Salary Cap: Lets put Salary structure expenditures to the test.

[justashadowof]

Something fishy about the data on that site. Arizona is listed as having -$11 million in cap space. I took a look and they have Christian Fischer listed as having an $874,125 base salary, but a $10,000,000 cap hit. The base salary is correct, but his cap hit is $1,000,000 on cap friendly.

Christian Fischer
Christian Fischer - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

View attachment 373890

There's nothing fishy. Fischer is making $874,125 in 2020-21 and $1,125,875 in 2021-22.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Something fishy about the data on that site. Arizona is listed as having -$11 million in cap space. I took a look and they have Christian Fischer listed as having an $874,125 base salary, but a $10,000,000 cap hit. The base salary is correct, but his cap hit is $1,000,000 on cap friendly.

Christian Fischer
Christian Fischer - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

View attachment 373890

Looks like 1 million to me, not 10 million.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
21	$81,500,000	$81,434,366	$0	$0	$65,634

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Marner, Mitchell $10,893,000 RW UFA - 5
Mikheyev, Ilya $1,645,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Vesey, Jimmy $900,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Kerfoot, Alexander $3,500,000 C, LW UFA - 3	Simmonds, Wayne $1,500,000 RW, LW NTC UFA - 1
Barabanov, Alexander $925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1	Thornton, Joe $700,000 C NMC UFA - 1	Spezza, Jason $700,000 C, RW UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 LD NMC UFA - 4	Brodie, TJ $5,000,000 RD NMC UFA - 4	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 2	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Lehtonen, Mikko $925,000 LD UFA - 1	Bogosian, Zach $1,000,000 RD NTC UFA - 1
Dermott, Travis $1,250,000 LD RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[Golden_Jet]

ROSTER SIZE	SALARY CAP	CAP HIT	OVERAGES	BONUSES	CAP SPACE
21	$81,500,000	$81,434,366	$0	$0	$65,634

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Delete Signed Player

Buyout

Add to Trade

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Roster

Left Wing	Centre	Right Wing
Hyman, Zach $2,250,000 LW, RW M-NTC UFA - 1	Matthews, Auston $11,634,000 C UFA - 4	Marner, Mitchell $10,893,000 RW UFA - 5
Mikheyev, Ilya $1,645,000 LW, RW UFA - 2	Tavares, John $11,000,000 C NMC UFA - 5	Nylander, William $6,962,366 RW, LW UFA - 4
Vesey, Jimmy $900,000 LW, RW UFA - 1	Kerfoot, Alexander $3,500,000 C, LW UFA - 3	Simmonds, Wayne $1,500,000 RW, LW NTC UFA - 1
Barabanov, Alexander $925,000 RW, LW UFA - 1	Thornton, Joe $700,000 C NMC UFA - 1	Spezza, Jason $700,000 C, RW UFA - 1

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Left Defense	Right Defense	Goaltender
Muzzin, Jake $5,625,000 LD NMC UFA - 4	Brodie, TJ $5,000,000 RD NMC UFA - 4	Andersen, Frederik $5,000,000 G M-NTC UFA - 1
Rielly, Morgan $5,000,000 LD M-NTC UFA - 2	Holl, Justin $2,000,000 RD M-NTC UFA - 3	Campbell, Jack $1,650,000 G UFA - 2
Lehtonen, Mikko $925,000 LD UFA - 1	Bogosian, Zach $1,000,000 RD NTC UFA - 1
Dermott, Travis $1,250,000 LD RFA

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

What about Phil Kessel.

 

[egd27]

I don't understand how the linked site shows the Leafs can have these four high salaries and compete. It doesn't provide enough detail to really show anything but the each teams current cap situation.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I don't understand how the linked site shows the Leafs can have these four high salaries and compete. It doesn't provide enough detail to really show anything but the each teams current cap situation.

It shows much more than that for me. The top 4 scored more than 50% of the goals at just a touch under 50% of the cap. The calling for trading Nylander made no sense if you compare him to Kapanen and Johnsson and Kerfoot because he scored one more goal than the 3 combined @ a cap saving of $3,000,00 plus by keeping him.

