Post-Game Talk: Leafs win 3-1!

[AvroArrow]

lmao typical of the jets. Salty you get slapped, guy really tried his best to hit Marner after the empty netter lol, what is Scheifele doing ? I get you're upset you got out-classed but trying to start a fight after a loss, take the L and go home.

 

[francis246]

Not true.

yes it is true, and it was reported by TSN. That was one of the main reasons why Babcock went to Arizona.

 

[francis246]

I think you just made that up. Is there any evidence of such a fit being thrown by Matthews?

"throwing a fit" is a bit of an exaggeration, but it was a complaint, he wanted to play with Marner two years ago and it didn't happen. That is why the summer before Babcock was fired, he flew out to Arizona. One of the concerns Matthews voiced was lack of play time in key moments and the fact that he felt he didn't get a chance to play with Marner enough.

 

[zeke]

A displeasing number of Leaf fans seem to think Lily's development has been substandard. I don't know why.

2 things, really:

1. He is the rare prospect who was allowed to playfulltime in the AHL at age 18, when most prospects aren't allowed to play there until 2 years later at age 20. So whereas last year should have been his rookie year in the AHL (and a great rookie year at that), most fans just feel that he's a 3rd year AHLer who is stuck and not progressing.

2. Robertson and Sandin have performed insanely well as teenage non-elite draft picks, distorting the timeline for a normal prospect like Lilly.

 

[zeke]

he literally met with Babcock about this topic.

Babcock was an idiot and an a-hole for literally never even trying Marner with Matthews for over THREE SEASONS.

never even TRYING his two best offensive players together. for over THREE SEASONS.

insane.

 

[Cor]

Watching that Pionk-Marner thing again, Pionk is lucky he didn't break his own leg on that play.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I was tempted to do up a tread on this but I’m not goung to get to worked up about it yet until teams are all 10 games in or so but...
We have the largest discrepancy in the league for penalty minutes. It’s a full 4 minutes per game average disadvantage to us so far. I think it’s sketchy/shady.
We have the third most penalties in the league and we know full well some of the runs and hacks and cheap shots we have seen not called against us. I’m watching it closely and we did have some dumb infractions against us. It’s concerning nonetheless.
All our penalties should be fighting,roughing,cross checking,charging and instigating from now on. We are gojng to get them anyways.
High sticks,tripping,hooking and interference need to be eliminated from getting caught on. We would be much better served being rotten. That call against Holl last night is never called even,ever. It was a f****** joke..
That’s it for my semi rant leafers.

 

[The Podium]

Kerfoot looks a lot better. I have been a big critic of his in the past (not because I loved Kadri), but he's had a good start to the season.

People couldnt look past the fact that his play dropped off only when he was playing through his broken jaw and was on a liquid diet.

This was the Kerfoot we saw pre and post injury.

 

[dangomon]

Babcock was an idiot and an a-hole for literally never even trying Marner with Matthews for over THREE SEASONS.

never even TRYING his two best offensive players together. for over THREE SEASONS.

insane.

Sadly you're mistaken, Babcock would try them together for a 20 second shift and if they didn't score 9 goals he decided it wasn't working. Repeat this process once every 50 games and say "tried it, didn't look great".

 

[zeke]

I was tempted to do up a tread on this but I’m not goung to get to worked up about it yet until teams are all 10 games in or so but...
We have the largest discrepancy in the league for penalty minutes. It’s a full 4 minutes per game average disadvantage to us so far. I think it’s sketchy/shady.
We have the third most penalties in the league and we know full well some of the runs and hacks and cheap shots we have seen not called against us. I’m watching it closely and we did have some dumb infractions against us. It’s concerning nonetheless.
All our penalties should be fighting,roughing,cross checking,charging and instigating from now on. We are gojng to get them anyways.
High sticks,tripping,hooking and interference need to be eliminated from getting caught on. We would be much better served being rotten. That call against Holl last night is never called even,ever. It was a f****** joke..
That’s it for my semi rant leafers.

yeah its a joke that the leafs can dominate play like they did last night and somehow the other team out-PPs us 4-1.

absolute BS.

 

[meefer]

Thoughts after a glorious sleep;

- That was a game Freddy needed. He made the difficult saves when tested. The second period goal was deflating, but very strong otherwise. Now 10-0-2 lifetime against the Jets lol.

- Brodie continues to impressive. Dude just knows how to break up plays defensively.

- Jimmy Vesey might be the value signing of the off-season. He looks incredibly comfortable with Tavares and Nylander. That line dominated last night.

- Another strong night for the top line. Some of us perhaps jumped the gun in terms of wanting Thornton moved off there.

- Muzzin-Holl continue to be strong. Justin Holl is at a 71% xGF at even Strength so far lol. Muzzin at 60%. Which are insane numbers given they start in the offensive zone less than 10% of the time.

