Leafs starting line-up 24/25

[conFABulator]

I don't think Tre does though.

Yeah, who knows. We will find out soon though because that would be the easiest option unless Tre is opposed to it.

 

[notDatsyuk]

View attachment 906968View attachment 906969

just 2 scouting report from 2014 i found pretty fast... Nylander played at time as c like Marner did, like Cowan did... That's doesn't mean he was a center...

Yes, very good - you can read that he has played right wing in the NHL.

 

[thusk]

Yes, very good - you can read that he has played right wing in the NHL.

its draft scouting report from 2014, not a scouting report from 2024

 

[Martin Skoula]

Why does 2014 matter? We complain that one of our centres can’t pass, our other center can’t skate, and neither holds the puck long enough for the wingers to find space. There’s precisely one guy on the team who does all 3 of those things exceptionally well and has some experience at C.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why does 2014 matter? We complain that one of our centres can’t pass, our other center can’t skate, and neither holds the puck long enough for the wingers to find space. There’s precisely one guy on the team who does all 3 of those things exceptionally well and has some experience at C.

2014 is relevant when somebody is making false claims about Nylander's history. He is a winger. It is the position that best suits his playstyle and qualities, and he hasn't looked great any time he has played center. If Nylander is able to change up his game to become a center a decade into his NHL career, good for him, but there are some people pushing this way too hard when we already have two quality top-six centers.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Been thinking about Berube's quotes from a couple of days ago and what it will mean for the final roster.

“We want to play aggressive, physical hockey. I like to have a heavy team. And we want to play fast. And when I say heavy, I don’t mean running around and fighting people. Our team in St. Louis probably had the least number of fights in the NHL. We just played hard hockey, good in front of both nets."


“We want a team that’s hard to play against. We don’t want to just outscore our problems. We want to play good, sound, structured, disciplined, hard hockey.”

He stressed heavy and hard hockey a lot. I think anyone that can't or won't play that way will quickly find themselves on the outskirts of the lineup and in Chief's doghouse. I believe a lot of our roster is able to play how Berube wants, but there are a couple of players who will definitely have to step up in this regard.

Plays Heavy Hockey​	Shown Flashes of Heavy Hockey​	Hasn't Played Heavy Hockey​
Matthews Tavares Knies McMann Dewar Reaves Lorentz Tanev McCabe Benoit Hakanpaa​	Nylander Domi Kampf Jarnkrok Rielly Ekman-Larsson​	Marner Robertson Holmberg Pacioretty Liljegren Timmins​

Most of this roster has shown to be capable of playing heavy, hard hockey. Some like Nylander are inconsistent but they've demonstrated the ability. Those in the right column should be on their toes and need to show a willingness to play the way Berube outlines, otherwise they'll be on the chopping block. Some will be safer than others, like Marner who while he doesn't play heavy is one of the best two-way players in hockey. Domi isn't lacking heart but he'll have to show more commitment to the defensive side of the puck to really endear himself and keep his spot in the lineup.

 

[Martin Skoula]

2014 is relevant when somebody is making false claims about Nylander's history. He is a winger. It is the position that best suits his playstyle and qualities, and he hasn't looked great any time he has played center. If Nylander is able to change up his game to become a center a decade into his NHL career, good for him, but there are some people pushing this way too hard when we already have two quality top-six centers.

He played C for the Marlies and in his first Leafs stint, he plays it for Sweden, both of those are a more recent than 2014. He hasn’t gotten more than a handful of games in a row at C, and most of those games were last second adjustments after injury. We have no idea what he looks like with consistent linemates and minutes but odds are it’s better than Tavares struggling to catch up to the play the majority of the time he’s on the ice.

We had 2 top 6 Cs, we don’t know how many we have going into this year with Tavares a year older and slower. Even if he can still hack it at C in sheltered minutes this year, he’s UFA and visibly slowing down. It would be wise to give a legitimate chance to our in-house option with every skillset you need in an offensive 2C before we start looking at overpaying an outside replacement. It’s not like 10 sequential games of the experiment is going to single handedly lose us games and change anything important about the season especially when our next best option is either an even worse defensively and worse skating Domi or one of Kampf/Holmberg.

 

[notbias]

Been thinking about Berube's quotes from a couple of days ago and what it will mean for the final roster.



