Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 3-1!

[BAM]

McDavid is truly terrible defensively. He doesn't even bother skating back.

I agree, but I also feel like that's a result of playing on a shit team like the Oilers. I wonder how his defensive game would look if he was on a team that didn't need him to go MVP mode or cheat for offence just to barely make the playoffs.

I feel like McDavid is talented enough where he could still be a 100+ point C even with a much more improved defensive game.

 

[The Podium]

I think you just made that up. Is there any evidence of such a fit being thrown by Matthews?

It was speculation after Matthews private meeting with Babcock. The lines were scrambled after so everyone assumed it was regarding his linemates, but it could very well have been anything.

 

[zeke]

I agree, but I also feel like that's a result of playing on a shit team like the Oilers. I wonder how his defensive game would look if he was on a team that didn't need him to go MVP mode or cheat for offence just to barely make the playoffs.

I feel like McDavid is talented enough where he could still be a 100+ point C even with a much more improved defensive game.

Maybe.

Thing is his first couple years he was actually solid defensively along with being otherworldly offensively.

Nowadays he's godawful defensively and not even as great offensively as he used to be.

 

[BAM]

Maybe.

Thing is his first couple years he was actually solid defensively along with being otherworldly offensively.

Nowadays he's godawful defensively and not even as great offensively as he used to be.

I think on a team with established centers (Pens, Caps, Leafs, Bolts) McDavid would be best served on the wing. Less responsibility and it's probably more suitable for the style of play he likes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

It's not all on him, but he built this team this is HIS team if it fails again I don't think it's out of realm of possibility he's out of a job, if it succeeds his job is secure

Agreed. An interesting question - what would be considered success this season? It's not black and white obviously so maybe it's not fair to say we need to win at least 2 rounds this time around but on the other hand, win one round and out in the 2nd certainly seems like failure at this moment in time considering the divisions and the playoff structure.

 

[zeke]

Agreed. An interesting question - what would be considered success this season? It's not black and white obviously so maybe it's not fair to say we need to win at least 2 rounds this time around but on the other hand, win one round and out in the 2nd certainly seems like failure at this moment in time considering the divisions and the playoff structure.

Beating the likes of wpg and edm in the playoffs wouldn't be any greater success than losing in 7gms to Boston was.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Agreed. An interesting question - what would be considered success this season? It's not black and white obviously so maybe it's not fair to say we need to win at least 2 rounds this time around but on the other hand, win one round and out in the 2nd certainly seems like failure at this moment in time considering the divisions and the playoff structure.

I would say 2 rounds because there is no Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston or Philadelphia in the way, Calgary is probably the toughest competition.

This is a golden opportunity round 1 won't cut it and I'm not sure round 2 does either

 

[Leaf Fans]

It was speculation after Matthews private meeting with Babcock. The lines were scrambled after so everyone assumed it was regarding his linemates, but it could very well have been anything.

So, he could have suggested that he an Marner would have good chemistry together. No evidence of any fits.

 

[Nineteen67]

I don't care what kind of cap magic we need pull, but this team needs to re-sign Hyman at all costs.

Not at all cost, but he needs to be re-signed.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Beating the likes of wpg and edm in the playoffs wouldn't be any greater success than losing in 7gms to Boston was.

So what would you need for the season to be a success? Make the finals? Or would only winning the cup be enough?

I would say 2 rounds because there is no Tampa, Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston or Philadelphia in the way, Calgary is probably the toughest competition.

This is a golden opportunity round 1 won't cut it and I'm not sure round 2 does either

Yeah I'm not sure either. Oh well, first have to make the playoffs, hope we're relatively healthy when we get there and then we'll see.

Not at all cost, but he needs to be re-signed.

Yeah I was thinking about this last night. We really need Hyman badly but can we afford to pay him what he's worth without a roster shakeup? I really hope he's willing to take a discount but with our big stars not being willing to do so, can't really expect him to do so either. Losing him, man I don't even want to think about what a huge blow that would be.

 

[zeke]

So what would you need for the season to be a success? Make the finals? Or would only winning the cup be enough?

In terms of winning and losing, then yes, only a cup is success.

If they don't do that, I will judge how well they did otherwise on the quality of their play compared to the other teams.

 

[Marshy]

I hate to bash on Simmonds but man he shouldn't be playing every game at all

He won't be. Look at his HockeyDB page.

 

[Alerion]

Keefe is knowingly sacrificing a little on the top 2 lines with the hopes than the Big 4 can each carry a depth winger, so that he can load up on that shutdown 3rd line. Obviously the top 6 is better with 2 of Hyman/Kerfoot/Mikheyev in it, but then the Leafs run into the top heavy problem they had last year. I like this depth approach so long as Thornton and Vesey don't get overplayed, but the coaching staff has done a nice job of getting Hyman his minutes.

