Let us Dream: Steven Stamkos to Toronto 2016/2017

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Do I expect Tito happen? No I do not with that said I didn't expect Shanny to go and get the best coach in the NHL in mike Babcock but he did, then 2 months later get the most successful GM in the past 20 years in Lou but he did, didn't expect him to trade David Clarkson without retaining a dime but he did.

Shanny has delivered on every single thing he has tried to do. So do I think he can deliver this? Yes I do, I don't think he will get the chance but IF he does I think he can deliver because he has done it time and time again already

 

[EN4CER]

Yeah but Stamkos also has a NMC, so he could veto all trades, go on a final run with the Lightning and make a choice in the offseason. Completely handcuffing Tampa.

It's hard to imagine that Stammer would leave Tampa with nothing, but if Sundin, who loved Toronto could do it. Then I could see the same thing happening.

 

[EN4CER]

I don't know man, he was putting up over 90-100 points well before Stamkos even came to town. It was also him who ran the show in the 2011 playoffs while Stamkos took the back seat (again). I think it was Stamkos who "benefitted" more from the "union," and there's more evidence on my side to back it than on yours. Based on the numbers, of course.



Definitely. He's a classy and respectful guy who wouldn't just leave Yzerman high and dry. My prediction is that he re-signs with Tampa around the end of the summer.

Sundin was ALL CLASS

 

[Anthrax442]

Imagine all his friends and family are buzzing in his year all summer. He sees what's going on.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Do I expect Tito happen? No I do not with that said I didn't expect Shanny to go and get the best coach in the NHL in mike Babcock but he did, then 2 months later get the most successful GM in the past 20 years in Lou but he did, didn't expect him to trade David Clarkson without retaining a dime but he did.

Shanny has delivered on every single thing he has tried to do. So do I think he can deliver this? Yes I do, I don't think he will get the chance but IF he does I think he can deliver because he has done it time and time again already

First it needs to be determined whether or not Shanny wants Satmkos or not and I suspect that answer to that depends on how much he would cost.

 

[highslot]

Dedicating a whole thread to him is so desperate and quite frankly, pathetic. There's no guarantee he even makes it all the way to UFA. How many good Ontario Boys and big name free agents have we hoped would come join us only for those hopes to be dashed?

camarelli and vokoun according to rumours (i think mike confirmed it) both told burke that they wanted to play for toronto and he turned them down. clarkson signed with us, when he was one of the most desirable free agents. etc. gretzky wanted to play for us, but stavros turned him down. so there have been some.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

First it needs to be determined whether or not Shanny wants Satmkos or not and I suspect that answer to that depends on how much he would cost.

The answer to that is yes there is NO team that doesn't want Stamkos

 

[Gary Nylund]

The answer to that is yes there is NO team that doesn't want Stamkos

Depends on the cost. If Stamos wants to be paid the max allowable salary for the max term with a NTC, do you think every team would be willing to sign him on those terms?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Depends on the cost. If Stamos wants to be paid the max allowable salary for the max term with a NTC, do you think every team would be willing to sign him on those terms?

Pretty close to those terms yes, I mean teams like Nashville or the panthers couldn't actually afford it they simply don't make enough money but yes every team would be willing to give him close to that

 

[Anthrax442]

Depends on the cost. If Stamos wants to be paid the max allowable salary for the max term with a NTC, do you think every team would be willing to sign him on those terms?

He can ask for whatever from any team, they will pay, it will be the sales job that will sway him any way he will go.

 

[ULF_55]

The answer to that is yes there is NO team that doesn't want Stamkos

Depends on the cost. If Stamos wants to be paid the max allowable salary for the max term with a NTC, do you think every team would be willing to sign him on those terms?

Pretty close to those terms yes, I mean teams like Nashville or the panthers couldn't actually afford it they simply don't make enough money but yes every team would be willing to give him close to that

Perhaps it depends on how the Lightning do this year?

He could chose to leave and sign a 1 year deal with a contender at a reasonable price for his Cup. Stamkos with Toews, Kane, Keith and Seabrook for another.

