels but once you get to the NHL almost everyone is competing with the "put food on the table" mentality. Once he lost that edge I think he didnt know how to belong.

If he turned out to be Fast at Center I dont think there would be a riot but he is turning out to be more like a 5th round pick then a 7OA. It happens.

I don't think he lost that edge, I think he was indifferent. Even in his 3-10 minutes of ice time, he didn't do anything to stand out. He coasted every game like he didn't care. The only time he was engaged is when some guy got in his grill.

 

[Inferno]

Most rankings pre draft had him as a very good prospect, it wasn’t some idea the Rangers pulled out of nowhere.

And everyone in here seems very sure he’s totally done. He’s still a kid. He came into camp looking sharper and more effective. He shouldn’t have stopped caring once he didn’t get the minutes and chances he wanted, but he did do that and it’s still possible he can be something in this league when he cares and finds a place that will give him the chances.

Fair but I put that on the rangers ability to rank prospects. Again, I've been wrong plenty, but I woulda taken brannstrom.

 

[Mikos87]

Fair but I put that on the rangers ability to rank prospects. Again, I've been wrong plenty, but I woulda taken brannstrom.

Hindsight being 20/20 I'd go with Necas. RH Shooting Center with size, speed and skill?

That was passed in favor of what? An entitled inferior athlete?

You draft the scarcer commodity. Those players are harder to come by. I'm not sure what the Rangers aversion is to drafting right shots.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Sorry but my dead pet canary knows more about Swedish Junior leagues, I guarantee you never ever saw one game. Congrats you got a player analysis right by accident.

The hey I googled some stats one year worked, Woohoo maybe one day you can be PB. Congratulations you and the other guy you mentioned who is almost never right got one, simply amazing, continue to brag.

RIP to you canary.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

I still feel with some work Lias will be a decent player but we really did draft based on current need and not what was the best player. They felt Lias could jump into the lineup and provide good minutes right away. They were wrong

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I still feel with some work Lias will be a decent player but we really did draft based on current need and not what was the best player. They felt Lias could jump into the lineup and provide good minutes right away. They were wrong

While this is all true, I have a hard time agreeing with people who claim we passed up on clearly better alternatives. 2.5 years after the draft, only a handful of players drafted after Lias are NHL regulars, one of them on our own team.

It was a weak draft. And had we drafted any Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Rasmussen or Tippett, we'd be having this same conversation. How our 7th overall pick isn't contributing in the NHL

 

[Miamipuck]

RIP to you canary.

Thank you man, it was tough but in the end the coal mine got him.

 

[Miamipuck]

While this is all true, I have a hard time agreeing with people who claim we passed up on clearly better alternatives. 2.5 years after the draft, only a handful of players drafted after Lias are NHL regulars, one of them on our own team.

It was a weak draft. And had we drafted any Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Rasmussen or Tippett, we'd be having this same conversation. How our 7th overall pick isn't contributing in the NHL

This is basically it. The draft sucked after #6. You can't manufacture good players if none are available but I love the posters tripping over themselves trying to.

The FO, correctly identified the players they wanted and they were gone when podium time came around. It freaking happens, it happened with Keller the year before.

As far as Lias, I am glad Lias did what he did. He saved us the hassle of arguing about improving and such. He didn't plateau, he was improving, he just wasn't willing to put the time in the AHL and totally went about it wrong. It speaks to a lack of character when he's supposed to have it in spades.

Personally, I think he could have and should have made it, he looked fairly good and certainly a capable player in the preseason and early parts of the season.

However, if this latest stunt is indicative of the way he practices, then maybe Quinn wasn't wrong. I would venture a guess the habits holding Quinn from giving him a role above a stiff like Howden, were clearly evident. I don't know it's just conjecture at this point.

Maybe there's more to the story and maybe there isn't. The one thing pissing me off is this is the second player that basically told Hartford to f*** off. Either the Rangers and their scouts need to be better at the psychological stuff and pick players with better constitution or maybe let the Euro's develop at their own pace in their own leagues or there's something rotten in Denmark.

Maybe a combination of the 3, I don't know but it is aggravating seeing this. It's the second time in a matter of months. That's a disturbing trend for a team that's supposed to be in a rebuild and developing young players. I mean they hired 2 coaching staffs with the specific task of developing the future Rangers.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Maybe there's more to the story and maybe there isn't. The one thing pissing me off is this is the second player that basically told Hartford to **** off. Either the Rangers and their scouts need to be better at the psychological stuff and pick players with better constitution or maybe let the soft Euro's develop at their own pace in their own leagues or there's something rotten in Denmark. Maybe a combination of the 3, I don't know but it is aggravating seeing this.