The site shows the distribution of cap dollars spent on forwards,defense and Goalies for comparison for all teams. There are many teams in the range the Leafs are for expenditures on offense.
The defense shows three very solid middle class salary earners now in Brodie added to Rielly and Muzzy. The redistribution of cap from offense to defense was done by finding some bargains in Simmonds,Spezza,Thornton,Vesey,boyd,Anderson,Barabanov etc.
We have 2 top line centers. We have 2 top line right wingers one is also a high quality scorer league wide and one is a high quality playmaker league wide. The sum of their parts scores over fifty percent of our goals. Is not physical, is highly skilled.

Our goaltending is very good quality for the money also when compared to the league. We come up high on offense spending,middle of the pack on Defense and Middle pack goaltending.
The depth players are a mixed bag of needs that were missing in terms of the style they play tipping the scale more towards physical and defensive with leadership qualities. The outgoing were not leaders,soft and tipped the scale to much to the offensive style to what we knew as top 9.

The team is now a more balanced top 6,bottom 6.

The team balance has changed to a construction that will play better in the trenches. The grit is there in the depth now more than ever in the past 4 years.
Thats on the the compete side. The charts show our spending is more balanced now with better quality players that will fill the specific roles that were needed.
I don’t know how 4 players providing Over 50% of the offense can be viewed as anything but money well spent.

I’ll say again,Nylander scored more goals than all three of the third line that received over $10,000,000. Kerfoot is still around but could be moved and replaced by a more physical cheaper defensive center quite easily if a team needs a decent skilled third line center. I’m not saying Kerfoot is bad,just saying we could go a different style of player there at 3 center

There is still room to manoeuvre after the Expansion draft,lots of players waiver exempt and not a bad contract on the team.
I love the Bogosian signing and there are hundreds on here that despised him last season as a signing. I was not one of them but he and Muzzin paired together when ever Keefe wants is a nasty piece of heavy defense. Keefe never had that option and in fairness to Babcock, he never had it either.

 

[egd27]

Some examples of what the approx 50% forward expenditure must compete against.

Toronto
Auston Matthews
John Tavares
Mitchell Marner
William Nylander

Tampa
Nikita Kucherov
Steven Stamkos
Brayden Point
Ondrej Palat
Yanni Gourde
Tyler Johnson

Vegas
Mark Stone
Max Pacioretty
William Karlsson
Jonathan Marchessault
Reilly Smith
Alex Tuch
Chandler Stephenson
Ryan Reaves

Colorado
Mikko Rantanen
Nathan MacKinnon
Brandon Saad
Gabriel Landeskog
Andre Burakovsky
Nazem Kadri

Boston
David Krejci
Patrice Bergeron
David Pastrnak
Brad Marchand
Charlie Coyle
Craig Smith
Ondrej Kase

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Some examples of what the approx 50% forward expenditure must compete against.

Toronto
Auston Matthews
John Tavares. = 120 goals( over 50% of teams total)
Mitchell Marner
William Nylander

Tampa
Nikita Kucherov
Steven Stamkos
Brayden Point. =118 goals less than 50% of their scoring
Ondrej Palat
Yanni Gourde
Tyler Johnson = this guy they are trying to get rid of

Vegas
Mark Stone
Max Pacioretty
William Karlsson
Jonathan Marchessault. = 141 goals but almost half the team.5 goals more per extra player.
Reilly Smith
Alex Tuch
Chandler Stephenson
Ryan Reaves

Colorado
Mikko Rantanen
Nathan MacKinnon
Brandon Saad
Gabriel Landeskog
Andre Burakovsky
Nazem Kadri

Boston
David Krejci
Patrice Bergeron
David Pastrnak
Brad Marchand
Charlie Coyle
Craig Smith
Ondrej Kase

So thats just random as could be right. Just picking the top 4 and adding up the goals might give a different show. What teams are over 50% since i see approximately in your post. Our guys score like wizards and listing 8 players or 67% of a forward group to compare to 33% of a forward that outscores the bulk list doesn’t say much.

 

[egd27]

So thats just random as could be right

Of course it's not random, it's some of the top teams in the league that the Leafs need to compete against. Isn't that the premise of the discussion?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Some examples of what the approx 50% forward expenditure must compete against.