He stressed heavy and hard hockey a lot. I think anyone that can't or won't play that way will quickly find themselves on the outskirts of the lineup and in Chief's doghouse. I believe a lot of our roster is able to play how Berube wants, but there are a couple of players who will definitely have to step up in this regard.

Plays Heavy Hockey​	Shown Flashes of Heavy Hockey​	Hasn't Played Heavy Hockey​
Matthews Tavares Knies McMann Dewar Reaves Lorentz Tanev McCabe Benoit Hakanpaa​	Nylander Domi Kampf Jarnkrok Rielly Ekman-Larsson​	Marner Robertson Holmberg Pacioretty Liljegren Timmins​

Most of this roster has shown to be capable of playing heavy, hard hockey. Some like Nylander are inconsistent but they've demonstrated the ability. Those in the right column should be on their toes and need to show a willingness to play the way Berube outlines, otherwise they'll be on the chopping block. Some will be safer than others, like Marner who while he doesn't play heavy is one of the best two-way players in hockey. Domi isn't lacking heart but he'll have to show more commitment to the defensive side of the puck to really endear himself and keep his spot in the lineup.

Everyone on this roster plays heavier hockey than Domi

 

[conFABulator]

Been thinking about Berube's quotes from a couple of days ago and what it will mean for the final roster.



He stressed heavy and hard hockey a lot. I think anyone that can't or won't play that way will quickly find themselves on the outskirts of the lineup and in Chief's doghouse. I believe a lot of our roster is able to play how Berube wants, but there are a couple of players who will definitely have to step up in this regard.

Plays Heavy Hockey​	Shown Flashes of Heavy Hockey​	Hasn't Played Heavy Hockey​
Matthews Tavares Knies McMann Dewar Reaves Lorentz Tanev McCabe Benoit Hakanpaa​	Nylander Domi Kampf Jarnkrok Rielly Ekman-Larsson​	Marner Robertson Holmberg Pacioretty Liljegren Timmins​

Most of this roster has shown to be capable of playing heavy, hard hockey. Some like Nylander are inconsistent but they've demonstrated the ability. Those in the right column should be on their toes and need to show a willingness to play the way Berube outlines, otherwise they'll be on the chopping block. Some will be safer than others, like Marner who while he doesn't play heavy is one of the best two-way players in hockey. Domi isn't lacking heart but he'll have to show more commitment to the defensive side of the puck to really endear himself and keep his spot in the lineup.

Thanks for this. I have been thinking about Berube's approach and our roster, but I hadn't done the analysis yet. Now I don't have to, I pretty much agree with every word here.

I would consider sliding Liljegren one alot to the left. He's not soft and has shown some sandpaper in very small samples, but I think we have seen it. He might be one of the guys most on their toes if we have seven healthy dmen. Let's assume Reilly, McCabe Tanev and OEL are in the lineup every night. That means one of Benoit, Hakanpaa or Liljegren sitting. I can imagine we want to see many soft games from Lily with one of the other two in the press box. He will have to bring it consistently.

I don't think everyone is realizing how big an impact a new coach can have on this group. He's a good coach and this is a very deep and talented roster. If he can raise the team's compete level come playoffs we could see very different results.

 

[conFABulator]

He played C for the Marlies and in his first Leafs stint, he plays it for Sweden, both of those are a more recent than 2014. He hasn’t gotten more than a handful of games in a row at C, and most of those games were last second adjustments after injury. We have no idea what he looks like with consistent linemates and minutes but odds are it’s better than Tavares struggling to catch up to the play the majority of the time he’s on the ice.

We had 2 top 6 Cs, we don’t know how many we have going into this year with Tavares a year older and slower. Even if he can still hack it at C in sheltered minutes this year, he’s UFA and visibly slowing down. It would be wise to give a legitimate chance to our in-house option with every skillset you need in an offensive 2C before we start looking at overpaying an outside replacement. It’s not like 10 sequential games of the experiment is going to single handedly lose us games and change anything important about the season especially when our next best option is either an even worse defensively and worse skating Domi or one of Kampf/Holmberg.

Fully agree.

It might not work, but those on here that claim this is unthinkable are not right. Nylander at C could make us better this year and dramatically better in the future if we are not spending our resources to get a 2C. The next few years of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Minten, Holmberg, Quillan, Dewar, or even a 4C UFA being our roster of C's is a pretty good strength and be less than $30m.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Fully agree.

