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Confirmed with Link: Leafs trade Beck, Finn, Gibson, Nilsson and Verhaeghe for Grabner

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Budsfan said:
Frankly that will never happen, TB won't let him walk for nothing and will trade him but as I stated maybe sooner, rather than later and few teams, will make a trade, without a new contract in the offing.
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Stamkos has a NTC so has some control. And if he wants to hit free agency, he is in control of that and there is nothing that anyone can do to prevent it.
 
crump said:
Maybe the 3 on 3 overtime this season was a factor in trying to get him. But still... 5 prospects? So much for patience huh. They weren't blue chip, but it wouldn't be a stretch that at least 3 could bite us in the ass in a few years. I get that they might want to draft their own players, but for an expiring contract, you think maybe 2 like Finn and Gibson could have got it done.
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I get the sense a few of them were throw ins to clear contract spots.
 
Jack Bauer said:
Beck is a bottom 6 guy and Grabner should be a top 6 or 9. They play different games. Hard to compare but clearly both hold little value.

If you really think we're going to use the ECHL for NHL development you're completely missing the boat on what the plan in there.

The ECHL will be used for the Marlies development. If a prospect of ours ends up on the ECHL team then he's really not in the Leafs long term plans. If they end up here...great...but the ECHL will never be used like that because no NHL team has a prospect pool that deep.

To argue that prospects not in our top 10 are worth more then 1 NHL player is hfboard logic that is just severely flawed. How often do teams 15th best prospects make an NHL impact? At best they're injury call ups.
None of what we traded today had that upside. But it certainly opens up space in the organization for others now and in the future who could have higher upside then anyone we moved today.

We're still setting the table here. Lots of moves yet to come and not every trade is about getting maximum value for every asset, sometimes it's about creating space Our goal is for Grabner to score 15 and turn him into a 3rd and 5th that to a Mark Hunter could maybe be a future top 4 NHL defenceman or starting goaltender in 5 years.
or putting people in the way of others to create competition. We accomplished both of those with this deal as we had to move contracts and the ones we moved were on the bottom tier of our 50.
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Bolded...Well considering he has only scored 15 once(16) in the past 4 seasons, and has been put on waivers, that may be a tall task. I am very suspect we will get a 3rd and 5th for Grabner even if he scores 15. Also, Hunter can make a 3rd or 5th rounder into a top 4D or starting goalie? and you find that a reasonable expectation? Personally that would be a dream for me, but not something I would claim as an organization they are hoping for.
 
Faltorvo said:
gee idk finn was our 2nd highest ranked d prospect

carter verh was our 3rd best c prospect

not exactly ranked as chopped liver here.
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I dont think management would agree. Several scouts were fired because the new management didn't like who was drafted. Finn was well down the prospect list and is one of the reasons the scouts were fired. I am surprised that Morrison still has a job with the Leafs
 
Bad Goalie said:
As an outsider looking in, am I the only guy who sees what I see happening here?

I see one guy worrying that Lou is trying to create a win now team at the expense of young prospects. Another isn't thrilled about the value in return. Many feel losing 5 decent prospects will hurt the future.

It is correct. Lou is trying to create a win now team, but with mercenaries filling all the roster spots that are not held by current Leafs who are being given the chance to retain a spot on the future roster. What's wrong with management sending out the message we expect you to play hard our way every game as that is the new Leafs way? Anything less than your best played within our system is unacceptable. The mercenaries, all on 1 year deals, can be traded at the TDL or later. They can be allowed to just walk UFA if need be. Point is they are place holders for the guys this management team has targeted for the future.

Who are the targeted players? They are being groomed on the farm en masse. The prospects traded away will be replaced by even better ones acquired by draft or trade in deals for the mercenaries. In 3-4 years the cream of the Toronto Marlies, combined with the current holdovers like Gardiner and Kadri, and a couple of top UFAs will be the Toronto Maple Leafs.

Every current Leaf and every current prospect who fails to live up to the construct will be gone. They are carefully targeting the undrafted pool as well as the young ones in the league, minors, and Europe for just the right guys to be added to the current mix. They have no time to see if guys drafted 2-3 years ago might make it. They'll take the risk that goes with moving them for guys with higher potential. Guys that progress like Nylander and others already doing so with the Marlies will continue to be groomed.