Then he could go to a rebuilding bottom feeder to help elevate it to respectable status.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Depends on the cost. If Stamos wants to be paid the max allowable salary for the max term with a NTC, do you think every team would be willing to sign him on those terms?

He can ask for whatever from any team, they will pay, it will be the sales job that will sway him any way he will go.

Just to be clear, you're saying that every team would be willing to pay Stamkos max allowable salary for 7 year term with a NTC. All Stamkos has to do is decide who he wants to play for?

Editing to add - you do realize that max allowable salary means just over 14 million per year.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

*72 points* how can you possibly argue anything when you can't get such a simple fact right.

St. Louis had **** all to prove once he got traded, he already put up godlike numbers before Stammer even came to town. Stammer, on the other hand, has EVERYTHING to prove now that St. Louis has left town. And first year since he left, he couldn't even get back to a point-per-game and got cast under the shadow of Tyler Johnson. So why exactly should I answer your gotcha-question when we already know the answer from previous years? There's no use, simple as that, both of us know that St. Louis has posted godlike numbers away from Stammer but Stammer hasn't done it himself. Just cause it was "zomg 10 years ago" doesn't take away from what he's accomplished, if you wanna try play that card, you're only proving yourself wrong again.

Back to you.

edit: come on we're not done already are we? I got **** all to do for the next 10 hours.

Since when is 74 points a bad season? Now answer the question you have been avoiding. I know you have lost the argument when you are talking about St Louis when he played 10 years ago with Richards and Lecavlier.

But as we know, you were talking about Stamkos and St Louis. So I don't know what kind of strawman argument you are trying to invent here. They have nothing to do with St Louis going on a 8 point in 19 game run right after he was traded from TB to NY. Maybe he missed Stamkos carrying him?

Whose numbers dropped more Stamkos or St Louis? When you answer that, maybe you will realize you just who missed who.

 

[ULF_55]

Just to be clear, you're saying that every team would be willing to pay Stamkos max allowable salary for 7 year term with a NTC. All Stamkos has to do is decide who he wants to play for?

If they had Cap space, how many would turn him down?

Even Nashville matched a stupid offersheet for Weber.

 

[Purity*]

Since when is 74 points a bad season? Now answer the question you have been avoiding.

Because it's already been answered??? See St. Louis prior to 2009. Why answer it twice? Seems redundent and unnecessary no? 72 points by the way

I know you have lost the argument when you are talking about St Louis when he played 10 years ago with Richards and Lecavlier.

So now we get to discredit St. Louis' production without Stamkos because it was in the past (definitely don't need to look back as far as 10 years ago either, completey arbitrary number ) and he played with different linemates? Seems to be a massive gap in logic here that you can't see.

But as we know, you were talking about Stamkos and St Louis. So I don't know what kind of strawman argument you are trying to invent here. They have nothing to do with St Louis going on a 8 point in 19 game run right after he was traded from TB to NY. Maybe he missed Stamkos carrying him?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man Give this article a read because you seriously have no idea what strawman means yet you throw it around all the time. Why would I focus on St. Louis' years where he's clearly on the decline of career (being 39 and 40 years old) when I could point to his numbers when he was actually in his prime much similar to Stamkos right now? Seems more relevant to the argument. Surely you can understand that. I mean I know it doesn't agree with your extremist-pro-Stamkos agenda but you can be objective can't you?

Whose numbers dropped more Stamkos or St Louis? When you answer that, maybe you will realize you just who missed who.

Gotta wonder how St. Louis was putting up all those 90-100 point seasons before Stammer even came to town eh? It seems to be the massive mystery that's non-existent in your posts. He was ripping up the league before Stamkos even played in junior. But if you need to cling to his seasons when he was 39 and 40 years old in order to support your arguments then it's clear you have no legs to stand on. Again, why do you I need to answer this when it's already been answered? When you're writing a test, do you write the same answer twice?

Back to you.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If they had Cap space, how many would turn him down?

Even Nashville matched a stupid offersheet for Weber.

This from nhl.com

-- Would a decision not to match the offer sheet send a negative message to current Predators players and other NHL organizations, a message that the Predators would only go so far to protect its best players and be pushed around by teams with "deep pockets?"

