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gifted88
Dante the poet
Damphousse for me. I know he was acquitted of his charges but I think less of him because of the details that came out.
Hard to think of guys who have had off-ice stuff effect them in a positive way.
Hard to think of guys who have had off-ice stuff effect them in a positive way.
Jean Beliveau was a HOFer regardless, but he was a true gentleman in every sense of the word by all accounts. You couldn't dig up any dirt on him.
Uncle Rotter
Registered User
Big Phil
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- Nov 2, 2003
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I don't know............so many of the ones whose careers are in the "hurt" section really didn't hurt them. They are but a mere footnote. Brodeur did come out with a bit of a shocking revelation that he left his wife for his former sister in law (his wife's brother's ex-wife, not his wife's sister). That was in 2003. Then he wins the Cup and is in the middle of winning a string of Vezinas. I don't know, no one ever mentions that anymore. Brodeur's cheery personality probably helped.
Roy breaking Sawchuk's wins record and then being charged for domestic abuse right after that sounds worse than it is. I believe he just got into an argument with his wife regarding in-laws and out of anger he ripped a closet door or two off. Not saying that's good, just saying, who the heck can't get that mad about their in-laws? That didn't hurt him at all.
Hasek with that reporter in 1997 doesn't change anything either. If you thought Hasek was a flake before you weren't going to change your mind just because a reporter got shoved around for accusing Hasek of faking an injury.
Vanbiesbrouck probably doesn't have the career for the HHOF as it is (close though) but of all the times we talk about him on here does anyone remember when he was let go in 2003 for using a racial slur against then junior player Trevor Daley while he was coaching the Soo Greyhounds in the OHL? It is an issue that I thought was blown way out of proportion and really should have stayed within the walls of the team. Beezer apologized for it and for all intents and purposes never has a bad thing said about him and has been able to find work after hockey, within hockey.
Okay, now onto the big one. Lindros. Yes, it has hurt him. Why him and no one else? Because it happened three times. It was a pattern. With the OHL, with Quebec and then with Philadelphia. It wasn't an isolated incident and he just has never recovered from it because he was never the same player once he left Philly and he cost himself a Cup by not going to Quebec. Plus people in hockey can have grudges. So yeah, this hurts him getting into the HHOF.
From the "helped" pile. Gretzky for sure. Plus anyone of Orr, Howe, Beliveau, Rocket, etc. All had an impact positively on the game. Mario took a while. Remember, he had a lot of critics in his early days. He was a little surly with the media and had a reputation of being lazy. The thing is, after those two huge Cup runs and the cancer recovery most people stopped with that criticism because the fact that Mario didn't have heart or loved the game pretty much disappeared from people's thoughts. However, some people still hung onto that. So yeah, eventually it helped him.
Not sure Theo Fleury is in the "helped" section. It is true that we now know what happened to him with Graham James and it is awful and I personally always loved Fleury regardless during his career but the truth is, some didn't. His antics on the ice and the rehab and such definitely hurt him even if you can understand why he had those problems now. I'd put him in the HHOF, but my guess is this has held him back.
The other names, Subban is pretty deep in charities so that's good. Even as a Leaf fan I've learned to like him a bit. Sedins and Luongo though.........hmmm. The Sedins just by being unique as twins you mean? Luongo I am not sure how his image off the ice has helped him in any way.
BadgerBruce
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- Aug 8, 2013
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Don Gallinger. Seemed to have a very bright future with the Bruins and was usually a type of co-honoree, alongside Teeder Kennedy, whenever their shared hometown of Port Colborne, ON, broke out the local stars. Just 17 when he debuted in the NHL, also an outstanding ball player who had a tryout with the Red Sox and boasted that he'd take Johnny Pesky's shortstop job. News reports at the time suggested he was indeed quite something on the diamond.
All fell apart in 1948 when his gambling activities (often with Billy Taylor) were verified. Betting on his own team to lose ...wiretaps confirming the sordid business.
All fell apart in 1948 when his gambling activities (often with Billy Taylor) were verified. Betting on his own team to lose ...wiretaps confirming the sordid business.
Big Phil
Registered User
- Nov 2, 2003
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I had to laugh at that description, both of them.
