Confirmed with Link: Lias Andersson asks for trade. No longer with NYR.

[Blue Blooded]

Zibanejad had 9 points in 26 GP in his draft year and 13 in 26 in his D+1.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Zibanejad had 9 points in 26 GP in his draft year and 13 in 26 in his D+1.

Development isn't linear. Not every player develops the same way, at the same age. Some just don't take that next step for whatever reason.

In 2017 we heard all about how we passed on Mittelstadt, in 2018 it was all about Wahlstrom. The "problem" here is that most fans in North America just aren't familiar with EU prospects and they tend focus on US and Canadian players in the few games they watch of junior hockey (WJC). That's not something I blame them for, just an observation.

If we had picked Pettersson over Mittelstadt at 7, two years ago, the same outrage would have happened on draft day

 

[Hinterland]

NHLe isn't exact, but it estimates a 0.45 PPG in the SHL (Lias' draft season, 19 P in 42 GP) to a 1.83 PPG season in the OHL.

But if we just compare to other SHL draftees, he scored at a higher PPG in his D season than Kopitar did in his D+1 (0.43).

You can critizise the Lias pick when it was made from some angles, but production is not one of them.

I don't critizise the pick...I'm saying that he never really figured out a pro league until now and that's why it was so stupid of him to run away now. He has nobody but himself to blame and in case he gave it his all he probably just isn't NHL material...not even close.

Also, even if Andersson does figure things out one day, which at this point is highly unlikely, he'll never even come close to Kopitar in terms of overall game. Kopitar is one of the best two way Centers while Andersson couldn't defend to save his dear life.

 

[Mikos87]

Look I've been guilty of not being able to prorate guys into the NHL based on by eye test.

I've hyped up guys that were excellent 4A players but the speed of the AHL game and my eyes weren't able to project a guy into an NHL role.

Last couple of years I've gotten much better at accounting for this.

I didnt have an issue with this at the junior level where structure isn't always there and the tier 1 skaters always stand out.

But I struggled with this at tbe pro level.

I think the people who saw Lias in the SHL and AHL did the same.

Once he disengaged and went full emo (the haircut should have been a telltale sign)... Then he is useful as a pro hockey player.

He's doing himself a favor by quitting om the team. More games of his shitty effort level would kill his value even further.

 

[Inferno]

I really don't care that lias demanded a trade.

I really don't care that he abandoned his team.

What I care about is that we used a top 10 pick on a kid who really never looked like he would be more than a 3rd line player.

I don't blame lias for this situation... Lias' was, IMHO, never a good prospect.... I blame the organization for wasting a high pick on him.

IMHO lias has always looked like at absolute best a decent prospect.

 

[Hinterland]

Look I've been guilty of not being able to prorate guys into the NHL based on by eye test.

I've hyped up guys that were excellent 4A players but the speed of the AHL game and my eyes weren't able to project a guy into an NHL role.

Last couple of years I've gotten much better at accounting for this.

I didnt have an issue with this at the junior level where structure isn't always there and the tier 1 skaters always stand out.

But I struggled with this at tbe pro level.

I think the people who saw Lias in the SHL and AHL did the same.

Once he disengaged and went full emo (the haircut should have been a telltale sign)... Then he is useful as a pro hockey player.

He's doing himself a favor by quitting om the team. More games of his ****ty effort level would kill his value even further.

Hidden irony that I somehow missed? Getting suspended without pay for willingly leaving a team for no reason and staying at home probably eating burgers instead of working out as well as publically demanding a trade isn't gonna kill his value more than playing games? Really

 

[Hinterland]

I really don't care that lias demanded a trade.

I really don't care that he abandoned his team.

What I care about is that we used a top 10 pick on a kid who really never looked like he would be more than a 3rd line player.

I don't blame lias for this situation... Lias' was, IMHO, never a good prospect.... I blame the organization for wasting a high pick on him.

IMHO lias has always looked like at absolute best a decent prospect.

There were better players available they should have picked like Necas, Tippett, Rasmussen or Vilardi but in hindsight that's always easy to say and even those guys probably won't turn into franchise players. The draft just wasn't very deep.

What's more concering is that they didn't find out about him being such a mental wreck, praising his leadership skills instead. If they scouted him as they should have and if they did their job during the interviews they should have found out I guess. Difficult to hide your character for years as a kid. Missing out on information like that is what can lead to zero return on a top10 pick. With todays methods, tools and knowledge this just cannot happen.

 

[Miamipuck]

And as I said when I debated you over in the Lias thread, the competition in the Swedish Junior league is a LONG way away from the NHL and even far away from western hockey league. Also, for those seeking accurate facts, a simple google search revealed that Lias had one amazing year but most of his other years were very average— in a league far below average.