It might not work, but those on here that claim this is unthinkable are not right. Nylander at C could make us better this year and dramatically better in the future if we are not spending our resources to get a 2C. The next few years of Matthews, Nylander, Tavares, Minten, Holmberg, Quillan, Dewar, or even a 4C UFA being our roster of C's is a pretty good strength and be less than $30m.

Even if it’s not a long term solution, being a Matthews injury away from Tavares-Domi-Kampf as your C group is terrifying. Everyone that can and has played C at a professional level should be getting reps to see what sticks. There’s next to no downside, it’s not like we have an elite 3C that’s getting displaced from his high value minutes here.

If Kuznetsov can be a 1/2C on a cup winner I don’t see why Nylander can’t be a 2/3C.

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Maybe Berube can get a heavy vet game out of Tavares and Patches and we get a 3rd line that cycles the shit out of the puck and scores some sneaky goals. Sheltered on defence, naturally. Kind of like what Boston and Tampa have done with their 3rd lines in the past

Knies/Matthews/Domi
Robertson/Nylander/Marner
Patches/Tavares/McMann
Holmberg/Dewar/Lorentz/Reaves

Mo/Tanev
McCabe/Lilly
OEL/Hakinpaa/Benoit

Traded: Kampf, Jarnkrok

Depending on their starts you can swap Roberson and McMann.. though it sucks to have either guy on their off-wing. Having trouble slotting Robertson in here tbh. 2nd line looks bully-able with him, but at least he'd get his look with a couple of very talented players in the top 6 and we'd have an idea where he fits in with our plans in a hurry. McMann will be at his heels for that 2LW, and realistically I think he ends up there


Nylander may work at center with the 2 way play of Marner helping out on the defensive end. It's a gamble, but worth a look to get Tavares off 2C.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Why does 2014 matter? We complain that one of our centres can’t pass, our other center can’t skate, and neither holds the puck long enough for the wingers to find space. There’s precisely one guy on the team who does all 3 of those things exceptionally well and has some experience at C.

I have no idea why, but he seems to have a real dislike for Nylander, and will go to any lengths to try to discredit him. He frequently goes back many years or selects a very specific time frame to try to support his views.

 

[ToneDog]

I'm warming up to the Willie before signing playing C but I'm luke warm on the Willie after signing playing C. Time to throw the guy into the deep end and if he can swim, we go from being thin down the middle to having the best 1,2 and 1,2,3 C combinations in the league. You could also double shift Marner on any of the top three lines when you need a goal. Marner will be hungry to prove his worth.

If you want to run it back, at least change it up and try something new with these guys FFS.

 

[seanlinden]

Going back to the KHL if he doesn't make the team is what would happen, but it's very unlikely IMO. I think if he was going to stay in Russia another season he wouldn't have signed his ELC and just gone back. Historically it's very rare for a player to sign out of the KHL with enough leverage to get a Euro Assignment Clause in their contract, and not at least make the team out of camp on a short leash.

I believe he will have now burnt off 2 years of his ELC by doign what he's doing, so there's the benefit to that.

As for making the team, there will be a numbers game crunch here. You can only have 23 people on the roster.

Sure, we can assume Timmins, Murray, and Reaves on waivers; but that still leaves the Leafs with 2 goalies, 7 defencemen, and 13 forwards if you include Pacioretty. Then what's to happen with Cowan and Minten?

Are they going to demote Knies to make space? Risk losing McMann or Holmberg on waivers?

 

[seanlinden]

When marner was out with injury, Matthews scored 9 goals in 12 games, a 61.5 pace.

So, yes marner helped him, but perhaps not to the extent believed.

marner:


Matthews:

Domi was also an excellent fit for Marner... but I do agree with you to an extent. Let's say Marner is gone entirely, and Domi is Matthews new setup guy.

Over a full year, Domi's going to have a mid-season struggle, or maybe miss some time to injury, whatever... now you don't have a "secondary" guy to fill in when the primary one isn't working.

Does Matthews still win the Rocket? maybe, but Matthews is probably flirting with 60 instead of flirting with 70.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He played C for the Marlies and in his first Leafs stint, he plays it for Sweden, both of those are a more recent than 2014. He hasn’t gotten more than a handful of games in a row at C, and most of those games were last second adjustments after injury. We have no idea what he looks like with consistent linemates and minutes but odds are it’s better than Tavares struggling to catch up to the play the majority of the time he’s on the ice.