- Glad Kerfoot is off to a strong start. His base cf% and xGF% are below 50%, but he's started in the offensive zone just 1% of his shifts, and that Hyman-Kerfoot-Mikheyev line starts in the defensive zone faceoffs the most by far. I have really really enjoyed this third line, and while everyone is jumping at Hyman getting back into the top 6, this third line has shown it's value already through the first 4 games, by playing those defensive zone starts very well, allowing the top 6 more offensive zone starts.

- The Leafs Penalty Kill has looked dynamite to start the year. Adding Bogosian, Brodie, Vesey, to the mix, as well as Matthews playing some minutes, is paying off so far. Hopefully it continues.

All good, Cor, but do you see a need for, or improvement from:

*Vesey, hasn't hurt but hasn't contributed. While I'd say his best game, still not effective. Can he give more?
*"That was a game the 'team' needed. Do we see a more confident group in the D zone after this game from Fred?
*Why have you enjoyed the 3rd?
*Where do you think Matthews levels out? I'd think around 30"/penalty this year, with Spezza around 10/15. On and off for JS, and lets see what happens with AM.

 

[zeke]

Sadly you're mistaken, Babcock would try them together for a 20 second shift and if they didn't score 9 goals he decided it wasn't working. Repeat this process once every 50 games and say "tried it, didn't look great".

yep, my mistake!

 

[All Mod Cons]

Awesome.

Jets are fairly crap.

Looks like it'll be the 3 good teams and then a chase to 4th.

 

[Advanced stats]

yes it is true, and it was reported by TSN. That was one of the main reasons why Babcock went to Arizona.

I can't find a tsn link anywhere. I'm fairly sure that's all speculation at best

 

[ottomaddox]

People couldnt look past the fact that his play dropped off only when he was playing through his broken jaw and was on a liquid diet.

This was the Kerfoot we saw pre and post injury.

I didn't have a lot to go on. I wasn't watching Kerfoot on The Avs, so I didn't know what to expect. I think that if his jaw affected him that much then Dubas should have put another C there in his place. Anyway, last year is behind us now.

 

[meefer]

2 things, really:

1. He is the rare prospect who was allowed to playfulltime in the AHL at age 18, when most prospects aren't allowed to play there until 2 years later at age 20. So whereas last year should have been his rookie year in the AHL (and a great rookie year at that), most fans just feel that he's a 3rd year AHLer who is stuck and not progressing.

2. Robertson and Sandin have performed insanely well as teenage non-elite draft picks, distorting the timeline for a normal prospect like Lilly.

Darn you, I agree with both points, which simply sets me up for angry comments which suggest Lily has failed to meet expectations. Outside of your enjoyment of stats, you have to admit, TL can pass the puck!

 

[zeke]

Darn you, I agree with both points, which simply sets me up for angry comments which suggest Lily has failed to meet expectations. Outside of your enjoyment of stats, you have to admit, TL can pass the puck!

He can also skate the puck out effortlessly - and he's turned himself into a bull physically, too. Very hard to knock off the puck. I still see Stralman upside here.

 

[francis246]

I can't find a tsn link anywhere. I'm fairly sure that's all speculation at best

Matthews denies rift with Babcock, wants to play with Marner more

Matthews, Marner will 'probably' see shifts together but Mike Babcock not sold on combination - TSN.ca

again I said, threw a fit was a bit of an exaggeration. He never threw a fit publicly but I do believe it was a big point of contention behind the scenes

 

[francis246]

Babcock was an idiot and an a-hole for literally never even trying Marner with Matthews for over THREE SEASONS.

never even TRYING his two best offensive players together. for over THREE SEASONS.

insane.

The season that Tavares came, I'm sorry but I wouldn't even break up that line. It was money. Also at that point in time, they were not nearly the complete players they are now. They did not give two shits about defense and when he did try it, they were not good together.

Babcock's reasonings were fair, he wanted to throw a different look at opposing team's defense's. Which made sense. You had Matthews/Nylander, JT/Marner, Kadri/Johnsson or whatever combination was on the third line coming at you. That is tough to deal with on a nightly basis. Which defenseman are you gonna have against Matthews? or JT/Marner or Kadri. It's a match up nightmare and it worked out in their favour offensively. Too bad our defense was garbo

Babcock wasn't the best coach, but people honestly hate on him a lot even though he tried his best to deal with a group of self-entitled young players who at that time were not committed to playing a complete game of hockey. He deserves credit for getting what he did get out of those guys for 2 and a half years.

 

[meefer]

He can also skate the puck out effortlessly - and he's turned himself into a bull physically, too. Very hard to knock off the puck. I still see Stralman upside here.

I'd say we're looking at similar potential here. My concern with TL was best expressed by another poster (not specific to TL) whose name I forget, who suggested that one of the great failings of the Leafs has been their inability to graduate defensive talent. I like Justin Holl. I'd bold that but some think that to be rude. I'd like to see Timothy Liljegren paired with J Muzz, while moving JH down to the 3rd. Once TL finds his balance, I think JM and TL offer similar to JM and JH, and JH with Travis or Lehtonen is a heck of a 3rd pair.

