Leafs starting line-up 24/25

[thusk]

i think he meant that nylander isnt part of the group thats avoiding contact altogether hes never been a physical player hes just physically gifted so he can handle the rough play that marners still avoiding

but nylander avoiding contact...

stats at 5v5 of last 3 playoff

Marner gave up 22 more hit than nylander and took 10 more hit than nylander. Statistically speaking, Marner played a more physical game than Nylander but people speaking like nylander played hard and physical but marner soft and avoiding contact...

Like i said scoring clutche goal doesn't mean you played physical

 

[ULF_55]

Domi was also an excellent fit for Marner... but I do agree with you to an extent. Let's say Marner is gone entirely, and Domi is Matthews new setup guy.

Over a full year, Domi's going to have a mid-season struggle, or maybe miss some time to injury, whatever... now you don't have a "secondary" guy to fill in when the primary one isn't working.

Does Matthews still win the Rocket? maybe, but Matthews is probably flirting with 60 instead of flirting with 70.

That is possible.
marner's Cap Hit would be used for other assets.
There needs to be a balance between individual success (awards) and team success.

Some would argue only team success, but individual success helps lead to team success.

So maybe Matthews only hits 60 goals, but line 3 scores 60 goals, not 45?
Maybe they sign a Roy, not a Hakanpaa?

My guess some would rather keep marner, over team success, but players success is easier and team success is ultimately the goal.

IMO marner is going nowhere, and team improvement has to be built upon the backs of the prospects, so either an increasing Cap, or short windows of opportunity is in the future. Cap increase allows re-signing prospects, short window when prospects price themselves off the team.

 

[seanlinden]

That is possible.
marner's Cap Hit would be used for other assets.
There needs to be a balance between individual success (awards) and team success.

Some would argue only team success, but individual success helps lead to team success.

So maybe Matthews only hits 60 goals, but line 3 scores 60 goals, not 45?
Maybe they sign a Roy, not a Hakanpaa?

My guess some would rather keep marner, over team success, but players success is easier and team success is ultimately the goal.

IMO marner is goingo nowhere, and team improvement has to be built upon the backs of the prospects, so either an increasing Cap, or short windows of pportunity is in the future. Cap increase allows re-signing prospects, short window when prospects price themselves off the team.

Forsure -- I'm in 100% agreement with you on this and for the record, would have done everything i can to force Marner out of town this summer.

 

[ULF_55]

i think he meant that nylander isnt part of the group thats avoiding contact altogether hes never been a physical player hes just physically gifted so he can handle the rough play that marners still avoiding

marner was probably still playing hurt so stayed away from shot blocking these last playoffs.

Right?

 

[Dekes For Days]

View attachment 907070
marner was probably still playing hurt so stayed away from shot blocking these last playoffs.
Right?

Weird thing to go after considering that Marner almost doubles Nylander in blocks over the past half decade of playoffs.

 

[ULF_55]

Weird thing to go after considering that Marner almost doubles Nylander in blocks over the past half decade of playoffs.

It just happened, but we have to acknowledge their best two goal producers were not 100% so perhaps he was more focused on offense?

And I wasn't going after anything they were just stats right?

 

[notDatsyuk]

How in 2024 Beastlander is still ending up on 3rd lines.

Put him on line 1 and pp1 and just leave him there. Stop complicating matters.

I don't think it's optimum to put your two best scorers on the same line full time, even if they are your two best players.

Nylander as 2C, similar to how Edmonton uses McDavid and Draisaitl, seems to me to be a better deployment.

If some posters weren't so intent on holding on to their opinion of how great Dubas was by insisting that Tavares isn't declining, they would be able to see the obvious more easily.

 

[notDatsyuk]

It just happened, but we have to acknowledge their best two goal producers were not 100% so perhaps he was more focused on offense?

And I wasn't going after anything they were just stats right?

In any Marner/Nylander debate it seems that posters have to use selected stats going back several years to prove that Marner is the better player now.

 

[ULF_55]

In any Marner/Nylander debate it seems that posters have to use selected stats going back several years to prove that Marner is the better player now.

They really are different players.

And are used differently, as any good coach would take advantage of the player's strengths, and accept/cover their weakness.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Nylander is clearly not in the right one. The fact he scoring clutche goal doesn't mean he was playing hard and heavy hockey... He was playing fast hockey for sure but certainly no heavy/hard hockey.

When Willy wants to he can play with some serious strength and can be near impossible to knock off the puck. When he gets going he’s a monster at puck protection and he has shown a real willingness to drive the net and that has led to multiple goals for him.

 

[arso40]

but nylander avoiding contact...