I don't know, I think the 700+ goals thing was pretty iconic, and still is. This isn't one of those things like 1,000 points that has lost its luster after all these years. I think he's in regardless. But a good man all around, so it didn't hurt him.
I thought more of him with that stuff too. Dang. The guy is nice and polite and good to children and he has to be a Hab! Ugh. Nah, it's alright, off the ice or in an interview he's hard to dislike. On the ice he's a shift disturber and you wait for the moment when he comes out in the media and says something hotheaded but it never happens. As a Leaf fan I'd like nothing more, but I think PK is the real deal.
I get the feeling that while both are in the HHOF now those two incidents are what kept them waiting so long. Dino's stick swinging incident against Luke Richardson probably hurt more though. The thing with Dino's indecent exposure is that it wasn't what we think. He didn't flash some kids at the park or anything, he just walked out to get his morning newspaper (or something) and his housecoat was more revealing that it should have been. I mean, really? Heck, there is a reason I take my garbage out at night time when no one is awake.
Glenn Anderson is another name that comes to mind who waited longer than he should have and would have had he not been such a party animal off the ice.
Had to look up Damphousse's thing. Sort of forgot about it. He'd been out of the league for so long at that time.
Okay, what about Bobby Hull? Over the years we've learned the nasty things his wife accused him about, true or not. Yet, this is a guy who is the most cordial and genuine to the fans that I have seen. So in a way things have helped and hurt him.
How about Terry Sawchuk? His personality didn't help him. An interesting story from his old pal Marcel Pronovost:
"We're playing in Toronto and the puck goes over the glass and hits this kid in the nose and breaks his nose into smithereens. The kid comes into the dressing room and Terry gives him his goalie stick. He looks at me after the kid leaves and says 'Now Marcel you don't go and tell anybody about this.' He didn't want people to think he was a nice guy because that's how he got rid of people around him by being obnoxious because he was self-conscious."
Zegras Zebra
Registered User
Lindros was the first person I thought of when reading this forum. Being a dick is probably the only reason he isn't in the HHOF yet.
Theo Fleury's off ice issues definitely hurt him with HHOF voters, even though it is obvious now that his career is over that they were due to his experiences with Graham James. Still his alcoholic, drug induced behaviour often in sketchy locations such as at strip clubs or in appartment blocks in bad areas of Chicago during his playing days will potentially keep him out of the hall of fame. Although we should commend Theo for getting sober, and making the public aware about his abuse through his book and speaking tours, and talking openly about his behavioural issues and their sources. He should also get praise for getting more victims to talk about their abuse, getting help, and putting their abusers behind bars. Personally I feel that SHOULD help his hockey legacy, but to a lot of people who matter it hurts his legacy overall.
Theo Fleury's off ice issues definitely hurt him with HHOF voters, even though it is obvious now that his career is over that they were due to his experiences with Graham James. Still his alcoholic, drug induced behaviour often in sketchy locations such as at strip clubs or in appartment blocks in bad areas of Chicago during his playing days will potentially keep him out of the hall of fame. Although we should commend Theo for getting sober, and making the public aware about his abuse through his book and speaking tours, and talking openly about his behavioural issues and their sources. He should also get praise for getting more victims to talk about their abuse, getting help, and putting their abusers behind bars. Personally I feel that SHOULD help his hockey legacy, but to a lot of people who matter it hurts his legacy overall.
The Panther
Registered User
I've voiced my opinion on Theo Fleury before on a thread about him, but I'll just share it again: I DON'T think his off-ice antics during his career are necessarily keeping him out of the Hall. If he had come clean about the antics (as he did), done public appearances to share his experiences (as he did), openly discussed his abuse (as he did), AND OTHERWISE KEPT HIS MOUTH SHUT ABOUT HIS GRIEVANCES WITH VARIOUS PEOPLE, I think he might now be entering the Hall. However, if you look at Fleury's book (and some interviews promoting it), he basically discusses every important teammate or coach he had... and then throws 90% of them under the bus. Glen Sather is a fool, Pierre Page is the worst coach ever, etc., etc.
I suspect that sort of stuff is going to keep him out. People love somebody coming clean, and they love a Robert Downey Jr.-type player changing his stripes and going straight... but they do not love a guy who appears to be using his (worthy) "cause" as a platform to slam every person he played with and for.