When the organization realized the answer to each of these questions was an "emphatic yes," the decision to match was made.

Offer sheets are a different situation, hopefully the above helps explain that a little.

 

[ULF_55]

This from nhl.com

-- Would a decision not to match the offer sheet send a negative message to current Predators players and other NHL organizations, a message that the Predators would only go so far to protect its best players and be pushed around by teams with "deep pockets?"

When the organization realized the answer to each of these questions was an "emphatic yes," the decision to match was made.

Offer sheets are a different situation, hopefully the above helps explain that a little.

I don't think it would have made a huge difference to anyone, and that is an opinion not a fact.

Leafs can outbid teams for free agents did that mean players line up to go to the deep pockets Leafs?

Doesn't really answer the question of which teams (if they had cap space) would turn Stamkos down on a max deal?

Personally, I don't think he'd get 30 teams offering him MAX contract, and not sure if the Leafs would go 7*20% either.

Has anyone ever received a Max?

I don't think Stamkos is worth it.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

His numbers have actually dropped considerably since Martin St. Louis was traded from Tampa. As far as Kessel vs Stamkos offensively, it is much closer than people think or will even acknowledge. Stamkos certainly has the edge compete level/work ethic wise though. Funny thing is, for Kessel's small sample size in the playoffs, he has produced considerably more than Stamkos in the playoffs.

Post http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=105507469&postcount=871

Let's try this again. Since you have avoided, dodged, tried to get away from this comment 2 days in a row. Try to answer the bolded. And not invent discussions only you are partaking in.

1. Stamkos' numbers of 74 points is what you term consider dropping off dramatically while playing with Killlorn and Filppula? Are these players as good as Kane and Hossa? I would say any player that can put up 74 points with 2, 3rd liners is having a good year.

I expect a reply.

2. What are 39 year old St Louis' numbers without Stamkos? What were his numbers when he was 38 when he played with Stamkos. You want to claim drop off. How far off did St Louis numbers drop off?

When you are done, compare the drop offs. Tell me what is your conclusion. There is only one player that has dramatically dropped off. Can you name him?

I expect a reply to these 2 questions, not more distraction and changing topics to change the narrative.

Your move.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I don't think it would have made a huge difference to anyone, and that is an opinion not a fact.

Leafs can outbid teams for free agents did that mean players line up to go to the deep pockets Leafs?

Doesn't really answer the question of which teams (if they had cap space) would turn Stamkos down on a max deal?

Personally, I don't think he'd get 30 teams offering him MAX contract, and not sure if the Leafs would go 7*20% either.

Has anyone ever received a Max?

I don't think Stamkos is worth it.

I think NSH matched the Weber offer but would not have made the same offer themselves. Yes it's only my opinion, no team would ever admit it by saying something like *yeah we didn't want to offer him that much but we felt like we had a gun to our heads and were concerned about what effect not matching would have had on our team".

Like I said, offer sheets are a different thing entirely (in my opinion) and this has no bearing on Stamkos.

As far as how many teams would offer him the max - I have no idea. I was just asking a poster to clarify that in his opinion every team would be willing to do that. We weren't just talking about salary, we were also talking about term with a NTC.

If you really want my best guess, we were talking about max salary (14m+) for max term (7 years) with a NTC and I have my doubts about any team being willing to do that. If he were to become UFA and wants to go to the highest bidder I think he gets about 12m (with max term and a NTC). I also think he gets that much because UFA's tend to get overpaid and I hope it's not from us.

 

[Purity*]

Post http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=105507469&postcount=871

Let's try this again. Since you have avoided, dodged, tried to get away from this comment 2 days in a row. Try to answer the bolded. And not invent discussions only you are partaking in.

1. Stamkos' numbers of 74 points is what you term consider dropping off dramatically while playing with Killlorn and Filppula? Are these players as good as Kane and Hossa? I would say any player that can put up 74 points with 2, 3rd liners is having a good year.

I expect a reply.

2. What are 39 year old St Louis' numbers without Stamkos? What were his numbers when he was 38 when he played with Stamkos. You want to claim drop off. How far off did St Louis numbers drop off?