 

[IPS]

Keefe is knowingly sacrificing a little on the top 2 lines with the hopes than the Big 4 can each carry a depth winger, so that he can load up on that shutdown 3rd line. Obviously the top 6 is better with 2 of Hyman/Kerfoot/Mikheyev in it, but then the Leafs run into the top heavy problem they had last year. I like this depth approach so long as Thornton and Vesey don't get overplayed, but the coaching staff has done a nice job of getting Hyman his minutes.

Yeah Hyman does everything. PK, PP, and now he's on a 3rd line that's starting the majority of their shifts in the defensive zone. I used to hate on him so much but the improvements he's made is incredible, and he's 28. Players rarely make those kinds of strides on the other side of 25.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The season that Tavares came, I'm sorry but I wouldn't even break up that line. It was money. Also at that point in time, they were not nearly the complete players they are now. They did not give two shits about defense and when he did try it, they were not good together.

Babcock's reasonings were fair, he wanted to throw a different look at opposing team's defense's. Which made sense. You had Matthews/Nylander, JT/Marner, Kadri/Johnsson or whatever combination was on the third line coming at you. That is tough to deal with on a nightly basis. Which defenseman are you gonna have against Matthews? or JT/Marner or Kadri. It's a match up nightmare and it worked out in their favour offensively. Too bad our defense was garbo

Babcock wasn't the best coach, but people honestly hate on him a lot even though he tried his best to deal with a group of self-entitled young players who at that time were not committed to playing a complete game of hockey. He deserves credit for getting what he did get out of those guys for 2 and a half years.

Yeah without getting into line combos and other specifics, I have to admit that despite how much I hated Babcock near the end (and he did so many things that were just terrible), he wasn't all bad and he was really good at the beginning. My favourite year was his first, our record was obviously terrible but we played with structure that we hadn't seen in many years, it was easy to predict that good things were in our future.

 

[Cor]

All good, Cor, but do you see a need for, or improvement from:

*Vesey, hasn't hurt but hasn't contributed. While I'd say his best game, still not effective. Can he give more?
*"That was a game the 'team' needed. Do we see a more confident group in the D zone after this game from Fred?
*Why have you enjoyed the 3rd?
*Where do you think Matthews levels out? I'd think around 30"/penalty this year, with Spezza around 10/15. On and off for JS, and lets see what happens with AM.

- Vesey's contribution isn't about the scoresheet. His job is to help that line maintain a level of possession of the puck, so that Tavares and Nylander can do their contributions on the scoresheet. So far, both things are happening. I am not really concerned if Vesey gets a secondary assist or not.

- Sure, the team needed that game too, but confidence is about 90% of the battle for goalies. Freddy needed that game.

- I mean, as I said, that third line is taking the most defensive zone starts and faceoffs with good results. It's allowing our top 6 to start in the offensive zone more.

- What do you mean by levels out? In terms of penalty kill time? I believe Keefe said Matthews will take reps there. So he's not going to be a main focus or anything. It's finally nice seeing Spezza, Matthews, Kerfoot all taking faceoffs on the penalty kill, instead of wingers.

 

[Joey Hoser]

The season that Tavares came, I'm sorry but I wouldn't even break up that line. It was money. Also at that point in time, they were not nearly the complete players they are now. They did not give two shits about defense and when he did try it, they were not good together.

Babcock's reasonings were fair, he wanted to throw a different look at opposing team's defense's. Which made sense. You had Matthews/Nylander, JT/Marner, Kadri/Johnsson or whatever combination was on the third line coming at you. That is tough to deal with on a nightly basis. Which defenseman are you gonna have against Matthews? or JT/Marner or Kadri. It's a match up nightmare and it worked out in their favour offensively. Too bad our defense was garbo

Babcock wasn't the best coach, but people honestly hate on him a lot even though he tried his best to deal with a group of self-entitled young players who at that time were not committed to playing a complete game of hockey. He deserves credit for getting what he did get out of those guys for 2 and a half years.

I don't buy this narrative at all. Even if was true, it's Babcock's job to correct the behavior and "coach" them into it, not just keep their minutes down and play his favorites instead.

 

[zeke]

The season that Tavares came, I'm sorry but I wouldn't even break up that line. It was money. Also at that point in time, they were not nearly the complete players they are now. They did not give two shits about defense and when he did try it, they were not good together.

Babcock's reasonings were fair, he wanted to throw a different look at opposing team's defense's. Which made sense. You had Matthews/Nylander, JT/Marner, Kadri/Johnsson or whatever combination was on the third line coming at you. That is tough to deal with on a nightly basis. Which defenseman are you gonna have against Matthews? or JT/Marner or Kadri. It's a match up nightmare and it worked out in their favour offensively. Too bad our defense was garbo

Babcock wasn't the best coach, but people honestly hate on him a lot even though he tried his best to deal with a group of self-entitled young players who at that time were not committed to playing a complete game of hockey. He deserves credit for getting what he did get out of those guys for 2 and a half years.

THREE YEARS