I suspect that sort of stuff is going to keep him out. People love somebody coming clean, and they love a Robert Downey Jr.-type player changing his stripes and going straight... but they do not love a guy who appears to be using his (worthy) "cause" as a platform to slam every person he played with and for.
The Pale King
Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
I'm really not sure that Bure's mob connections were entirely his own doing. Those aren't guys you want to cross while you still have friends and family back home, in harms way. Those smiling pictures of Bure with Kikalichvili look bad, but those guys want to be your friend first, and **** you later. A bit like J. Edgar Hoover and Sinatra and company perhaps.
And I've really mellowed in my dislike of Lindros over the years. Sure, he was entitled and entirely unlikable when he came into the league, but he wasn't given an opportunity to mature and put that behind him like Mario was. Clarke being just as much of a child in a lot of ways as Lindros was, at that point in time. Two too stubborn, petty men who ended up throwing away a great opportunity largely out of spite. Clarke seems to me at that point in time like a man just maddened by coming so close to winning the Cup as an executive, and losing it a bit not knowing what to fix, who to change. Went "a bit goofy on us," to flip his words about Roger Neilsen back at him. Tons of coaching changes, first round losses etc.
"We didn't tell him to go get cancer." Hey now, speaking of guys who tarnished their legacy with off-ice behavior...
And I've really mellowed in my dislike of Lindros over the years. Sure, he was entitled and entirely unlikable when he came into the league, but he wasn't given an opportunity to mature and put that behind him like Mario was. Clarke being just as much of a child in a lot of ways as Lindros was, at that point in time. Two too stubborn, petty men who ended up throwing away a great opportunity largely out of spite. Clarke seems to me at that point in time like a man just maddened by coming so close to winning the Cup as an executive, and losing it a bit not knowing what to fix, who to change. Went "a bit goofy on us," to flip his words about Roger Neilsen back at him. Tons of coaching changes, first round losses etc.
"We didn't tell him to go get cancer." Hey now, speaking of guys who tarnished their legacy with off-ice behavior...
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The Panther
Registered User
God, that was awful.
I mean, with Clarkey, you've got the on-ice incidents (Kharlamov leg assault to help win the Summit Series for Canada) and the off-ice incidents (blaming Neilson for getting cancer).
Clarke retired before I started watching hockey, but those two incidents alone have always made me think he was an a**hole.
Sedins - generally just extremely generous and kind people. Charitable donations, taking time for fans, etc. Early in their careers they were often criticised by Canucks fans for their lack of production and ability to lead the team. Then they did that, but other teams' fans constantly mocked them as aliens, sisters, etc. Now, as they near the ends of their careers, I generally only see positive comments from other fans about them, partially as they've come to realise what great people they are off the ice.
Luongo - highly vilified after 2011 by everyone. His attitude never became surly or spiteful despite the extreme flack he took, and he supported Schneider as the two battled for the starter position. He was humble and self-deprecating. In addition, the revelation that he was 'Strombone' on Twitter won over a lot of fans for its similarly self-deprecating humour. By the time a decision was needed on the goalie controversy, nearly as many Nucks fans wanted him to stay as did Schneider (and insisted they had always supported him even during the tough times...which only a few of us ever actually did.)
Maybe not the 'biggest' names compared to Lindros et al, but certainly fit the criteria.
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
Hobey Baker went and got himself killed in WWI (actually, the war was over, but he delayed returning to America as per orders because he wanted one more flight. So, up he went in a repaired plane needing testing and he crashed in it.) If he hadn't, no one outside of some NCAA teams would have ever heard of him. Instead, he's now a HHOFer and will never be forgotten. How's that for a legacy based on what happened off the ice!
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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That's probably a bit of an exaggeration. Baker had already quit hockey when he died. He was not only a terrific player but also a widely popular figure on a big scene, New York City.
If any off-ice behavior helped Hobey it was his friendly manners & movie star looks, not that he died in a plane crash. Dying in a plane crash is hardly behavioural.
The Panther
Registered User
Gimme a break! The guy was all-class for 15 years, and then he has one contract dispute shortly before retirement and he "killed his image"? Is it not possible that he was going to leave Tampa, regardless of what happened with the Olympic team (which he, in fact, ended up on)?