When you are done, compare the drop offs. Tell me what is your conclusion. There is only one player that has dramatically dropped off. Can you name him?

I expect a reply to these 2 questions, not more distraction and changing topics to change the narrative.

Your move.

Already been answered

Already been answered.

Where the **** did Kane and Hossa come from?

Apparently players don't decline in their late 30's. I attribute St. Louis' decline in production due to his age that you know, happens to every single player in the history of the NHL, and also the fact that NYR doesn't have anyone like Stamkos for him to play with and is a much lower scoring, more defensive based team in general, these 3 reasons are more than enough to conclude his decline in production. That good enough for you or are you still upset that's not the answer you wanted? I could give 2 ***** about the differences in "dropoff of production." There's a billion things you can factor in to differentiate that.

I attribute Stamkos' drop in production to St. Louis' abscence from TBL because one does not simply go from the production he was at in prior years to dropping to 72 points. Definitely missing that elite playmaking aspect that St. Louis brought. If Kessel was able to take 2 40-50 point players and still make it ta PPG, I don't see how Stamkos can't do the same. No excuses, he doesn't deserve any. Same thing with his playoff performance, all you did was try to make excuses for him as to why he under-performed, there are none, he just can't get it done when it matters most. His 2 furthest playoff runs he took the backseat to both St. Louis and Johnson. Best players need to be your best players, and Stamkos wasn't that in either of those runs.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Already been answered

Already been answered.

Where the **** did Kane and Hossa come from?

Apparently players don't decline in their late 30's. I attribute St. Louis' decline in production due to his age that you know, happens to every single player in the history of the NHL, and also the fact that NYR doesn't have anyone like Stamkos for him to play with and is a much lower scoring, more defensive based team in general, these 3 reasons are more than enough to conclude his decline in production. That good enough for you or are you still upset that's not the answer you wanted? I could give 2 ***** about the differences in "dropoff of production." There's a billion things you can factor in to differentiate that.

I attribute Stamkos' drop in production to St. Louis' abscence from TBL because one does not simply go from the production he was at in prior years to dropping to 72 points. Definitely missing that elite playmaking aspect that St. Louis brought. If Kessel was able to take 2 40-50 point players and still make it ta PPG, I don't see how Stamkos can't do the same. No excuses, he doesn't deserve any. Same thing with his playoff performance, all you did was try to make excuses for him as to why he under-performed, there are none, he just can't get it done when it matters most.

Still waiting for an answer. What is this diatribe you are on? Are you having a discussion with yourself?

I know you cited that St Louis was older, an excuse not made when he was 38 and had 61 points in 62 games with Stamkos propping up a 38 year old St Louis?

So again, just answer the questions.

You claimed Stamkos' production dramatically fell off, 74 points with Klllorn and Filppula. You think this is a drop off with these 2 players as linemates?

The Recent Numbers don't lie.

St Louis the last season with Stamkos.
61 points in 62 games.

Without Stamkos as a Ranger.
60 points in 93 games

Stamkos without St Louis.
74 points in 82 games.

 

[Snow Dog]

Already been answered

Already been answered.

Where the **** did Kane and Hossa come from?

Apparently players don't decline in their late 30's. I attribute St. Louis' decline in production due to his age that you know, happens to every single player in the history of the NHL, and also the fact that NYR doesn't have anyone like Stamkos for him to play with and is a much lower scoring, more defensive based team in general, these 3 reasons are more than enough to conclude his decline in production. That good enough for you or are you still upset that's not the answer you wanted? I could give 2 ***** about the differences in "dropoff of production." There's a billion things you can factor in to differentiate that.

I attribute Stamkos' drop in production to St. Louis' abscence from TBL because one does not simply go from the production he was at in prior years to dropping to 72 points. Definitely missing that elite playmaking aspect that St. Louis brought. If Kessel was able to take 2 40-50 point players and still make it ta PPG, I don't see how Stamkos can't do the same. No excuses, he doesn't deserve any. Same thing with his playoff performance, all you did was try to make excuses for him as to why he under-performed, there are none, he just can't get it done when it matters most. His 2 furthest playoff runs he took the backseat to both St. Louis and Johnson. Best players need to be your best players, and Stamkos wasn't that in either of those runs.

