OT: Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... Part IX

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WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Anybody else loving this season's HBO slightly more than last?

True Detective is heads and shoulders better than Game of Bad Acting
Ballers and the Brink vs VEEP and Silicon Valley is kinda like dumb funny vs smart funny. I love both but the heavy hitting drama top-card makes it a clear win.

The reactionary reviewers who kept hammering HBO for this "weak" array were so off-base.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Never liked Game of Thrones but this season of True Detective feels like it was written by a first year creative writing class.
That's a rather baseless accusation.

The essence of good dialogue is subtext first and prose afterward. The show isn't on-the-nose, it isn't constantly giving out lines like "I, Ray Velcoro, no longer want to be your informant." stuff you'd hear in GoT and definitely in the Marvel movies.

A good example would be when Velcoro is chugging down the Blue Label, Frank Semyon says "You know, you're supposed to sip that" without saying "you drunk, that's an expensive bottle, dick, wtf are you doing!!"

So no, I disagree, I think it's already heads and shoulders beyond most TV. Season 1 set a pretty high standard because of the way it was framed (which if they repeated it would have different but just as loud complaints) but at its core it's a neo-noir. Neo-noirs are hardboiled, pulpy, obvious at times, quietly tragic at other times.

Imagine if people had the same standards for Game of Thrones or (the overrated) House of Cards as they have for this show?
  • why is this new season of HoC not addressing the Columbia Mattress Girl and #blacklivesmatter?
  • Not a fan of the new characters, bring back Ned Stark
  • I really enjoyed the scenery of Pentos, this Mereen stuff pales in comparison

It's nuts.
 

mitchmagic

Registered User
Apr 25, 2006
3,675
1,234
Montreal, Qc
www.typeonefilms.com
That's a rather baseless accusation.

The essence of good dialogue is subtext first and prose afterward. The show isn't on-the-nose, it isn't constantly giving out lines like "I, Ray Velcoro, no longer want to be your informant." stuff you'd hear in GoT and definitely in the Marvel movies.

A good example would be when Velcoro is chugging down the Blue Label, Frank Semyon says "You know, you're supposed to sip that" without saying "you drunk, that's an expensive bottle, dick, wtf are you doing!!"

So no, I disagree, I think it's already heads and shoulders beyond most TV. Season 1 set a pretty high standard because of the way it was framed (which if they repeated it would have different but just as loud complaints) but at its core it's a neo-noir. Neo-noirs are hardboiled, pulpy, obvious at times, quietly tragic at other times.

Imagine if people had the same standards for Game of Thrones or (the overrated) House of Cards as they have for this show?
  • why is this new season of HoC not addressing the Columbia Mattress Girl and #blacklivesmatter?
  • Not a fan of the new characters, bring back Ned Stark
  • I really enjoyed the scenery of Pentos, this Mereen stuff pales in comparison

It's nuts.

One horribly clichéd line poorly delivered by Vince Vaughn is your argument for good writing? The characters are all tropes from every detective in film noir.

They're trying to create a destroyed character and failing horribly at it. We're 1/4 of the way through this season and there has been barely any plot or character development.

"Rat goo."
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
One horribly clichéd line poorly delivered by Vince Vaughn is your argument for good writing? The characters are all tropes from every detective in film noir.

They're trying to create a destroyed character and failing horribly at it. We're 1/4 of the way through this season and there has been barely any plot or character development.

"Rat goo."
You're clearly biased here if you're going to drop in words like "failing horribly". I dropped Homeland the second it dawned on me how awful the show is, I dropped Suits and many other shows. I wish I had dropped LOST but I was too young to care about my time.

Drop the show and stop whining about it; it's a neo-noir, it's going to have tropes, it's going to have cliches, that's how it worked in s1 and how it'll work in s2.

Is it not entertaining? Is it not at least as watchable as NCIS?
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
79,726
51,629
Anybody else loving this season's HBO slightly more than last?

True Detective is heads and shoulders better than Game of Bad Acting
Ballers and the Brink vs VEEP and Silicon Valley is kinda like dumb funny vs smart funny. I love both but the heavy hitting drama top-card makes it a clear win.

