Proposal: Leon Draisaitl + Jesse Puljujarvi for Ivan Provorov + Anthony Stolarz

[Jetsetter]

Jet fan, Oilers are getting smoked on this deal! No way it works. Who's Anthony Stolarz?

 

[He Is Knocking]

That's the problem. You wouldn't reluctantly take this, you would take it and laugh all the way to the bank because you are getting easily the two best players. I am not a fan of either team, but this thread has me fired up because of how homerish the flyers fans have been.

Flyer fans have been homerish?? The way I read it most if not all state it favors the Flyers. If you're fired up by this thread I can't argue but gotta believe Paw Patrol gets your dander up or you're just having a go against Flyer fans..

 

[Tripod]

That's the problem. You wouldn't reluctantly take this, you would take it and laugh all the way to the bank because you are getting easily the two best players. I am not a fan of either team, but this thread has me fired up because of how homerish the flyers fans have been.

And then we get to overpay when immediately having to try and trade for a #1 Dman or prospect who projects to possible be that.

But hey, they are at least easy to acquire right??

Jet fan, Oilers are getting smoked on this deal! No way it works. Who's Anthony Stolarz?

See below

2nd round pick
WJC player
2 time Memorial Cup player
OHL top SV%
AHL All Star

 

[ManofSteel55]

Flyer fans have been homerish?? The way I read it most if not all state it favors the Flyers. If you're fired up by this thread I can't argue but gotta believe Paw Patrol gets your dander up or you're just having a go against Flyer fans..

Every fanbase is homerish about their prospects, some have just been attempting to counterbalance the unrealistic expectations that are placed on some of your defense prospects (in many threads too, not just this one). Referring to Provorov as a #1 defenseman and that sort of thing. If you can't handle people countering your opinions on your prospects, that's your problem, no need to suggest the thread get locked over it.

 

[ManofSteel55]

And then we get to overpay when immediately having to try and trade for a #1 Dman or prospect who projects to possible be that.

But hey, they are at least easy to acquire right??



See below

After last year, isn't Ghost your projected number 1 defenseman?
EDIT - not that I would be happy to trade Provorov anyway, just looking for clarification.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

After last year, isn't Ghost your projected number 1 defenseman?
EDIT - not that I would be happy to trade Provorov anyway, just looking for clarification.

Right now Del Zotto is kinda playing in that role. I do think Ghost could play his way there though.

 

[ponder719]

After last year, isn't Ghost your projected number 1 defenseman?

Not really. Assuming for the moment that everyone pans out, he's expected to be our #1 PP guy, but he's an offensive specialist, primarily; some see him as our #2 with Provorov (with Sanheim-Morin as our 2nd pairing), while others have him as #3 with Morin (if Provorov-Sanheim proves more effective as our first pairing.) Either way, we're all excited about the possibility of our first true home grown defensive stars since... Watson, maybe?

Personally, I like the idea of Ghost-Morin, because Morin could develop into an absolute monster, and pairing a shifty guy like Ghost with a pissed-off Braydon Coburn (which is the realistic version of what Morin could become; none of this "Oh, he'll be Chris Pronger" nonsense) is a great combination. Someone tries to take liberties with Ghost, Morin takes their head. Either way, though, we're hopeful of a great combination.

 

[He Is Knocking]

Every fanbase is homerish about their prospects, some have just been attempting to counterbalance the unrealistic expectations that are placed on some of your defense prospects (in many threads too, not just this one). Referring to Provorov as a #1 defenseman and that sort of thing. If you can't handle people countering your opinions on your prospects, that's your problem, no need to suggest the thread get locked over it.

Being truthful it looks like Oiler fans want to keep this thread rolling...

I can't blame them , you all finally have a thread where peeps are speaking fondly of your organization and prospects. Enjoy your day in the sun and by all means keep it rolling even if you have to write reaching comments or imply things that haven't been said by Flyer fans. I'll bail on this thread because everything's already been stated many times over.

Again, enjoy your day in the sun and by all means have a great day!

 

[Tripod]

After last year, isn't Ghost your projected number 1 defenseman?
EDIT - not that I would be happy to trade Provorov anyway, just looking for clarification.

Honestly...who knows.

Ghost had a great year....better than anyone ever expected. If he can continue the offense and improve his strength, he certainly could be. Reality is, we do have options:

Provy...viewed as the most well rounded of our D prospects. He won't get the points that Ghost will, but will be relied upon to face other teams top lines most likely. With his blend of defense, offense and size, he gets pegged at the the most likely #1 guy. Will get #2 PP time and #1 PK minutes

Morin...viewed as that big, mean, hard to play against SOB who's playstyle will compliment the others nicely. He will be the defensive anchor so Sanheim or Ghost can push the offense. Will be relied upon on the PK.

Sanheim....likely plays the right side and will have Provy or Morin as his D partner....2 guys who will focus more on defense and transition. He will push the offense if given the chance. Will likely get #2 PP time

Ghost...will pair with Provy or Morin. Morin certainly makes more sense in that Morin can handle the bigger bodies while Ghost looks to break up plays and transition the play. Will be the #1 PP guy.