There is a master plan and every member of the Leafs' management, scouting, coaching team is on the same page. Fans may have a hard time understanding some of the moves. Some moves will be embraced, others questioned, and some even considered mad, but they will march forward. Toronto has a cohort of some of the finest minds in the world of hockey. They won't do anything without a reason, but some of their moves may be setting up another move perhaps as much as 2 years down the road. They have said repeatedly this will be a long haul and not without pain. Is everyone listening?

I'm not a Leafs fan, but the future of the Toronto Maple Leafs may just be very frightening to the rest of the NHL. Patience will be needed by the fan base, but you are eventually in for a very happy future that will make that wait well worth while.
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Brilliant.
 
This is one of those weird trades where we lost the battle but won the war. Yes we lost the trade... but it gives us a huge advantage going forward.

In terms of asset value, Grabner = Beck. So why were Gibson, Finn, Nilsson, Verhaeghe included? Contract spots. So we can sign PTO guys dirt cheap that are as good right now as those players will ever be. And then to trade them at the deadline. The guys we want to sign can get 3rds in the deadline whereas these prospects can get 5ths if we were lucky.

Glencross, Boyes >> Gibson, Nilsson, Verhaeghe

Finn is a non-factor, I was surprised by how much he fell off a cliff. The transition to the pros was not kind to him.

Then there were prospects at our camp who overperformed the guys we traded that we might sign.

And it gives us fleixibility to take on contracts in trades or make waiver pickups.

Huge win for us strategically imo. Maybe not trade value wise tho. Massive thumbs up in my books.
 
This is a win win.

We open up spots AND we got the best player in the deal.

Imo, I didn't really like any of the players we traded away.

Well done.
 
Beleafer4 said:
This is one of those weird trades where we lost the battle but won the war. Yes we lost the trade... but it gives us a huge advantage going forward.

In terms of asset value, Grabner = Beck. So why were Gibson, Finn, Nilsson, Verhaeghe included? Contract spots. So we can sign PTO guys dirt cheap that are as good right now as those players will ever be. And then to trade them at the deadline. The guys we want to sign can get 3rds in the deadline whereas these prospects can get 5ths if we were lucky.

Glencross, Boyes >> Gibson, Nilsson, Verhaeghe

Finn is a non-factor, I was surprised by how much he fell off a cliff. The transition to the pros was not kind to him.

Then there were prospects at our camp who overperformed the guys we traded that we might sign.

And it gives us fleixibility to take on contracts in trades or make waiver pickups.

Huge win for us strategically imo. Maybe not trade value wise tho. Massive thumbs up in my books.
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I think most get they were to open spots likely for PTO's to sign and then trade them for picks at the TDL. Doesn't mean it was the only way to do it is the point.

If Beck and Grabner were a wash...then why not move the other un-needed prospects for late picks and then still sign the PTO's and trade them at the TDL? Grabner was just a cap dump for NYI, he had no value. Probably could have got him for Beck straight up. Doesn't anybody wonder why NYI took all of those so-called useless prospects if they were worth nothing?
 
Seriously doubt that these guys play for the Leafs even more so that they'll ever play for the Isles.
 
Only prospects worth keeping IMO are Nylander, Marner, Percy, Carrick, Loov, Kapanen, Valiev, Dzierkals, Bracco, Brown, Soshnikov, Dermott, Harrington, Leivo, Leipsic.

I might be missing one or two but these are the only guys I feel have the skillset and potential to actually help the team and not just be a part of it (could be wrong ofc - I also didn't include guys like Engvall, Johnson, Hyman because I haven't watched them yet)
 
RLF said:
I think most get they were to open spots likely for PTO's to sign and then trade them for picks at the TDL. Doesn't mean it was the only way to do it is the point.