Stammer was coming back from a broken leg the same day MSL was traded.That in itself had more to do with his drop in production than the loss of MSL.

 

[Purity*]

Still waiting for an answer. What is this diatribe you are on? Are you having a discussion with yourself?

I attribute St. Louis' decline in production due to his age that you know, happens to every single player in the history of the NHL, and also the fact that NYR doesn't have anyone like Stamkos for him to play with and is a much lower scoring, more defensive based team in general, these 3 reasons are more than enough to conclude his decline in production.

Yup, those 3 things are easily valid enough to show his drop in production. Could give 2 ***** what he produced the year before. Players in their late 30's tend to rapidly decline in production, see: every single player in NHL history.

I know you cited that St Louis was older, an excuse not made when he was 38 and had 61 points in 62 games with Stamkos propping up a 38 year old St Louis?

Cool story bro. Wayne Gretzky exerienced a 28-point decline in his last year in the league. Joe Sakic fell of the radar on his last years in the league too. Mats Sundin utterly hit the floor as well. Do I have to cite examples of players rapidly declining in their late 30's? There's a list a mile long and yes it includes MSL.

So again, just answer the questions.

You claimed Stamkos' production dramatically fell off, 74 points with Klllorn and Filppula. You think this is a drop off with these 2 players as linemates?

The Recent Numbers don't lie.

St Louis the last season with Stamkos.
61 points in 62 games.

Without Stamkos as a Ranger.
60 points in 93 games

Stamkos without St Louis.
74 points in 82 games.

This is 100% undeniable evidence that players in their late 30's decline. Thank you very much for proving my point. Looks like we're on the same page afterall. Anything else you'd like to discuss?

 

[The Winter Soldier]

I attribute St. Louis' decline in production due to his age that you know, happens to every single player in the history of the NHL, and also the fact that NYR doesn't have anyone like Stamkos for him to play with and is a much lower scoring, more defensive based team in general, these 3 reasons are more than enough to conclude his decline in production.

Yup, those 3 things are easily valid enough to show his drop in production. Could give 2 ***** what he produced the year before. Players in their late 30's tend to rapidly decline in production, see: every single player in NHL history.



Cool story bro. Wayne Gretzky exerienced a 28-point decline in his last year in the league. Joe Sakic fell of the radar on his last years in the league too. Mats Sundin utterly hit the floor as well. Do I have to cite examples of players rapidly declining in their late 30's? There's a list a mile long and yes it includes MSL.



This is 100% undeniable evidence that players in their late 30's decline. Thank you very much for proving my point. Looks like we're on the same page afterall. Anything else you'd like to discuss?

It's just due to age. When he had 61 points in 62 games at age 38 with Stamkos. You have convinced the board. A super point. Age….Well that explains it.

What does Gretzky and Sakic have to do with when St Louis reduced production when he was traded away, the production declined so much, that he retired. And Stamkos just kept on producing, 74 points with a linemate like Killorn as a winger.

Yep, that was a strong reply. Cool story bro.

 

[Purity*]

It's just due to age. When he had 61 points in 62 games at age 38 with Stamkos. You have convinced the board. A super point. Age….Well that explains it.

What does Gretzky and Sakic have to do with when St Louis reduced production when he was traded away, the production declined so much, that he retired. And Stamkos just kept on producing, 74 points with a linemate like Killorn as a winger.

Yep, that was a strong reply. Cool story bro.

Thank you, your lack of a rebuttal only reinforces this.

Proved both my points of Stamkos declining without St. Louis and how players in their late 30's rapidly decline in production. Killed 2 birds with one stone and I didn't even have to say anything

Let's hope Drouin can provide Stamkos with some much-needed support, if he doesn't there's a very good chance he will get outshined by Tyler Johnson and the triplets again. And if Tampa makes it back to the finals let's hope to god he can do better than 1 point in 6 games, embarrassing performance by their captain and best player.