Lias Andersson at eliteprospects.com

Sorry but my dead pet canary knows more about Swedish Junior leagues, I guarantee you never ever saw one game. Congrats you got a player analysis right by accident.

The hey I googled some stats one year worked, Woohoo maybe one day you can be PB. Congratulations you and the other guy you mentioned who is almost never right got one, simply amazing, continue to brag.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

The way people talk about athletes' "character" like it's a 1-99 attribute in a video game always weirds me out tbh. Come on, there haven't been situations you've been great in and situations you've crumbled in?

 

[Hunter Gathers]

NHLe isn't exact, but it estimates a 0.45 PPG in the SHL (Lias' draft season, 19 P in 42 GP) to a 1.83 PPG season in the OHL.

But if we just compare to other SHL draftees, he scored at a higher PPG in his D season than Kopitar did in his D+1 (0.43).

You can critizise the Lias pick when it was made from some angles, but production is not one of them.

Lias's international production for a high pick was mediocre at best. Against his peers, he never stood out. That's not a good sign.

 

[Hinterland]

The way people talk about athletes' "character" like it's a 1-99 attribute in a video game always weirds me out tbh. Come on, there haven't been situations you've been great in and situations you've crumbled in?

Yeah there have been all kinds of situations but that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about a kid who received plenty of opportunities from the Rangers and yet still seems to blame them for not being able to crack a pro league. The way he reacted was very premature and unprofessional, too and it wasn't the first time it happened.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

I think league play is more indicative of what a player can do than a one-off tournament



My point here is that it's ridiculous to value a league based on one player not making it in the NHL

How a player performs against his peers is a vital assessment tool. It was a bad sign followed up by other troubling signs. We all wrote off Traverse because it's Traverse. Yet, you had a high pick who couldn't distinguish himself from UDFAs. If these were single one-off events, you'd have a point. But we had multiple instances of him underperforming and looking average-at-best.

We made so many excuses for Lias whenever these troubling signs came up. I was also guilty of this.

Also, I don't think it's "ridiculous" to place minimal value on a low-tier junior program. We also don't place huge value on BCHL stats for that reason.

 

[eco's bones]

Oh for sure. I'd do the deal again. Just roll the dice a different way and not go safe.

To me it's kind of like Andersson has plateaued for at least the last year though he did look quicker in training camp. Lias might take another step some day or he may stay about where he is. I don't think he's going to be a top 6 though really. He reminds me in a way of Namestnikov--though Vlad is a little better as a skater. The Rangers made more the gamble with Chytil and that paid off a lot better. He does look like he'll be a top 6 player so at least one of them looks like he's be fine.

The one thing I really don't buy is that Lias didn't get a fair shot. To me his ability to cover enough ice was hampered by his average skating and he's better off as a winger than a center. That means winning board battles and fighting your way to the net--and keeping your stick free. I like Filip at center--size, strength, really really good skater, better overall skillset. There are things he needs to work on but he's covering his defensive responsibilities significantly better than last year.

 

[haveandare]

I really don't care that lias demanded a trade.

I really don't care that he abandoned his team.

What I care about is that we used a top 10 pick on a kid who really never looked like he would be more than a 3rd line player.

I don't blame lias for this situation... Lias' was, IMHO, never a good prospect.... I blame the organization for wasting a high pick on him.

IMHO lias has always looked like at absolute best a decent prospect.

Most rankings pre draft had him as a very good prospect, it wasn’t some idea the Rangers pulled out of nowhere.

And everyone in here seems very sure he’s totally done. He’s still a kid. He came into camp looking sharper and more effective. He shouldn’t have stopped caring once he didn’t get the minutes and chances he wanted, but he did do that and it’s still possible he can be something in this league when he cares and finds a place that will give him the chances.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

So is Lias 100% done with NYR?

 

[JHS]

Well, by this logic, the OHL isn't as good as we think because of Yakupov turning into a bust

I think the point is Lias is/was one of the most promising prospects to come from the Swedish league in the past few drafts and you frequently point to the impact of playing in that league has on the development of players. My argueemnt is not comparing leagues( I think but am not sure, that the OHL probably has a better track record) but it is to say that spouting off stats from the Swedish league as somehow a precursor to sucess in the NHL seems like a flawed approach at this point.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So is Lias 100% done with NYR?

