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Legacies that were hurt/helped by off-ice behavior

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hototogisu said:
Eh, it still fits the thread to me. St. Louis had that near-holy image for years of the little guy who not only made it but became a superstar at a time when little guys just didn't play in the league. Like you said, he had a 15 year track record, and then at the end there were a couple of things that just made you say "hmm". No doubt he had to play with a chip on his shoulder for years, but you started to wonder if the chip was getting a little oversized. I think it took the shine off him a little bit.

It's like that old saying goes, it takes 20 years to build a reputation and 20 minutes to destroy it. Not that he destroyed anything, obviously, but it just goes to show how little it takes to start casting shade on an otherwise unblemished career.
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i think things like that will be forgotten soon enough. it's true, how he left has certainly coloured the way i think about MSL, but by 2020 when he'll have been inducted into the hall of fame, that's probably not what we'll talk about. and by 2030, most of us won't even remember that it ever happened.

whereas all the stunts that eric lindros pulled? that's not something you forget.
 
vadim sharifijanov said:
i think things like that will be forgotten soon enough. it's true, how he left has certainly coloured the way i think about MSL, but by 2020 when he'll have been inducted into the hall of fame, that's probably not what we'll talk about. and by 2030, most of us won't even remember that it ever happened.

whereas all the stunts that eric lindros pulled? that's not something you forget.
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True. There's different degrees. And hockey has so much of that "shut up, be humble, don't complain, be happy with what you have" mentality that when St-Louis kind of broke from that with the Olympics stuff, it raised more hackles than it probably should have.
 
One guy I thought of here is Craig Conroy. American player comes to Calgary and essentially becomes the favorite athlete of the community. Partly for that reason, he's now the assistant-GM of the franchise.
 
With all the charity work Fedorov does in Detroit, one would think his stocks should be higher with the people. Alas they aren't.
 
Some players also had their reputations negatively affected by off-ice stuff, yet eventually redeemed themselves.

Jaromir Jagr is the most obvious exemple.
 
What was the deal with Tim Thomas again? Is it that he refused to go meet the President at the White House (because he was some sort of republican), or was there something else too?

Refusing to go to the White House is not that bad, I mean you're not forced to be patriotic or to put on a facade and play nice if you really dislike a politician/party (or politicians as a whole) and don't respect him/them.But of course, there's many ways to do that too, some classier than others.
 
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I'm not a fan of Tim Thomas as a player|person but I thought it was cool he came out as an anti-establishment guy.
 
i think with thomas, because something like a quarter of this country lost its mind after an african-american became the president, a lot of people assumed that thomas' refusal to go to the white house meant he is a racist. rightly or wrongly, i have no idea, but after that public opinion of him went from lovable aw shucks midwestern rudy made good to secessionist right wing holocaust denying gun nut.
 
BenchBrawl said:
What was the deal with Tim Thomas again? Is it that he refused to go meet the President at the White House (because he was some sort of republican), or was there something else too?

Refusing to go to the White House is not that bad, I mean you're not forced to be patriotic or to put on a facade and play nice if you really dislike a politician/party (or politicians as a whole) and don't respect him/them.But of course, there's many ways to do that too, some classier than others.
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Tim Thomas took a year off for "friends, family, and faith." And he made the announcement while Rask was a free agent. Timing probably could have been better.
 
BenchBrawl said:
What was the deal with Tim Thomas again? Is it that he refused to go meet the President at the White House (because he was some sort of republican), or was there something else too?

Refusing to go to the White House is not that bad, I mean you're not forced to be patriotic or to put on a facade and play nice if you really dislike a politician/party (or politicians as a whole) and don't respect him/them.But of course, there's many ways to do that too, some classier than others.
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Putting himself ahead of the team by snubbing the Obama Admin on their White House visit pissed a lot of people off. I won't get in to the politics angle of it all. But I'll say that if he hadn't made that more of an individual vs administration thing then he would have fared better.

And as mentioned above, he then proceeded to take a year off and made the announcement while the team was in the middle of contract negations with Rask, all of that following the fallout from the WH snub.

I have no problem with people being politically active or anti-establishment, but when they do it at the expense of the team it really rubs people the wrong way.
 
On obvious omission here is Adam Graves, who probably does more charity work and good deeds than any other player.
 
the edler said:
I'm not a fan of Tim Thomas as a player|person but I thought it was cool he came out as an anti-establishment guy.
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no he did not come off as anti-establishment

he came off as the spoil brat he is--he was born into a well off family--Education fully paid for by his parents

George Carlin is the poster child for anti-establishment
 
Lord J T Shark said:
no he did not come off as anti-establishment

he came off as the spoil brat he is--he was born into a well off family--Education fully paid for by his parents

George Carlin is the poster child for anti-establishment
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Maybe there are different ways of being anti-establishment?

Carlin performed regularly at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, while at the same time railing against the stupidity of people traveling there to spend their money. Bit of a hypocrite, no?

