Salary Cap: Lets put Salary structure expenditures to the test.

[Wafflewhipper]

The leafs can have these four high salaries and compete. This link will show why when you compare to other teams expenditures balance. Compare rosters towards defense and Forwards here. NHL 2020 Cap Tracker
We are 1 of only 4 teams showing a full 23 players in the chart.

Click to read more...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Our forwards expenditures are equal to the most competitive teams expenditures. Defense spending is mid pack. Those who say we can’t have four high contracts don’t have numbers to back that opinion when context is introduced. Read over the cap hits in the link in the initial thread. We are fairly balanced now going forward.

 

[qqaz]

People joked that the Leafs will have to have a bottom 6 all at million or under. But the reality is that we will probably have only 3 forwards making a million or less (Vesey, Spezza, Thornton) on the opening night roster. And you could argue some are worth far more.

Meanwhile, plenty of other teams have that many mill-or-under guys.

 

[A1LeafNation]

I only see 3 high salaries on the Leafs, who am I missing?

 

[A1LeafNation]

Our forwards expenditures are equal to the most competitive teams expenditures. Defense spending is mid pack. Those who say we can’t have four high contracts don’t have numbers to back that opinion when context is introduced. Read over the cap hits in the link in the initial thread. We are fairly balanced now going forward.

Unloading Kapanen and Johnsson helped allocated funds to the defence.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

People joked that the Leafs will have to have a bottom 6 all at million or under. But the reality is that we will probably have only 3 forwards making a million or less (Vesey, Spezza, Thornton) on the opening night roster. And you could argue some are worth far more.

Meanwhile, plenty of other teams have that many mill-or-under guys.

I counted Nylander because everyone else does. I hear you.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Unloading Kapanen and Johnsson helped allocated funds to the defence.

Kerfoot can go too i think. We can get better suited for our needs players much cheaper.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I just wanted these charts of all tears cap structure in a thread for some kind of context. The general complaints and reason based on nothing but opinion was getting pretty tiring to read. We can obviously see management work this out after a failed experience of top 9 offense.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I only see 3 high salaries on the Leafs, who am I missing?

Willy gets counted in all or most posts so i included his. You’re right it isn’t high

 

[Mess]

How are we equating salary cap compliancy to Cup competitiveness?

Getting 23 players signed and under a cap ceiling to begin a season, and where that team will end up in the standings or how it performs in the playoffs is still TBD as of now. These are mutually exclusive events Cap management vs Team performance that don't necessarily equate to guaranteed on ice success because of the successful completion of the first.

The results of the team not the salary cap management prior to, will prove or disprove the theory of you can find success with 1/2 your cap spent only 4 forwards.

Leafs brought in Barrie, Kerfoot, Spezza, Ceci, and later Clifford & Campbell etc and were also cap complaint throughout the year but still with the top 4 eating up the very same CH% combined of a $81.5 mil hard ceiling and we all saw how disappointing this year played out finishing ending well below expectations.

The only thing that has changed from last year to this year to this point in time is you have swapped depth players and tinkered around the edges replacing Barrie, Ceci, Kapanen, Johnsson, Clifford etc with Thornton, Vesey, Brodie, Bogosian and Simmonds. The hope is that the changes will have a positive impact and lead to success and not failure but there is no concrete hard evidence today that it will.

So repeating the question, how are we proving four high salaries and compete successful compete level before they have even played a game?

If the Leafs lose in round #1 again does that prove you can win with 4 players eating up 1/2 your cap? I'd say that end result would disprove this theory and changes likely coming aft 2 unsuccessful attempts. IMO

 

[Wafflewhipper]

How are we equating salary cap compliancy to Cup competitiveness?

Getting 23 players signed and under a cap ceiling to begin a season, and where that team will end up in the standings or how it performs in the playoffs is still TBD as of now. These are mutually exclusive events Cap management vs Team performance that don't necessarily equate to guaranteed on ice success because of the successful completion of the first.

The results of the team not the salary cap management prior to, will prove or disprove the theory of you can find success with 1/2 your cap spent only 4 forwards.

Leafs brought in Barrie, Kerfoot, Spezza, Ceci, and later Clifford & Campbell etc and were also cap complaint throughout the year but still with the top 4 eating up the very same CH% combined of a $81.5 mil hard ceiling and we all saw how disappointing this year played out finishing ending well below expectations.