Kravtsov going back to Russia, Gropp failing to report in Maine, Reunanen opting to go back (even though it was widely expected) and now Lias requesting a trade. That's 3 or 4 instances just the past 3 months. Is that reason enough to worry? At the very least I feel it warrants a look in the mirror to see if the organization could have done things differently. By no means am I saying the players aren't to blame, but when you have 3 cases like this (Not counting Reunanen) in 3 months, it's close to becoming a trend.

They flew in Ruutu to help Kakko. Why didn't they put the same effort in for their other top-10 picks? Did the Rangers do everything they could to avoid this situation? I'm not sure. It's interesting to at the very least debate it but I am afraid it will just be brushed off because I'm the one bringing it up and people will call me a fanboy or something. Oh well.

 

[SML2]

As much as people are calling put the Rangers for poor asset management, let's forget about Lias and remember that they traded Stepan and their backup goalie for DeAngelo. That's a huge W thus far. Stepan is certainly overpaid for what he brings at this point. He's being outscored at a 2:1 ratio by ADA and Raanta can't stay healthy. So if we keep ADA and I hope we do, or we move him, which I think would bring a pretty good package back, I think they still won that trade hands down even if Lias flops and we never get anything for him.

 

[SML2]

Kravtsov going back to Russia, Gropp failing to report in Maine, Reunanen opting to go back (even though it was widely expected) and now Lias requesting a trade. That's 3 or 4 instances just the past 3 months. Is that reason enough to worry? At the very least I feel it warrants a look in the mirror to see if the organization could have done things differently. By no means am I saying the players aren't to blame, but when you have 3 cases like this (Not counting Reunanen) in 3 months, it's close to becoming a trend.

They flew in Ruutu to help Kakko. Why didn't they put the same effort in for their other top-10 picks? Did the Rangers do everything they could to avoid this situation? I'm not sure. It's interesting to at the very least debate it but I am afraid it will just be brushed off because I'm the one bringing it up and people will call me a fanboy or something. Oh well.

The Kakko Ruutuu thing is different. First this is a team that has Henrik, Mika and Fast on the team, all Swedes. Second, most Swedes speak pretty good English, which wasn't the case for Kakko. I don't fault the Euro guys for going back I guess. Picture yourself being stuck in whatever the minor league city equivalent of Hartford is on another country making AHL money. I don't think the mindset of players is the same nowadays. The grind and dues paying doesn't seem to be a characteristic of guys picked in the higher rounds.

 

[Miamipuck]

Kravtsov going back to Russia, Gropp failing to report in Maine, Reunanen opting to go back (even though it was widely expected) and now Lias requesting a trade. That's 3 or 4 instances just the past 3 months. Is that reason enough to worry? At the very least I feel it warrants a look in the mirror to see if the organization could have done things differently. By no means am I saying the players aren't to blame, but when you have 3 cases like this (Not counting Reunanen) in 3 months, it's close to becoming a trend.

They flew in Ruutu to help Kakko. Why didn't they put the same effort in for their other top-10 picks? Did the Rangers do everything they could to avoid this situation? I'm not sure. It's interesting to at the very least debate it but I am afraid it will just be brushed off because I'm the one bringing it up and people will call me a fanboy or something. Oh well.

I don't think Reunanen is a thing. I am certain they felt him going back was best for him or it was a mutual decision.

The others, that's the rub. It's a terrible look at developing players for a team that sent a letter out saying specifically this is what they wanted to accomplish.

Oh and I took soft Euro's out, lol people will think I was serious and I don't feel like going down that road.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Plus skating ability. Guys that can skate.

In the 2011 and 2014 draft threads here I called out Andreas Athanasiou and Brayden Point as being missed opportunities, Point in particular. Those guys stuck out in junior hockey based on their skillsets. But personally speaking, I'm not able to catch that at the AHL level since teams play at a cohesive pace.

On Lias- he did, but is it a matter of stopped progressing or peaking at 19. The Rangers had this happen with Del Zotto.

The one thing that will get teams to bite on you in today's game is skating ability. If you can skate, you will get a look.

Lias isn't a great skater. He's not athletically gifted enough to not go balls out every shift.

Maybe some team bites on his sense of entitlement and is charitable enough to gift him some NHL ice time.

Athletically not gifted? Didn't he perform great at the draft combine?

 

[Blue Blooded]

Lias's international production for a high pick was mediocre at best. Against his peers, he never stood out. That's not a good sign.