 

[Gary Nylund]

In terms of winning and losing, then yes, only a cup is success.

If they don't do that, I will judge how well they did otherwise on the quality of their play compared to the other teams.

You're probably in a small minority if that's the case as I suspect most people are tired of trying to find excuses and reasons not to be disappointed with losing year after year. At some point you have to stop making excuses and start winning. It's one thing to lose one PO series but when the losses start to pile up, excuses start to ring more and more hollow.

 

[BAM]

You're probably in a small minority if that's the case as I suspect most people are tired of trying to find excuses and reasons not to be disappointed with losing year after year. At some point you have to stop making excuses and start winning. It's one thing to lose one PO series but when the losses start to pile up, excuses start to ring more and more hollow.

I think what Zeke is saying is that the Leafs previous playoff opponents (Caps, Bruins x 2) were light years ahead in terms of difficulty with respect to the Canadian teams. I expect the Leafs to come out of this mediocre division but I wouldn't see it as more impressive than losing to the Bruins in game 7 x 2 and losing in 6 to the President's trophy winning Caps during the rookie years of the big 3. Those teams were stacked/won cups/long history of elite play. There is no team in this Canadian division that is even close to pushing the Leafs like those teams were.

 

[al secord]

My heart could use many more of these comfortable victories. Even at 2-1, there was no sense of panic. No reason to panic.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think what Zeke is saying is that the Leafs previous playoff opponents (Caps, Bruins x 2) were light years ahead in terms of difficulty with respect to the Canadian teams. I expect the Leafs to come out of this mediocre division but I wouldn't see it as more impressive than losing to the Bruins in game 7 x 2 and losing in 6 to the President's trophy winning Caps during the rookie years of the big 3. Those teams were stacked/won cups/long history of elite play. There is no team in this Canadian division that is even close to pushing the Leafs like those teams were.

Here's another way of looking at it. With all due respect to Boston, we were also a very good team and according to the bookies IIRC, we had better than a 40% shot at beating them both times. Then, we were favoured to beat CLB so what were the odds of us losing 3 out of 3? You can do the math but I'd say it's less than 15% and adding the loss to WSH making it 4 out of 4 it becomes less than 10%.

Assume we win our division, we'll still be at best 3-2 favourites vs the teams we'll play so the odds of winning twice is less than 50%, more like 36% so yes, it would be more of an accomplishment then losing to Boston no matter how many games it takes.

Taking a team to 7 games as opposed to say 5 games is nowhere close to being the accomplishment that some people seems to think, at least IMHO. It's one thing to lose game 5, or game 6 but another thing entirely to lose game 7 and when it was all on the line, Boston just crushed us.

It's a big boys league and you don't get anything for making it close. You either win, or you don't. And it's time for us to win!

 

[The Podium]

I think on a team with established centers (Pens, Caps, Leafs, Bolts) McDavid would be best served on the wing. Less responsibility and it's probably more suitable for the style of play he likes.

I think his speed through the neutral zone is his greatest asset and that would require him to switch position in the Ozone. Defensively though I agree. Cant ever imagine McDavid having the defensive game as polished as Crosby for example.

Keefe is knowingly sacrificing a little on the top 2 lines with the hopes than the Big 4 can each carry a depth winger, so that he can load up on that shutdown 3rd line. Obviously the top 6 is better with 2 of Hyman/Kerfoot/Mikheyev in it, but then the Leafs run into the top heavy problem they had last year. I like this depth approach so long as Thornton and Vesey don't get overplayed, but the coaching staff has done a nice job of getting Hyman his minutes.

I actually really like how that 3rd line has played. The offence isnt there, and may never be, but they seem to maintain offensive pressure and cycle well until the lines change and the big boys get a shift against a tired D.

 

[BAM]

Here's another way of looking at it. With all due respect to Boston, we were also a very good team and according to the bookies IIRC, we had better than a 40% shot at beating them both times. Then, we were favoured to beat CLB so what were the odds of us losing 3 out of 3? You can do the math but I'd say it's less than 15% and adding the loss to WSH making it 4 out of 4 it becomes less than 10%.

Assume we win our division, we'll still be at best 3-2 favourites vs the teams we'll play so the odds of winning twice is less than 50%, more like 36% so yes, it would be more of an accomplishment then losing to Boston no matter how many games it takes.

Taking a team to 7 games as opposed to say 5 games is nowhere close to being the accomplishment that some people seems to think, at least IMHO. It's one thing to lose game 5, or game 6 but another thing entirely to lose game 7 and when it was all on the line, Boston just crushed us.

It's a big boys league and you don't get anything for making it close. You either win, or you don't. And it's time for us to win!