The only thing that has changed from last year to this year to this point in time is you have swapped depth players and tinkered around the edges replacing Barrie, Ceci, Kapanen, Johnsson, Clifford etc with Thornton, Vesey, Brodie, Bogosian and Simmonds. The hope is that the changes will have a positive impact and lead to success and not failure but there is no concrete hard evidence today that it will.

So repeating the question, how are we proving successful compete level before they have even played a game?

If the Leafs lose in round #1 again does that prove you can win with 4 players eating up 1/2 your cap? I'd say that end result would disprove this theory and changes likely coming aft 2 unsuccessful attempts. IMO

I put the numbers of teams in for teams for everyone to peak at basically. How that shakes out is never known. You can guess but I won’t.
I just want everyone to form opinions on the numbers and quality of players for themselves. Which will be different right

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think we stack up much better with a scoring third line replaced by a top 6 bottom 6 structure. Bottom six makes teams pay a price physically and maybe scores a bit less but also gives up less. They produce lots of bruises and aches for teams as opposed to scoring a bit more. That shakes out better

 

[qqaz]

I think we stack up much better with a scoring third line replaced by a top 6 bottom 6 structure. Bottom six makes teams pay a price physically and maybe scores a bit less but also gives up less. They produce lots of bruises and aches for teams as opposed to scoring a bit more. That shakes out better

I agree completely. But I wouldn't have a year ago. I had high hopes for all of Johnsson, Kerf, and Kapanen. But they never really contributed all that much. Far less than the sum of their parts.

Looking forward to seeing a revamped 3rd and 4th lines.

 

[Advanced stats]

Much rather have an expensive top 6 than an expensive bottom 6. Some teams haven't figured that out yet.

 

[Stephen]

I counted Nylander because everyone else does. I hear you.

Nylander's contract negotiation was the most contentious but once you look beyond the David Pastrnak straw man he actually pulls in an upper middle class NHL salary compared to the other Big 3.

 

[Stephen]

I wouldn't say this salary structure is perfect but one benefit to it is we don't have the spare dollars to frivolously overpay a guy like Jay Beagle or a Josh Anderson, and by and large at least we get the offensive production out of the Big 3.5.

 

[Nineteen67]

They should at least get into the playoffs. Then the questions about how the roster is built will be answered.
They are banking on Rielly and Muzzin to be their 1A 1B Dmen in the playoffs and one of those two will be on the ice most of the game. Is that good enough to be a legit contender?
Are the forwards built to be able to play the dump and chase game that inevitably will happen in the later rounds of the playoffs when they can’t carry it in? Hyman and Matthews can, don’t know about the rest.

 

[Hclass47]

I think we stack up much better with a scoring third line replaced by a top 6 bottom 6 structure. Bottom six makes teams pay a price physically and maybe scores a bit less but also gives up less. They produce lots of bruises and aches for teams as opposed to scoring a bit more. That shakes out better

The physicality of this bottom 6 is questionable at best. Simmons is the only one that fits the bill. The rest are bounty soft

 

[Wafflewhipper]

The physicality of this bottom 6 is questionable at best. Simmons is the only one that fits the bill. The rest are bounty soft

It’s “Simmonds” jeezuz don’t spell it Simmons. Steve Simmons reminder never good

 

[Mess]

I put the numbers of teams in for teams for everyone to peak at basically. How that shakes out is never known. You can guess but I won’t.
I just want everyone to form opinions on the numbers and quality of players for themselves. Which will be different right

That is my point that the cap and competitiveness are not judged based on cap management alone.

Unless I'm missing your intended point here but didn't Leafs last season play-in qualifying loss to underdog CBJ already disprove your theory that you can have 4 forwards use up 1/2 you cap and still be successful and competitive? The Leafs couldn't even beat a low scoring team ranked below them in the standings to even get into the playoff round of 16 last year.

In that series our Leafs core 4 recorded 0-0-0 points in game #1 in a shutout loss. They also recorded 0-0-0 points combined in series clinching game #5 in another shutout loss despite playing all 3 $11 mil players on a line together for 25 minutes. That same core 4 produce 0-0-0 points for 57 minutes until the hail marry last 3 minutes with the goalie out.

The only thing that has changed from last years core 4 and same CH% usage of the same upper limit of $81.5 mil is that they dealt Kapanen and AJ for futures to recapture cap space and let Barrie, Ceci and Clifford walk and replaced them with 3 non playoff team players they let walk in Thornton, Vesey and Simmonds are brought in Brodie and Bogosian for the same cap space the 5 departing players occupied.