St.Louis is, and deserves to be remembered as, one of the all-time class players in NHL history.
While I know it's not popular opinion, I'm going to disagree with you on Lanny McDonald.
Tiger and Lanny were best buddies; after Tiger was asked to shadow him in their '82 opening round series (McDonald had a single assist in the series as his Flames got swept), McDonald whined about Tiger crossing the line, and how he could no longer be his friend.
By 80's hockey standards I thought that was a really [bad] move by McDonald. You choked and got outperformed by the guy lining up across from you. Get over it.
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Neil Hamburger
Five Bagger!
Bill Barilko (ps. it sucks about Gord):
Not exactly his behaviour, but I think it should be in this thread.
Not exactly his behaviour, but I think it should be in this thread.
Zegras Zebra
Registered User
You make a good point, Fleury did air his grievances with a number of former players and coaches in his book. The one that stood out the most to me was his criticism of Mike Keenan generally bulling 3rd/ 4th line players even though it probably was extremely true. His dislike for most of his European teammates, being forced to play in unfavourable defensive/ offensive systems, questioning the managerial competence when Calgary traded Doug Gilmour, and whining about playing on the second PP unit in New York behind Mark Messier are other examples I can think of at the top of my head.
vadim sharifijanov
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- Oct 10, 2007
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re fleury, the reason he isn't in yet is because the people involved are still alive. i'm not talking about graham james, i'm talking about various other aiders, abetters, and blind eye-turners up and down the ranks of canadian minor and junior hockey. if fleury were to be inducted today, tomorrow there would be a million articles over the next months up to induction week about the things that happened to him. and if you don't think that is an an embarassment to hockey canada that the old boys club will help prevent, then you don't know the old boys club.
but someday, fleury will get in. even if his on-ice case is borderline, his notoriety and inspirational story make him a slam dunk.
so for the purposes of this thread, off ice circumstances hurt him in the short term, but will help him in the long run.
but someday, fleury will get in. even if his on-ice case is borderline, his notoriety and inspirational story make him a slam dunk.
so for the purposes of this thread, off ice circumstances hurt him in the short term, but will help him in the long run.
Big Phil
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I think at the time it looked bad on him. There were two guys who had limited playing time and one was St. Louis and the other was Subban. There was a big difference in their attitudes and I am pretty sure most of us would have guessed Subban as the more entitled one right? Well, we were wrong. St. Louis is the reigning Art Ross winner and Subban is the reigning Norris winner and both deserved more ice time I think. Subban seemed to take it in stride and had a happy go lucky attitude about it by the looks of it, even getting right close to Toews and Crosby smiling ear to ear for the gold medal picture. St. Louis seemed more upset about it more so that his own GM in Tampa (Yzerman) didn't initially pick him.
We saw the same thing in Toronto with Joseph in 2002 after Quinn replaced him with Brodeur in the Olympics. I mean, check your ego at the door on those teams, you are all stars.
To Roger Neilson's credit, he never had any ill will towards Clarke, even considered him a friend right up until the end of his life. You never heard him talk bad about him. How many of us could say that, especially about Clarke?
Fleury at the end of his career did make some enemies, or at least rub people the wrong way. But he's right about this one though. After 1989 Calgary was a colossal mess internally.
Big Phil
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Interesting. So you think they would prefer that things don't get brought up again about how a junior coach could abuse his power against a guy for so long without anyone helping him? I am not an expert in sexual abuse, but I will say that these guys are master manipulators. It wasn't as if Graham James was doing this stuff out in the open. He was Fleury's coach, among other boys. Nobody, including the parents or boarders would bat an eyelash if a coach is hanging around his players in a chummy way. I am not saying there aren't those that were "in the know" about this that could have helped (Penn State is an example) but to think that everyone around James or Fleury should have seen what was happening is really underrating the genius that is a man like James. Think about Ariel Castro in Cleveland holding three girls captive in his own home for a decade. How does a next door neighbour not know this? Would you know your neighbour is doing this? I wouldn't. It isn't as if these guys aren't masters at hiding things.
That being said you really think that's the reason Fleury is being kept out, just to maintain the image of junior hockey?
sr edler
gold is not reality
- Mar 20, 2010
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He whined on that Omark penalty shot too though.
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