View attachment 907067


stats at 5v5 of last 3 playoff

Marner gave up 22 more hit than nylander and took 10 more hit than nylander. Statistically speaking, Marner played a more physical game than Nylander but people speaking like nylander played hard and physical but marner soft and avoiding contact...

Like i said scoring clutche goal doesn't mean you played physical

once again the amount of years bacc is strengthening a weak point, couple years ago willie was playing like marner is now in terms of pulling da chute and avoiding contact last year is the only real difference in my opinion

In any Marner/Nylander debate it seems that posters have to use selected stats going back several years to prove that Marner is the better player now.

exactly

In any Marner/Nylander debate it seems that posters have to use selected stats going back several years to prove that Marner is the better player now.

exactly

 

[thusk]

When Willy wants to he can play with some serious strength and can be near impossible to knock off the puck. When he gets going he’s a monster at puck protection and he has shown a real willingness to drive the net and that has led to multiple goals for him.

hes playing fast, not physical. What you're saying its he's elusive and im agree, but its not being physical. The same way Patrick kane was elusive in playoff and not necessairly physical.

once again the amount of years bacc is strengthening a weak point, couple years ago willie was playing like marner is now in terms of pulling da chute and avoiding contact last year is the only real difference in my opinion


exactly


exactly

Did Marner really avoiding more hit or

last 3 year, Marner took more hit than nylander and matthews. In my definition a guy avoiding contact, the first thing we should see at the top is a guy avoiding to get hit and its not what the stats showing. A guy avoiding contact is a guy who will exemple dump the puck unstead of waiting 1 or 2 second and accept be hit to give more time to his teammate to create space. It's not necessairly a guy who try to hit everyone on the ice.

If exemple Marner or nylander try to play physical exemple against hedman, cernak, sergachev or whatever... they gonna loose for sure... If those type of player want to be good in forechecking, they need to play fast, be elusive, be strong on their stick to create takeaway...

Did nylander had been better in that part of this game this playoff? yes, did he was better last playoff or 2 ywar ago? no Marner had been better in that part of the game.

Ps i personally don't think Marner ankle was healthy... He was not elusive at all

 

[conFABulator]

Even if it’s not a long term solution, being a Matthews injury away from Tavares-Domi-Kampf as your C group is terrifying. Everyone that can and has played C at a professional level should be getting reps to see what sticks. There’s next to no downside, it’s not like we have an elite 3C that’s getting displaced from his high value minutes here.

If Kuznetsov can be a 1/2C on a cup winner I don’t see why Nylander can’t be a 2/3C.

Again, fully agree.

Willy is a top 30 player in the league, he has some history playing C and he could quite possibly make the transition. If this happens think about how line up for the next 3 to 5 years.

CENTRES
Matthews
Nylander
Tavares (paid like 3C or 3LW)
Minten (3C, 4C of 3LW)
Dewar
Quillan

WINGERS
Marner (if re-signed)
Knies
Domi
McMann
Robertson
Holmberg
Cowan
Grebyenkin
Hirvonen
Tverberg
+ One or two of the centres that don't stick in that role.

Lots of depth, trade capital and cap space. Balanced too.

If we keep Willy at winger we need to walk from MM and turn those dollars into a C. I don't see what move that it. With Willy at C we either keep Mitch or we turn him into one or two wingers, or a winger and a D.

 

[SprDaVE]

My personal and way too early pre-pre-season lines.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - McMann
Dewar - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Hakanpaa
Benoit

 

[thusk]

personally i would go by duo

Knies-Matthews
tavares-Marner
Domi-Nylander

and you put the guy who working thr best alongside

So exemple
Knies-Matthews-Mcmann
Robertson-tavares-Marner
Pacioretty-Domi-Nylander
Dewar-Kampf-Jarnkrok

rielly-Tanev
Oel-McCabe
Benoit-liljegren
Hakanpaa

probably a rotation with benoit, liljegren and hakanpaa

 

[ULF_55]

My personal and way too early pre-pre-season lines.

Knies - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Nylander
Pacioretty - Domi - McMann
Dewar - Holmberg - Jarnkrok
Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Hakanpaa
Benoit

I hope they get some prospect in there at times.

They have a couple rentals who could be gone next year, so need to prepare for that, along with grabbing some UFA's.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

The Marner Thee

 

[leafsforever]

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Nylander - Marner
McMann - JT - Cowan
Grebenkin/Pacioretty - Holmberg/kampf/Minten - Reaves/Dewar/jarnkrok
So much depth

Rielly - Tanev
Benoit - McCabe
OEL - Hakanpäa
Lilly - Myres/Webber

 

[thusk]

I hope they get some prospect in there at times.