He scored 6 goals in 6 games until he got injured at the WJC and was the best forward on a team that included Elias Pettersson.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

I think this was a predicament to his season:

 

[Harbour Dog]

I think the Herb Brooks quote "you don't have enough talent to win on talent alone" applies to Lias. I think his work ethic compared to his peers made him stand out at the lower levels but once you get to the NHL almost everyone is competing with the "put food on the table" mentality. Once he lost that edge I think he didnt know how to belong.

If he turned out to be Fast at Center I dont think there would be a riot but he is turning out to be more like a 5th round pick then a 7OA. It happens.

This is a solid take that hits home for me. I was always a standout athlete growing up, but it was only because I worked hardder than anybody else. As I got older, and those more casual competitors were weeded out, I was left playing against more skilled guys who also hated losing as much as myself. I'm not a standout athlete anymore.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The Kakko Ruutuu thing is different. First this is a team that has Henrik, Mika and Fast on the team, all Swedes. Second, most Swedes speak pretty good English, which wasn't the case for Kakko. I don't fault the Euro guys for going back I guess. Picture yourself being stuck in whatever the minor league city equivalent of Hartford is on another country making AHL money. I don't think the mindset of players is the same nowadays. The grind and dues paying doesn't seem to be a characteristic of guys picked in the higher rounds.

It's not just about the ability to speak English. Lias moved as a teenager, leaving behind everything. You can't just assume the Swedish players on the team will just take away all the obstacles that come with adusting to a new country.

As someone who moved to another continent, I know the struggle. I moved to South Africa in my early 20s and when things aren't going as expected, it complicates everything. The most trivial things can become a huge obstacle. I never had anyone to help me through those moments, and from what I've heard neither did Lias aside from the few months he lived with Mika. But the moment he was demoted, he no longer had that to fall back on.

Kravtsov in Hartford played with Rykov and Shestyorkin but again, you can't just assume a fellow countryman/teammate takes away all the obstacles for a teenager.

Gropp clearly struggled with his demotion too, and did not report to Maine. Even though we have Canadians on the team. When you have 3 cases, with 3 players from 3 different countries, you look at the one constant.

My question here isn't "Did the Rangers do anything wrong?" but more "Could the Rangers have done more/differently to avoid this?"

 

[eco's bones]

The Rangers are playing 7 guys regular who are 21 years old or younger. It's not like they're not giving youth a chance. Some of them are just playing better than others of them. Kakko has struggled more than I thought he would but he's still only 18. He will get through it.

As far as the guys who left--Kravtsov came back and though it's only been a small sampling since--he seems to be doing better. Reunanen I think as far as this year anyway was always going back to Liiga. Gropp hasn't been a serious prospect for us since he turned pro. I get it's disappointing for him and Lias as well when they're demoted. Players have to find their niche with the teams they play on or they will always be subject to being sent down. Gropp has not been able to replicate the kind of player he was in the WHL at the AHL level. He was scorer there and he struggles to score in Hartford--the rest of his game is kind of average or worse.

One wonders about Lias--whether he took it too hard--whether he got down on himself--whether being home for the holidays became a thing instead of being in Hartford depressed about everything. He wasn't playing well in Hartford--I'm sure he expected more but it's not just the Rangers organization---he needed to play better.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

He scored 6 goals in 6 games until he got injured at the WJC and was the best forward on a team that included Elias Pettersson.

17-18? I don't think he stood out against his peers. The numbers were fine, but he was nothing special. He had already played in the NHL at that point as well. I certainly wasn't overly impressed with his game for his age and experience.

I guess if you just look at stats it may look like he played well.

 

[JHS]

This is a solid take that hits home for me. I was always a standout athlete growing up, but it was only because I worked hardder than anybody else. As I got older, and those more casual competitors were weeded out, I was left playing against more skilled guys who also hated losing as much as myself. I'm not a standout athlete anymore.

I think this is what a lot of people don’t get. The NHL is filled with the best players on their teams for their entire life. That’s not unique— what sets the guys apart that stick are the guys that have the skill Seth needed at the NHL level. Lias can’t skate well enough and that’s just too obvious to ignore. It should have been obvious to the front office too.

 

[Kakko Schmakko]

Does his dad still work for LA Kings?

 

[Do you want ants]

17-18? I don't think he stood out against his peers. The numbers were fine, but he was nothing special. He had already played in the NHL at that point as well. I certainly wasn't overly impressed with his game for his age and experience.

I guess if you just look at stats it may look like he played well.

He looked good at the world juniors. He drove his line with Petterson.

This part isn’t directed at you. But if we’re going to have prospects fail, isn’t it better to have the ones with the lower ceiling do it?

We can argue about if he was the correct pick but most of the ones we passed on that are doing well, weren’t seen as top 15 picks for the most part. So we still would have reached at 7.