If Beck and Grabner were a wash...then why not move the other un-needed prospects for late picks and then still sign the PTO's and trade them at the TDL? Grabner was just a cap dump for NYI, he had no value. Probably could have got him for Beck straight up. Doesn't anybody wonder why NYI took all of those so-called useless prospects if they were worth nothing?
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You wont get much value alone for middling prospects. Remember the Ashton + Broll for future considerations trade? I thinking dumping a bunch of them in one trade was a great move
 
sda said:
I dont think management would agree. Several scouts were fired because the new management didn't like who was drafted. Finn was well down the prospect list and is one of the reasons the scouts were fired. I am surprised that Morrison still has a job with the Leafs
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He was moved to the director of pro scouting, so they obviously were not pleased with his amateur scouting ability. I doubt he'll even do a whole lot of important pro scouting other than grunt work, and directing his underlings in their grunt work.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I wonder who is going to become our new NA director of scouting? Plus we still need more scouts and other things?

Director of Pro Scouting: Dave Morrison
Pro Scouts (3): Mike Penny, Tom Watt, Bryan Stewart

Director of North American Scouting: ???
NCAA Scouts (2): Jim Vesey and John Lilley
OHL Scouts (2): Lindsay Hofford and Tony Martino
WHL Scouts (2): Garth Malarchuk and Dale Derkatch
QMJHL Scouts (0): ???

Director of European Scouting: Ari Vuori
European Scouts (3): Thommie Bergman, Nikolai Ladygin and Robert Nordmark

Usually you have a scout for each conference in the CHL, so that means 3 each. Therefore, we need one more OHL scout, one more WHL scout and 3 more QMJHL scouts. We have none, and we only get talent from teams we already have players on. Seriously, the guys we offer tryouts, AHL contracts or drafted (Timashov, Brouillard, Joly and Clapperton) were either from Quebec (Donaghey) or Rimouski (Gauthier). Another NCAA scout could also be nice, but not necessary. Two should be enough considering I doubt we go there often. We had 3 before. Last year we had 5 European scouts, this year we have 4. Another one could be useful if we want to scout Slovakia, Germany, Switzerland and Czech Republic, but we've got the big leagues down.

Any suggestions for good scouts? 1 OHL, 1 WHL, 3 QMJHL and maybe 1 NCAA and European (specifically in the regions listed above).
 
I'm just curious...when did Grabner actually become this valuable commodity that I keep reading? NYI got him off waivers and it has been rumoured they have tried to move him many times, but couldn't.
 
BertCorbeau said:
Seems like the Leafs aren't intentionally tanking.
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No one does this. Sorry, the Sabres do, but they're an embarrassment.

If people actually thought mgmt. would be intentionally trying to ice a terribly hockey team, they are the worst kind of delusional.
 
Beleafer4 said:
You wont get much value alone for middling prospects. Remember the Ashton + Broll for future considerations trade? I thinking dumping a bunch of them in one trade was a great move
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Doesn't change my point. So what, so we move Gibson and Finn for a 6th. Still have an extra 6th and can sign 2 PTO's to move at the deadline. Then move Ver for a 5th, Beck for a 6th, whatever. My point is, we didn't have to give them all away in one shot for no guaranteed return. There is no guarantee we can get anything for Grabner...people realize this right? If he puts up another 8 goal season and just looks meh, we may get a 5th-7th ala Jokinen. I am sure one of those prospects could have at least returned that.
 
Ehh. Whatever. Just more cleaning up of the Burke mess. Sorry to see Nilsson go, and Finn well... He had his chances to prove himself and just wasn't up to snuff.

Call me when the name Bozak is involved.
 
RLF said:
I'm just curious...when did Grabner actually become this valuable commodity that I keep reading? NYI got him off waivers and it has been rumoured they have tried to move him many times, but couldn't.
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Well they got him off waivers years ago. He had a 34 goal season since then, but recently, he's sucked. He's had injuries, but regardless, he has major speed, has good size at 6'1, 200+ lbs and can play PK. Really, if he turns around points wise in the top 6, we could get a 1st+ out of him. Maybe they even decide to play him on the top line RW and move Joffrey Lupul to the 2nd line power forward LW role.
 
Well if anything this deal is another deal that shows that we're not going to see many rumours before a deal happens. It's just going to happen. And that excites me.
 
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