Looks like it but stranger things have happened. Drouin played for Tampa after requesting a trade (and before actually being traded). Who knows

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I think the point is Lias is/was one of the most promising prospects to come from the Swedish league in the past few drafts and you frequently point to the impact of playing in that league has on the development of players. My argueemnt is not comparing leagues( I think but am not sure, that the OHL probably has a better track record) but it is to say that spouting off stats from the Swedish league as somehow a precursor to sucess in the NHL seems like a flawed approach at this point.

It's the best indicator you have for junior players though. Just because it didn't work out for this player, doesn't mean it's a flawed approach. It just means it's not a guarantee

 

[JHS]

Hot take central. I rarely use this phrase but "I can't even" applies

Hot take or not, my hunch is it will prove to be an accurate one. A top 10 pick busts from a league that is not exactly pumping out top end talent in the past few drafts will definitely make people take pause drafting from that league.

 

[JHS]

It's the best indicator you have for junior players though. Just because it didn't work out for this player, doesn't mean it's a flawed approach. It just means it's not a guarantee

But you have to be fair and compare relative talent of the players he competing against. In this Swedish league he’s competing against players that are different than over in the Weatern Junior Leagues. I’m not sure how to compare but my hunch is the Western Junior Leagues are far better overall and coupled with the NHL sized rinks, I would more favorably go for players from that league over a Swedish league. Just my opinion though.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

Looks like it but stranger things have happened. Drouin played for Tampa after requesting a trade (and before actually being traded). Who knows

Good. Maybe Lias does some reflecting and shit, apologizes. Who knows. We'll be smarter the 27th I supposed, when the Christmas break is done and we get some new info.

 

[JHS]

Sorry but my dead pet canary knows more about Swedish Junior leagues, I guarantee you never ever saw one game. Congrats you got a player analysis right by accident.

The hey I googled some stats one year worked, Woohoo maybe one day you can be PB. Congratulations you and the other guy you mentioned who is almost never right got one, simply amazing, continue to brag.

A bit harsh here buddy- take a deep breath.

You are absolutely right, I never watched one Swedish Junior league game. I watched him play against actual NHL level competition and saw how he wasn’t able to keep up, could do nothing with the puck when he got it, was a plague to whatever line he was on and was constantly incapable of making a difference in a game.

He’s like bringing a Ford Focus to a NASCAR race and expecting to compete because at least the Ford Focus knows how to turn left.

It was never hard to see this situation playing out very similarly to the way it did.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

But you have to be fair and compare relative talent of the players he competing against. In this Swedish league he’s competing against players that are different than over in the Weatern Junior Leagues. I’m not sure how to compare but my hunch is the Western Junior Leagues are far better overall and coupled with the NHL sized rinks, I would more favorably go for players from that league over a Swedish league. Just my opinion though.

How about Pettersson, Dahlin, Hedman, Karlsson, Forsberg, Kopitar? You can't just use a blanket statement based on one player not panning out

 

[eco's bones]

Look I've been guilty of not being able to prorate guys into the NHL based on by eye test.

I've hyped up guys that were excellent 4A players but the speed of the AHL game and my eyes weren't able to project a guy into an NHL role.

Last couple of years I've gotten much better at accounting for this.

I didnt have an issue with this at the junior level where structure isn't always there and the tier 1 skaters always stand out.

But I struggled with this at tbe pro level.

I think the people who saw Lias in the SHL and AHL did the same.

Once he disengaged and went full emo (the haircut should have been a telltale sign)... Then he is useful as a pro hockey player.

He's doing himself a favor by quitting om the team. More games of his ****ty effort level would kill his value even further.

Really the test in the NHL is whether they're involved enough in the play--whether or not they're always half a step behind on offense---whether they're winning board battles and getting scoring opportunities--whether they're always getting lost on the backcheck. Lias was failing on way too much of this. That's why he ended up in Hartford. That said Howden isn't great at a lot of this either but he's been better than Lias. Nieves IMO is a better player than either in a limited checking role. Chytil started in Hartford--watched a bunch of Sidney Crosby videos and afterwards his defensive play got a lot better. That was one of his worst faults--not nearly as bad now. Filip is also figuring out his size and strength and leaning on people more. His face-offs need work. Young players are works in progress--Lias had stopped progressing. Maybe he just needs a change of scenery.

 

[JHS]

How about Pettersson, Dahlin, Hedman, Karlsson, Forsberg, Kopitar? You can't just use a blanket statement based on one player not panning out

Absolutely- I know the Sweedish league has been a successful league in the past. My comment was more of a forward looking statement. If I was a GM and I looked at a player comparable to Lias( who really only had 1 and a half amazing seasons) coming from the Sweedish League, Id hesitate taking someone like that based on the Lias situation. That’s my only point. That’s why I said it was a “black mark” not the “end of the Sweedish League as a proving ground.”