Caps beat the Leafs in OT of game 6, IIRC 5 of the 6 games in that series was decided in OT

Bruins vs Leafs in year 2 of big 3 was not a game 7 blowout, the Leafs had the lead going into the 3rd period

Bruins vs Leafs in year 3 of big 3 was when game 7 was a blowout

All 3 series, the Leafs were massive underdogs. The Caps were the odds on favourite to win the cup the year the Leafs played them, the Bruins made the finals losing in game 7 the 2nd time the Leafs young core played them.

The Jackets series is the only one where the Leafs were favoured and they lost in game 5.

Ovechkin took over a decade to make it out of the 2nd round. Hedman and Stamkos won their 1st cup a decade after being drafted. This is the beginning of year 5 for Matthews and Marner.

If you've ever played any sport you'd know there's a big difference between a team pushing you to 7 games vs a team you can put away in 5. idk what you're on about with that.

 

[Mess]

Leafs are playing a more structured game this season. allowing for less high danger chances surrendered than in past seasons.

 

[Nineteen67]

Holl isn't as bad as people say, but this Holl is very much a byproduct of playing with Muzzin.

Ideally Liljegren slides into that spot if Holl is taken by Seattle. I think a year or two with Muzzin would be extremely helpful for his transition to the league.

Let’s hope they can protect a proven player like Holl, rather than relying on the hope that Liljegren can actually play in the NHL.

 

[zeke]

You're probably in a small minority if that's the case as I suspect most people are tired of trying to find excuses and reasons not to be disappointed with losing year after year. At some point you have to stop making excuses and start winning. It's one thing to lose one PO series but when the losses start to pile up, excuses start to ring more and more hollow.

If the majority thinks they would be any happier now if the leafs had won a couple series against bad teams or if their goalies had stolen a series or two than they are after they lost tight series to elite teams or teams whose goalies stole series for them, then im glad to be in the minority.

Sometimes I have to remind myself that Toronto worships undertalented plucky teams like the early 90s leafs cuz of a couple unlikely playoffs runs, while forgetting that it was the young skilled soft team that they beat in the early rounds that was the team set up for a decade+ of elite dynasty hockey, not those leafs.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Let’s hope they can protect a proven player like Holl, rather than relying on the hope that Liljegren can actually play in the NHL.

Liljegren wasn't too far off the season Jake Bean had as AHL defensemen of the year last year, was a year younger and his season was comparable to Shea Theodore's age 20 season. He's a really good RHD prospect with top 4 upside. At some point you have to give these guys a shot (Sandin too).

The idea would be to actually give him support with a guy like Muzzin rather than the Marincin's and Rosen's of the world.

 

[zeke]

Leafs are playing a more structured game this season. allowing for less high danger chances surrendered than in past seasons.

Same as they did under Keefe last year.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think his speed through the neutral zone is his greatest asset and that would require him to switch position in the Ozone. Defensively though I agree. Cant ever imagine McDavid having the defensive game as polished as Crosby for example.

I actually really like how that 3rd line has played. The offence isnt there, and may never be, but they seem to maintain offensive pressure and cycle well until the lines change and the big boys get a shift against a tired D.

I do too.

Caps beat the Leafs in OT of game 6, IIRC 5 of the 6 games in that series was decided in OT

Bruins vs Leafs in year 2 of big 3 was not a game 7 blowout, the Leafs had the lead going into the 3rd period

Bruins vs Leafs in year 3 of big 3 was when game 7 was a blowout

And we got blown out losing the 3rd period 4-0. Like I said, when push came to shove Boston completely crushed us.

One game 7 we lost by 3 goals, the other we lost by 4 goals. You really have to spin hard to argue we didn't get blown out.

All 3 series, the Leafs were massive underdogs. The Caps were the odds on favourite to win the cup the year the Leafs played them, the Bruins made the finals losing in game 7 the 2nd time the Leafs young core played them.

The Jackets series is the only one where the Leafs were favoured and they lost in game 5.

Ovechkin took over a decade to make it out of the 2nd round. Hedman and Stamkos won their 1st cup a decade after being drafted. This is the beginning of year 5 for Matthews and Marner.

If you've ever played any sport you'd know there's a big difference between a team pushing you to 7 games vs a team you can put away in 5. idk what you're on about with that.

We were underdogs against Boston but not massive underdogs, that's just wrong.

Who cares about Ovechkin? Funny how a few years ago we were comparing ourselves to Chicago expecting multiple cups and expecting it to start happening soon and now were comparing ourselves to a team that as you say, took over a decade to make it out of the 2nd round. Well not funny, it's sad actually.

I've played plenty of sports and I've never made so many excuses for losing the way some people here do. You lose, you lose, period. You accept that you failed and you do your best to do better next time. And you make damn sure that you're as "engaged" as can possibly be when you get your next shot at success (I'm looking at you Mitch "money" Marner).