So in reality, Ghost could be on the 1st unit...or the 2nd. Same with Sanheim assuming he keeps progressing.

Or maybe they go with a Provy-Gudas top pairing to go against top lines and let Ghost and Sanheim create matchup problems for teams other lines.

Who knows.

But what we do know, is that Provy has the blend of offense and defense that the others don't have. The others tend to have one trait better than the other...Provy is good at both.

And remember, Philly had Ghost, Sanheim, Morin, Hagg, Friedman all in the pipeline...and still targeted Provorov....even willing to move up to make sure they got him. They think he will be the anchor on defense and let others slot into favorable positions. Time will tell if they were right....but Hextall has given no reason to doubt him.

 

[NYCFlyer]

Every fanbase is homerish about their prospects, some have just been attempting to counterbalance the unrealistic expectations that are placed on some of your defense prospects (in many threads too, not just this one). Referring to Provorov as a #1 defenseman and that sort of thing. If you can't handle people countering your opinions on your prospects, that's your problem, no need to suggest the thread get locked over it.

Of Course any passionate fanbase is especially since the primary way you get top notch prospects is for your team to have sucked for a while. That being said, it is very difficult to win the cup without an elite/ true No 1 defenseman. The Flyers primary weakness forever has been on defense/goaltending. Although I totally agree Drai and Pulu are excellent players and I would certainly take the trade I understand the reluctance on some because Prov is our best chance at getting an elite D and Stol is our best Goalie prospect. I would further argue that as stacked as the Oilers are with great young forwards their future chances at winning a Cup hinge on acquiring a Letang/Doughty/Kieth type defenseman. See the Caps. Good D Great forwards and Goaltending. Great in regular season but got smoked by the Pens because the D got exposed. I have seen Larson play a lot and although i think its possible he could develop into that guy (Jersey was almost unwatchable because their O was so bad so they played prevent) and I think its unlikely. I definitely would have gone for a more dynamic player. Interested to see how McJesus does with the more offensively focuse/talented defenseman in the WC.

 

[CatchyTune]

Unless Stolarz becomes the next Bishop, I don't see this working.

I don't even see why Edmonton needs another LD really, as great as Provorov is.

 

[Boxscore]

I'm a Flyers fan and Provorov is my favorite Flyers prospect since Forsberg. That said, I'd pack his bags and drive him to the airport for Draisaitl and Puljujarvi. Any Flyers fan who wouldn't has either overdosed on orange kool-aid or had a mini stroke.

 

[Tikhonov]

Philly says no pretty easily.


Provorov is an extremely rare type of Dman, and is one of the very few Defensive prospects where you're not worried about his development.


He's going to be an elite #1D. And Philly isn't trading him for a couple of forwards.

U forgot the mate

 

[oobga]

Couldn't see Chia trading potential for potential any more. He needs to start winning now. Those are interesting pieces that could well turn into great players, but the risk taking needs to stop in Edmonton. If you're moving Drai or Poolparty, need guys back that you know will help now with at least a couple years of NHL action under their belts.

 

[Starat327]

That's the problem. You wouldn't reluctantly take this, you would take it and laugh all the way to the bank because you are getting easily the two best players. I am not a fan of either team, but this thread has me fired up because of how homerish the flyers fans have been.

Why is it that we can't make a trade and not be huge fans of it? They flyers have a pretty good offensive core as is. Their weakness is is that they have no one to defend, and until Ghost came on the scene, no one to transition the play. So now we are supposed to be super excited about trading away our first home grown chance of a #1 d man for a Center and winger who, while great, aren't a dire need for the team?

I don't think we're getting the two best players, and maybe that's where the tension lies. All three will be great players I think, with bright futures. But everyone is acknowledging pool party's amazing ability and anointing him the next Patrick kane, but Provorov 'isn't proven', 'is just a prospect until be plays an NHL game', etc. It's a bit disingenuous to me, that's all.

 

[stokes84]

Why is it that we can't make a trade and not be huge fans of it? They flyers have a pretty good offensive core as is. Their weakness is is that they have no one to defend, and until Ghost came on the scene, no one to transition the play. So now we are supposed to be super excited about trading away our first home grown chance of a #1 d man for a Center and winger who, while great, aren't a dire need for the team?

I don't think we're getting the two best players, and maybe that's where the tension lies. All three will be great players I think, with bright futures. But everyone is acknowledging pool party's amazing ability and anointing him the next Patrick kane, but Provorov 'isn't proven', 'is just a prospect until be plays an NHL game', etc. It's a bit disingenuous to me, that's all.

because he's clearly the better prospect. There's nothing disingenuous about it. It would be like if Calagary fans were trying to argue that Sam Bennett was on par with Eichel before either played in the NHL. Well they are both just prospects... No, they're not. One is a super prospect. The other is very good, but he's not a super prospect.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

because he's clearly the better prospect. There's nothing disingenuous about it. It would be like if Calagary fans were trying to argue that Sam Bennett was on par with Eichel before either played in the NHL. Well they are both just prospects... No, they're not. One is a super prospect. The other is very good, but he's not a super prospect.