Talk about spoiled and entitled. Insulting your audience like that (which he seemed to do pretty regularly). Lenny Bruce he ain't. One of those people who I agree with a lot of what they are saying, but hate the way they say it. Bitter, bitter, bitter.
 
Moose Head said:
Cheevers/Barrasso might be another example of this phenomenon
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What did Cheevers do other than go to the WHA? Being a Bruins fan I've never heard of him being an a-hole. Other than the fact that his WHA departure left plenty of resentment.



I knew this thread would contain tons of Barrasso/Lindros/Thomas references the first two are fully deserved but Thomas would be put on a pedestal and praised as a hero for his outspokenness by the media if his views fell on the other side of the fence.
 
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vadim sharifijanov said:
i think with thomas, because something like a quarter of this country lost its mind after an african-american became the president, a lot of people assumed that thomas' refusal to go to the white house meant he is a racist. rightly or wrongly, i have no idea, but after that public opinion of him went from lovable aw shucks midwestern rudy made good to secessionist right wing holocaust denying gun nut.
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No, noone ever accused him of that.


Thomas aired his views publicly (which his teammates and everyone apart from the public all were fully aware of) and then didn't have any sort of social skills or charisma to defend them/himself when he was pressed on them by the media who disagreed with his views. I think if Boston fans had been aware of how he felt and that he was at the polar end of the spectrum politically from day 1 and before he won the Cup it wouldn't have been an issue at all but they came out at once and he followed up the White House non-visit with political facebook posts that lots of people were clearly going to take issue with and then wasn't willing to discuss them in the media. So a non-story became a story.


Hes really only guilty of being that annoying guy on the plane or at the bar that you make the enormous mistake of bringing up politics with and his views are so far flung that any discussion is worthless but thats it. And as I said in the post before if he was on the otehr side of the spectrum politically he would be praised for being so outspoken.

He didn't F the Bruins like he could have by retiring. We also had his replacement ready to play. The Bruins had an elite D still and Thomas clearly wanted to play behind them instead of on another team so the exit was always going to be uncomfortable.

As an NHL player Thomas wasn't stupid and knew the lockout was coming if the NHL was about to have a f:Dull regular season in 2013 he may have been OK with a trade to a team of his choosing or fighting for his job but when they clearly weren't going to play a year off made sense.

No Bruins fans hold this against him even the most liberal the guy delivering a Cup supersedes politics for all of us.
 
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Lord J T Shark said:
no he did not come off as anti-establishment

he came off as the spoil brat he is--he was born into a well off family--Education fully paid for by his parents

George Carlin is the poster child for anti-establishment
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Pure horse ****.

His parents are famous for selling their wedding rings to send him to goalie camp wtf is this trash??? That is the story everyone even non-Bruins fans knew about him.


He was almost automatically an outlier in the NHL because he looked like he should be driving a truck and not playing sports in the big leagues and came from complete obscurity to be one of the leagues best goalies (and he was a weird ass goalie they are all odd jobs) but thats it.


WTF is wrong with people its fine if you wanna call Thomas a right wing loony tune but hes been called a racist in this thread totally unfairly and then called a trust fund baby when he clearly came from a meager background.

WTF?
 
MarshmontMcSlewfoot said:
What did Cheevers do other than go to the WHA? Being a Bruins fan I've never heard of him being an a-hole. Other than the fact that his WHA departure left plenty of resentment.



I knew this thread would contain tons of Barrasso/Lindros/Thomas references the first two are fully deserved but Thomas would be put on a pedestal and praised as a hero for his outspokenness by the media if his views fell on the other side of the fence.
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I think you misunderstood me my friend. I think Cheevers is one of the most likeable guys in the sport. Barasso is not. Hence my point being Cheevers is more reverred and in the hall and Barasso is not, despite having similar careers.
 
Kovalchuk definitely hurt his legacy by leaving the Devils in the middle of a huge contract to play for more money at home. Aggravating is the punishment the Devils got for the contract he demanded.
 
There's no big left-wing conspiracy targetting Tim Thomas.

He brought that fall-out on himself by acting like a huge hypocrite and *********.

And no, he wouldn't be praised for being 'outspoken' if his views simply fell on the other side of the fence... His views, as they are, would be largely forgotten if he acted like an adult. Instead he for some reason thought he should be able to skip a team tradition, post drunken Uncle rants on Facebook, and then act like a persecuted victim whose 'privacy' was being invaded when he was asked about it. Its the hypocricy and petulance, more than anything, that soured people on him.
 
Drop the politics talk, folks.

If you want to say that politics impacted Thomas' legacy, then say that. Beyond that, take it to the Politics forum.
 
Grant Fuhr got suspended for 50 games for cocaine use

Didn't affect his legacy one bit
 
crobro said:
Grant Fuhr got suspended for 50 games for cocaine use

Didn't affect his legacy one bit
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It may have - what if he'd been the man in 1990 instead of Ranford? One more Cup as a starter on the resume never hurts.
 
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