They have a couple rentals who could be gone next year, so need to prepare for that, along with grabbing some UFA's.

it will be hard for prospect to crack the line up but he they did it, they would earn it...

 

[diehardleafsfan9878]

What is going to be the narrative when Nylander plays center for Sweden this year in the 4 nations face-off?

 

[thusk]

What is going to be the narrative when Nylander plays center for Sweden this year in the 4 nations face-off?

with peterson, zibanejad, erikson ek, elias lindholm, william Karlsson, Leo carlson

honestly i don't know it could be possible

 

[Darcy Tucker]

with peterson, zibanejad, erikson ek, elias lindholm, william Karlsson, Leo carlson

honestly i don't know it could be possible

Holy. I know. He is a stalwart winger. Let Nylander cook.

 

[SprDaVE]

I hope they get some prospect in there at times.

They have a couple rentals who could be gone next year, so need to prepare for that, along with grabbing some UFA's.

I think Minten will go to the Marlies to start the season to play high end minutes. Just a gut feeling. Probably will be first call-up unless he starts off slow.

I like Steeves a lot but hard to see a spot for him unless they waive Reaves or someone gets injured.

What is going to be the narrative when Nylander plays center for Sweden this year in the 4 nations face-off?

He typically plays LW when they are at their best. I don't think he's ever displaced one of their centers before.

 

[conFABulator]

Maybe Berube can get a heavy vet game out of Tavares and Patches and we get a 3rd line that cycles the shit out of the puck and scores some sneaky goals. Sheltered on defence, naturally. Kind of like what Boston and Tampa have done with their 3rd lines in the past

Knies/Matthews/Domi
Robertson/Nylander/Marner
Patches/Tavares/McMann
Holmberg/Dewar/Lorentz/Reaves

Mo/Tanev
McCabe/Lilly
OEL/Hakinpaa/Benoit

Traded: Kampf, Jarnkrok

Depending on their starts you can swap Roberson and McMann.. though it sucks to have either guy on their off-wing. Having trouble slotting Robertson in here tbh. 2nd line looks bully-able with him, but at least he'd get his look with a couple of very talented players in the top 6 and we'd have an idea where he fits in with our plans in a hurry. McMann will be at his heels for that 2LW, and realistically I think he ends up there


Nylander may work at center with the 2 way play of Marner helping out on the defensive end. It's a gamble, but worth a look to get Tavares off 2C.

I really like the top three lines you have, especially if JT brings a heavier game.

I am also all for moving out Kampf and Jarnkrok, but at this point (a) what do we do with the cap space, and (b) the fourth line you have without them doesn't really do anything for us and we lose two PKers.

Could we acquire a fourth liner in the process? Could we maybe use that line as a way to see the kids? Maybe a fourth line of Cowan, Minten, and Grebyenkin or Dewar every now and then?

I also worry about losing Murray on waivers and think we need to keep a spot and dollars in case we decide we have to break camp with three goalies.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

I really like the top three lines you have, especially if JT brings a heavier game.

I am also all for moving out Kampf and Jarnkrok, but at this point (a) what do we do with the cap space, and (b) the fourth line you have without them doesn't really do anything for us and we lose two PKers.

Could we acquire a fourth liner in the process? Could we maybe use that line as a way to see the kids? Maybe a fourth line of Cowan, Minten, and Grebyenkin or Dewar every now and then?

I also worry about losing Murray on waivers and think we need to keep a spot and dollars in case we decide we have to break camp with three goalies.

I think you get a pretty solid energy 4th with Dewar and Lorentz (I like this player, often noticed him on Florida). Holmberg slots in anywhere in the bottom 6 without much fuss, I just like McMann's fit better on the 3rd line. Reaves will get his spot starts and hopefully keep up his play from the end of last season.

PK is tough. I was mindful of losing Kampf's faceoffs, but I think we make up for it elsewhere with this construction.

Our top PKing forwards would be Dewar, Lorentz, and Marner. There's some speed, grit and scoring touch there. The gamble is whether Matthews can continue to develop as a PKer and become a staple on the second unit. Then you have Nylander, McMann and Holmberg on spot duty.

It's not perfect up front. We won't start with possession as often. Though I think we will have better puck pursuit and a great counter attack.

Tanev and Hakanpaa (if healthy) will really elevate our kill. Benoit and McCabe are no slouches.

I struggle to see our prospects cracking the roster this season. If they do, it's more likely because of injuries or someone really not panning out (Robertson or Patches). I don't think the kids are totally kicking in the door yet, but they aren't far off.

Cap space can be used to fit Patches/Lorentz post PTO contracts. We'll need wiggle room for the TDL. We have some solid depth in the minors for injuries, including the aforementioned prospects. Maybe we pick up one more depth D?