The reactionary reviewers who kept hammering HBO for this "weak" array were so off-base.
Sorry, but I gotta disagree. The 2nd episode was better than the first but it still seems like they're trying too hard. I really want to like the show but so far it's been pretty run of the mill cliche stuff in my opinion.
 

WhiskeySeven*

Expect the expected
Jun 17, 2007
25,154
770
Sorry, but I gotta disagree. The 2nd episode was better than the first but it still seems like they're trying too hard. I really want to like the show but so far it's been pretty run of the mill cliche stuff in my opinion.
That's the thing, if it doesn't tickle your fancy - don't bother.

I like the cliche stuff, the long shots of #industry, the scenery chewing, the awkward and creepy characters, the #DarknessOfMan. I don't live in that world, it's a fantasy world where everything is dark and I love living there for 58 minutes a week.

The doctor who they consulted last week, played by a leathery faced Rick Springfield, was so god damn creepy. But the critics won't mention him. They'll bring up Frank Semyon's terse story at the beginning as cliched.

Drunk alcoholic dad mistakenly locking his son in a basement is cliched? Fine. What about the scene where Frank Semyon vaguely-but-not-that-vaguely threatens the other bookie in his district? Fantastic. Juicy. Fun.

I dropped Boardwalk Empire when it stopped making sense for me, I highly recommend it for people who dislike the shows they're hate-watching.

edit: but answer me this, what does "trying too hard" mean? I think you're saying that the show is a bit hard-boiled... but it's supposed to be like that, wouldn't you say? And I've never seen a show investigate southern California's rustbelt economy. It's massive, it's intensely corrupt and it's never been seen before.
 

Habsawce

Registered User
Nov 16, 2010
31,307
2,617
Canada
Anybody else loving this season's HBO slightly more than last?

True Detective is heads and shoulders better than Game of Bad Acting
Ballers and the Brink vs VEEP and Silicon Valley is kinda like dumb funny vs smart funny. I love both but the heavy hitting drama top-card makes it a clear win.

The reactionary reviewers who kept hammering HBO for this "weak" array were so off-base.

I'm digging Silicon Valley. Never watched it before and just binge watched both seasons in like 4 days. Love the banter between the bunch, especially Gilfoyle!
 

Habsawce

Registered User
Nov 16, 2010
31,307
2,617
Canada
I loved the scene where Danesh (spl?) believed that Gillfoyle's gf wanted to **** him and he approached her about it. When a scene can be that awkward and make you laugh, it's magical.

Also, the SWOT scene where that Blaine guy see's their board :biglaugh:
 

Redux91

I do Three bullets.
Sep 5, 2006
47,525
44,334
Kirkland, Montreal
Yea but then they'll turn around and say:"you know what, that brilliant guy who just made that ultra violent Superman vs Batman film we just did that made a ton of money? We'll use that guy again". :D

whats the beef with Zack Snyder?? only movie he ever made that sucked was sucker punch.
 

DAChampion

Registered User
May 28, 2011
30,222
21,698
Last night, I browsed Australian Netflix, and I converged upon the following options:

- Turn off my brain and watch Brett Ratner's Hercules starring Dwayne Johnson;
- Challenge myself and invest in Sense8;
- Challenge myself and invest in House of Cards, at the risk of losing the next two weeks of my life to an incoming addiction;

I started off with Hercules but shut it off after a few minutes because the introductory voiceover pissed me off. I switched to Sense8. It is a collaboration between the great J. Michael Straczynsky and the formerly-great Wachowski siblings. The first episode made little sense to me at all, because this is a tremendously original plot with a large number of characters, but by the end of the second episode I was getting it and was more invested.

It continues a theme that JMS built-up in Babylon 5. JMS understands a trivial point that most other writers of science fiction and fantasy seem completely oblivious too: if telepathy was a real thing, it wouldn't be a minor change to the human condition, it would change everything. The whole social order would be overturned. Scifi writers who create worlds like our own where telepathy exists are bad writers. Sense8 is not such a world; the telepaths are being aggressively hunted by the state, which prevents them from building a community.