So not sure how swapping a few support players around the edges is going to change Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander from getting shutout game after game and disprove you can be cup competitive with such a high cap investment in those forwards. I hope nobody is expecting the new players to carry the team and compensate for the play of the core 4.

Before 23 players and cap compliant and After 23 players and cap complaint. By the time the season starts all 31 teams will have full rosters and and be cap complaint so getting there first as of today doesn't have any added bonus to guarantee anything either.

 

[Golden_Jet]

People joked that the Leafs will have to have a bottom 6 all at million or under. But the reality is that we will probably have only 3 forwards making a million or less (Vesey, Spezza, Thornton) on the opening night roster. And you could argue some are worth far more.

Meanwhile, plenty of other teams have that many mill-or-under guys.

Vesey,Spezza,Thornton, Boyd, and Robertson
5 out 6 bottom six under a million.

 

[qqaz]

Vesey,Spezza,Thornton, Boyd, and Robertson
5 out 6 bottom six under a million.

But they won't all play at the same time. I said "on the opening night roster". It looks like Robertson might be kept down another year, and we might not afford a 13th forward like Boyd.

If all those guys are in the bottom 6, then where did Kerfoot and Simmonds and Engvall go?

 

[markh100]

Something fishy about the data on that site. Arizona is listed as having -$11 million in cap space. I took a look and they have Christian Fischer listed as having an $874,125 base salary, but a $10,000,000 cap hit. The base salary is correct, but his cap hit is $1,000,000 on cap friendly.

Christian Fischer
Christian Fischer - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Wafflewhipper]

That is my point that the cap and competitiveness are not judged based on cap management alone.

Unless I'm missing your intended point here but didn't Leafs last season play-in qualifying loss to underdog CBJ already disprove your theory that you can have 4 forwards use up 1/2 you cap and still be successful and competitive? The Leafs couldn't even beat a low scoring team ranked below them in the standings to even get into the playoff round of 16 last year.

In that series our Leafs core 4 recorded 0-0-0 points in game #1 in a shutout loss. They also recorded 0-0-0 points combined in series clinching game #5 in another shutout loss despite playing all 3 $11 mil players on a line together for 25 minutes. That same core 4 produce 0-0-0 points for 57 minutes until the hail marry last 3 minutes with the goalie out.

The only thing that has changed from last years core 4 and same CH% usage of the same upper limit of $81.5 mil is that they dealt Kapanen and AJ for futures to recapture cap space and let Barrie, Ceci and Clifford walk and replaced them with 3 non playoff team players they let walk in Thornton, Vesey and Simmonds are brought in Brodie and Bogosian for the same cap space the 5 departing players occupied.

So not sure how swapping a few support players around the edges is going to change Matthews, Tavares, Marner and Nylander from getting shutout game after game and disprove you can be cup competitive with such a high cap investment in those forwards. I hope nobody is expecting the new players to carry the team and compensate for the play of the core 4.

Before 23 players and cap compliant and After 23 players and cap complaint. By the time the season starts all 31 teams will have full rosters and and be cap complaint so getting there first as of today doesn't have any added bonus to guarantee anything either.

The point is nothing. Judge for yourself. The roster is pretty much loaded with learned needs. The bottom 6 was useless to me. They had more effect on losing than our top 6 by doing absolutely nothing that a bottom 6 does to compliment the top players. Soft bottom 6 is gone.
You will get to judge the results later as i will.

 

[markh100]

Nylander's contract negotiation was the most contentious but once you look beyond the David Pastrnak straw man he actually pulls in an upper middle class NHL salary compared to the other Big 3.

There are like maybe 10 very club friendly contracts everyone likes to trot out to compare the Leafs' player salaries. Almost all of them, save Brayden Point, were signed before the player broke out. It's unfortunate that the pandemic struck right before the higher RFA salary trend hit the rest of the league, and that Boston struck gold 3 times with Marchand, Bergeron and Pastrnak all under $7 million. It's annoying as hell that there are so many people out there that thank that just because Nathan MacKinnon is signed for $6.3 million for another 3 seasons, that the Leafs should have been able to sign the big 3 for the same value. When he signed that contract, he was coming off a 21 goal, 53 point season when the cap was a lot lower.