Neither is a tier above the other.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

because he's clearly the better prospect. There's nothing disingenuous about it. It would be like if Calagary fans were trying to argue that Sam Bennett was on par with Eichel before either played in the NHL. Well they are both just prospects... No, they're not. One is a super prospect. The other is very good, but he's not a super prospect.

What about Sabres fans who tried saying Eichel is on the same level as McDavid? Heard plenty of that last summer.

 

[zar]

Almost all Flyer fans have agreed that they would do this trade because it's like saying you would turn down a 6OA pick for a 4OA + 3OA (NHL proven)... you wouldn't do that the value is too great.

I have to say that, after watching the Oiler's D over the past decade, I do understand the Flyer fans reluctance to trade Provorov... although they are not in that bad of a position with Ghost, Morin, Sanheim, etc. and would likely be a city/team that could land a very good UFA. I think if it was Hanafin/Puljujarvi instead of Draisaitl/Puljujarvi there would be zero hesitation... yes I know the Oilers would have no reason to offer that but the point is they are not arguing the value but rather the team need. Just like the Oilers lost a battle to win a war when they traded Hall (lost the trade) to make their team better. That is yet to be proven, but I am very confident the Oilers will be a much, much improved team this year. Also, look at the Oiler fans (myself included) reluctance to trade Nurse... if the Leafs offer Marner and Nylander for Nurse and Broissoit... yeah, I would probably do it... I would do it... very reluctantly (and Leaf's fans would laugh at me and say 'reluctantly'?... you should jump all over that).

 

[Starat327]

because he's clearly the better prospect. There's nothing disingenuous about it. It would be like if Calagary fans were trying to argue that Sam Bennett was on par with Eichel before either played in the NHL. Well they are both just prospects... No, they're not. One is a super prospect. The other is very good, but he's not a super prospect.

So in your professional opinion, one is a super project, and the other is 'good'? I'd wager that being named the best D prospect in the world (or, as I mentioned before, 2nd best, whatever scale you want you use) holds just as much weight as being a top 3 forward prospect, no? I think the issue is that maybe you don't hold Provorov in a high regard, and that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to change that. But that doesn't change the reality that he is held in very high regard in the professional hockey community, where it actually matters.

 

[Kuzy 91]

Oh good no. Please, no.

 

[ManofSteel55]

So in your professional opinion, one is a super project, and the other is 'good'? I'd wager that being named the best D prospect in the world (or, as I mentioned before, 2nd best, whatever scale you want you use) holds just as much weight as being a top 3 forward prospect, no? I think the issue is that maybe you don't hold Provorov in a high regard, and that's your prerogative. I'm not trying to change that. But that doesn't change the reality that he is held in very high regard in the professional hockey community, where it actually matters.

Well, one thing to consider is that Pulujarvi is essentially universally considered NHL top 6 ready. That was the scouting report before the draft, and it really hasn't changed. Its no slight for Provorov to not be considered a lock yet, defenders take longer to develop and often need AHL time to adjust more than forwards. And we know for a fact that in man cases, ready sooner = more desirable for NHL teams.

All this said, I think both are top 10 prospects, and that Flyers fans are right to consider them worth very similar. One just looks closer than the other.

 

[stokes84]

Best D prospect in hockey and a top 3 wing prospect aren't in the same tier?

He's not the best D prospect in hockey. He wasn't the best defensemen in his own class. The defensemen drafted directly after him can easily claim to be the same level or better. Timothy Liljegren is a better defensive prospect in this upcoming draft. Pulju would undoubtedly be the no. 1 prospect in this draft, and quite a few others, something Provorov would never be considered for. I'm sorry, you guys are out to lunch on this.

 

[ManofSteel55]

He's not the best D prospect in hockey. He wasn't the best defensemen in his own class. The defensemen drafted directly after him can easily claim to be the same level or better. Timothy Liljegren is a better defensive prospect in this upcoming draft. Pulju would undoubtedly be the no. 1 prospect in this draft, and quite a few others, something Provorov would never be considered for. I'm sorry, you guys are out to lunch on this.

We're splitting hairs here. Provorov isn't the clear cut top defense prospect in hockey, but of those who are drafted he is 1 or 2.

 

[stokes84]

Well, one thing to consider is that Pulujarvi is essentially universally considered NHL top 6 ready. That was the scouting report before the draft, and it really hasn't changed. Its no slight for Provorov to not be considered a lock yet, defenders take longer to develop and often need AHL time to adjust more than forwards. And we know for a fact that in man cases, ready sooner = more desirable for NHL teams.

All this said, I think both are top 10 prospects, and that Flyers fans are right to consider them worth very similar. One just looks closer than the other.

They aren't right to value them as close, but it's nice of you to be diplomatic.