It also has something we rarely see on TV, gay characters, black characters, transsexual characters, people who are not super good looking ... there's even an middle eastern person on the show.

That's a rather baseless accusation.

The essence of good dialogue is subtext first and prose afterward. The show isn't on-the-nose, it isn't constantly giving out lines like "I, Ray Velcoro, no longer want to be your informant." stuff you'd hear in GoT and definitely in the Marvel movies.

A good example would be when Velcoro is chugging down the Blue Label, Frank Semyon says "You know, you're supposed to sip that" without saying "you drunk, that's an expensive bottle, dick, wtf are you doing!!"

So no, I disagree, I think it's already heads and shoulders beyond most TV. Season 1 set a pretty high standard because of the way it was framed (which if they repeated it would have different but just as loud complaints) but at its core it's a neo-noir. Neo-noirs are hardboiled, pulpy, obvious at times, quietly tragic at other times.

Imagine if people had the same standards for Game of Thrones or (the overrated) House of Cards as they have for this show?
  • why is this new season of HoC not addressing the Columbia Mattress Girl and #blacklivesmatter?
  • Not a fan of the new characters, bring back Ned Stark
  • I really enjoyed the scenery of Pentos, this Mereen stuff pales in comparison

It's nuts.
There was a good comment about this on BirthMoviesDeath.

The internet spent the better part of last year complaining that True Detective has white male leads, and is as such a mediocre show and Nic Pizzolatto is a bad person for not writing more women. Now, in season 2, we have a woman with sexual hang-ups, a gay man with sexual hang ups, and people are going to complain about that.

Here's a good write-up on Episode 2x02:
http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/06/29/true-detective-recap-night-finds-you

whats the beef with Zack Snyder?? only movie he ever made that sucked was sucker punch.
Zack Snyder was once decently regarded because of the competent Dawn of the Dead remake and the entertaining and nearly intelligent 300. He once made a list of the 50 smartest people in Hollywood.

His reputation began to suffer with Watchmen. The internet geeks absolutely loathe Watchmen. It's considered to be worse than the comic book, and people are angry that he got rid of the giant squid. There's been a lot of trash piling on him and it's making him into a punchline.

Sucker Punch is a failed piece of auteur cinema, but it's not nearly as bad as people make it out to be. I appreciate that he created something new even though it sucks, because I respect innovation, and there are individual pieces that work well like when the girls beat up the German zombies, I liked that. The internet regards Sucker Punch as one of the worst movies ever made, which I think is exaggerated. I can name many worse movies and I don't watch that many. I think it's merely a below-average movie.

The Snyder hate reached its apex with Man of Steel. It's a flawed movie but in ways that are largely distinct and complementary to how the Marvel movies are bad. There's a huge amount of destruction and a lot of people die in the movie... due to Snyder's amazing technical skills, he really successfully conveyed death and catastrophe. The problem is that it's not something people want to see, the fans wanted to see absolute comprehensive victory. Further, the destruction is not addressed in the movie, I don't think he realized it needed to be addressed, but on the bright side, he has unintentionally set up a fantastic sequel for himself, one in which the world turns on Superman due to the destruction in the first movie.

Man of Steel was not his script, Christopher Nolan hired him. Snyder's one known change was to have Superman kill the villain at the end, which really angered a lot of people because they believe that Superman should be perfect and never kill. It's been argued extensively that this is a violation of the character. Snyder's idea was to have Superman be overwhelmed and forced to kill, and in subsequent movies he would regret it and it would form the basis of the no-kill rule.