Toronto
Auston Matthews
John Tavares
Mitchell Marner
William Nylander

Tampa
Nikita Kucherov
Steven Stamkos
Brayden Point
Ondrej Palat
Yanni Gourde
Tyler Johnson

Vegas
Mark Stone
Max Pacioretty
William Karlsson
Jonathan Marchessault
Reilly Smith
Alex Tuch
Chandler Stephenson
Ryan Reaves

Colorado
Mikko Rantanen
Nathan MacKinnon
Brandon Saad
Gabriel Landeskog
Andre Burakovsky
Nazem Kadri

Boston
David Krejci
Patrice Bergeron
David Pastrnak
Brad Marchand
Charlie Coyle
Craig Smith
Ondrej Kase

Why did you only add 4 forwards for us when you added guys like Kase/Burakovsky/Johnson/Tuch when guys like Kerfoot/Mikheyev were just as productive/more productive than a lot of these guys listed.

 

[hotpaws]

Of course it's not random, it's some of the top teams in the league that the Leafs need to compete against. Isn't that the premise of the discussion?

the premise is to defend the Leafs using half there cap on 4 forwards

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Of course it's not random, it's some of the top teams in the league that the Leafs need to compete against. Isn't that the premise of the discussion?

Yep it is.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

the premise to defend the Leafs using half there cap on 4 forwards

Put up 4 top players that out score their 120 goals and we are on premise. I don’t think thete is a group of four that beat them. ( maybe) haven’t checked myself?

 

[hotpaws]

Put up 4 top players that out score their 120 goals and we are on premise.

which is much more important than winning the cup

 

[Field of Dreams]

Why did you only add 4 forwards for us when you added guys like Kase/Burakovsky/Johnson/Tuch when guys like Kerfoot/Mikheyev were just as productive/more productive than a lot of these guys listed.

I think its comparing what other teams have signed for the amount we are paying the big 4 forwards

 

[egd27]

Why did you only add 4 forwards for us when you added guys like Kase/Burakovsky/Johnson/Tuch when guys like Kerfoot/Mikheyev were just as productive/more productive than a lot of these guys listed.

Because the point was to show what forward other teams have using 50% of the cap

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I think its comparing what other teams have signed for the amount we are paying the big 4 forwards

Hmm possibly but I thought he was talking about all the teams that spend close to 50% of the cap on their forwards. In that sense the bottom of our lineup should still be more productive than most teams and our offense overall will probably be 1/2 with Tampa.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Why did you only add 4 forwards for us when you added guys like Kase/Burakovsky/Johnson/Tuch when guys like Kerfoot/Mikheyev were just as productive/more productive than a lot of these guys listed.

You are supposed to ignore that 4 players provide half our offense. Only a couple teams have that. None are as young. It’s because he is showing the amount of players taking up half the cap space.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Because the point was to show what forward other teams have using 50% of the cap

Maybe you should list the amount of players teams need to get over half their goal scoring also. We had the third most goals and Four players scored over half them.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Because the point was to show what forward other teams have using 50% of the cap

Okay but we spend just over 50% of the cap on our entire forward group (about 54%). So we pay to have the most expensive offense for a group that will likely finish 1st or 2nd in the league if healthy. you pay for what you get.

If we get a middle of the pack defense and middle of the pack goaltending (also what we pay for) then this should be a top 10 team.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

which is much more important than winning the cup

No no, never said a word about the cup. The top 4 haven’t tied management’s hands in re grouping the roster. It actually got better to this point. No negative effect because of 4 high salaries everyone complains about with zero context but it is readily accepted without question. I question it because i say the roster got betterment and kept all the core and improved it actually. Are you of the thinking this regroup is a worse team? If you do think its worse we shouldn’t even discuss this further. I say it’s definitely improved

 

[Golden_Jet]

Put up 4 top players that out score their 120 goals and we are on premise.

But then the cap is not 50%, for those teams, it would be less.

 

[egd27]

Put up 4 top players that out score their 120 goals and we are on premise.

No, not just 4 players.......the number of forwards that represent 50% of the cap.

Using my previous list, goals by forwards representing 50% of the cap

Toronto 120
Tampa 128
Vegas 141
Colorado 135
Boston 161

 

[egd27]

Maybe you should list the amount of players teams need to get over half their goal scoring also. We had the third most goals and Four players scored over half them.

Why is that relevant?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

But then the cap is not 50%, for those teams, it would be less.

Yes. Our four still have a full 4 years of cap stability and five with Tavares and Marner.Simply Hyman‘s goals added to make 5 and $2.25 Equaled a list of 8 from Vegas ha. The Four are actually less than 50% of the cap too by the way. He approximated and might even be over on them.