Snyder does very well with visuals, he understands that the frame and how scenes are shot is important, he has a few consistent themes such as the tragic nature of heroism and as such eh's willing to challenge his characters, he respects source material which at the time of Watchmen was relatively revolutionary, but unfortunately he is lacking in several areas. He doesn't seem to notice cringe-worthy dialogue, and he doesn't get how scenes flow together. Whereas Snyder would possibly be a top-5 director in the world if movies were 3 minutes long, he drops out of the top-50 for 2 hour movies, since his stories lack connective tissue between scenes. It's as if he just wants to skip to the "good part", and doesn't understand that the good part is typically only good because of how it's been built up to. Nobody would remember the chest-burster scene from Alien if the entire movie had not led up to it. Snyder either doesn't get or forgets that the build-up is more fundamental than the climax, or maybe he tries to be as stingy as possible on the build-up because he wants to get to the climax and he's so overwhelmed by the excitement of making an awesome scene.
 
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Andy

Registered User
Jun 26, 2008
32,349
17,442
Montreal
He doesn't seem to notice cringe-worthy dialogue, and he doesn't get how scenes flow together.

That was my biggest problem with Man Of Steel, right here, especially the flow. It was so choppy and unexpected. The whole Superman surrenders, enters interrogation room and then is found outside in the desert is most emblematic of what you just said, regarding dialogue and scene flow.


The only movie I've enjoyed from Snyder is Watchmen. Oddly enough, it follows the source material visually and plot and dialogue wise very closely. 300 was beautiful stylistically, but I didn't enjoy it beyond that.

He's got a great eye for style and visuals, that's for sure.
 

Lafleurs Guy

Guuuuuuuy!
Jul 20, 2007
79,726
51,629
That's the thing, if it doesn't tickle your fancy - don't bother.

I like the cliche stuff, the long shots of #industry, the scenery chewing, the awkward and creepy characters, the #DarknessOfMan. I don't live in that world, it's a fantasy world where everything is dark and I love living there for 58 minutes a week.

The doctor who they consulted last week, played by a leathery faced Rick Springfield, was so god damn creepy. But the critics won't mention him. They'll bring up Frank Semyon's terse story at the beginning as cliched.

Drunk alcoholic dad mistakenly locking his son in a basement is cliched? Fine. What about the scene where Frank Semyon vaguely-but-not-that-vaguely threatens the other bookie in his district? Fantastic. Juicy. Fun.

I dropped Boardwalk Empire when it stopped making sense for me, I highly recommend it for people who dislike the shows they're hate-watching.

edit: but answer me this, what does "trying too hard" mean? I think you're saying that the show is a bit hard-boiled... but it's supposed to be like that, wouldn't you say? And I've never seen a show investigate southern California's rustbelt economy. It's massive, it's intensely corrupt and it's never been seen before.
It just comes off as a little contrived this year. I'm okay with dark mood, dark environment... that's fine. It's just when you're hammered over the head with it relentlessly then it kind of becomes a parody of itself.

I felt the same way about Friends. People loved that show... to me it was so forced. Everything about it was forced and contrived. That's how I feel about this show only instead of Chandler not having the confidence to ask Monica for a date we get the broken dad fighting for his family and the ex criminal trying to live a straight life... I don't know, it's just too much.

We'll see where this story goes though the 2nd better was much better than the first.
 

SquiddFX

#Seanski
Dec 16, 2013
7,874
3,041
Montreal
"These aren't the doors of a billionaire Richard!"

Silicon Valley is one of my favorites. Gilfoyle and Dinesh are hilarious together.
 

OneSharpMarble

Registered User
Oct 30, 2007
10,901
970
Calgary
His reputation began to suffer with Watchmen. The internet geeks absolutely loathe Watchmen. It's considered to be worse than the comic book, and people are angry that he got rid of the giant squid. There's been a lot of trash piling on him and it's making him into a punchline.

Who out there would ever give 2 ****s about what internet nerds think? These are the same people who vote up **** like the goonies and marvel movies on rotten tomatoes. They are angry that he didn't include a giant psychic squid exploding at the end of the watchmen? These are people who should be ignored entirely.

The Watchmen was one of the best superhero movies ever made.
 

LyricalLyricist

Registered User
Aug 21, 2007
37,928
5,837
Montreal
I just watched Chappie. I had modest expectations but the movie really surprised me.

It's ranked 7/10 on imdb and I figure it's because a lot of characters are corny as hell but if you manage to ignore that it's a pretty good movie.
 
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