We had 2 top 6 Cs, we don’t know how many we have going into this year with Tavares a year older and slower. Even if he can still hack it at C in sheltered minutes this year, he’s UFA and visibly slowing down. It would be wise to give a legitimate chance to our in-house option with every skillset you need in an offensive 2C before we start looking at overpaying an outside replacement. It’s not like 10 sequential games of the experiment is going to single handedly lose us games and change anything important about the season especially when our next best option is either an even worse defensively and worse skating Domi or one of Kampf/Holmberg.

Playing center in international tournaments on different ice surfaces is not the same thing as playing center in the NHL. Nylander does not have every skillset you'd want in a center. He has the skillsets you'd want in a winger. That's why he's a winger. It's one thing to do a small experiment to test things out for an injury or the future, but we're not talking about a little experiment, or what to do in case of injury, or alternatives to overpaying an outside replacement. We're talking about people advocating for permanently changing Nylander to center after a decade as a winger, when we have no real need to do so, or evidence that it will work better. We still have two top-six centers, and despite the dramatics by some around here, there is no real indication that Tavares is about to drastically fall off.

 

[Shooter2x]

How in 2024 Beastlander is still ending up on 3rd lines.

Put him on line 1 and pp1 and just leave him there. Stop complicating matters.

 

[TMLAM34]

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Pacioretty - Minten - Nylander
McMann - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Hakanpaa
Benoit

Woll - Murray - Stolarz

 

[13pacheco31]

Knies - Matthews - Domi
Robertson - Tavares - Marner
Pacioretty - Minten - Nylander
McMann - Kampf - Jarnkrok
Reaves

Rielly - Tanev
McCabe - Liljegren
OEL - Hakanpaa
Benoit

Woll - Murray - Stolarz

I think Hakanpaa will be the 7th d and there's no way Murray becomes the no.2 guy over stolarz. It'll be Woll 1A and stolarz 1B

 

[thusk]

Been thinking about Berube's quotes from a couple of days ago and what it will mean for the final roster.



He stressed heavy and hard hockey a lot. I think anyone that can't or won't play that way will quickly find themselves on the outskirts of the lineup and in C

hief's doghouse. I believe a lot of our roster is able to play how Berube wants, but there are a couple of players who will definitely have to step up in this regard.

Plays Heavy Hockey​	Shown Flashes of Heavy Hockey​	Hasn't Played Heavy Hockey​
Matthews Tavares Knies McMann Dewar Reaves Lorentz Tanev McCabe Benoit Hakanpaa​	Nylander Domi Kampf Jarnkrok Rielly Ekman-Larsson​	Marner Robertson Holmberg Pacioretty Liljegren Timmins​

Most of this roster has shown to be capable of playing heavy, hard hockey. Some like Nylander are inconsistent but they've demonstrated the ability. Those in the right column should be on their toes and need to show a willingness to play the way Berube outlines, otherwise they'll be on the chopping block. Some will be safer than others, like Marner who while he doesn't play heavy is one of the best two-way players in hockey. Domi isn't lacking heart but he'll have to show more commitment to the defensive side of the puck to really endear himself and keep his spot in the lineup.

Nylander is clearly not in the right one. The fact he scoring clutche goal doesn't mean he was playing hard and heavy hockey... He was playing fast hockey for sure but certainly no heavy/hard hockey.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think Hakanpaa will be the 7th d and there's no way Murray becomes the no.2 guy over stolarz. It'll be Woll 1A and stolarz 1B

If Hakanpaa is healthy, he’s one of the better defenceman PKers in the league. Wouldn’t surprise me if he starts in the top six, if healthy.

If Murray is healthy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the team runs all 3. All 3 are injury prone so the likelihood of one getting injured sooner than later is pretty likely.

 

[arso40]

Nylander is clearly not in the right one. The fact he scoring clutche goal doesn't mean he was playing hard and heavy hockey... He was playing fast hockey for sure but certainly no heavy/hard hockey.

i think he meant that nylander isnt part of the group thats avoiding contact altogether hes never been a physical player hes just physically gifted so he can handle the rough play that marners still avoiding

 

[13pacheco31]

If Hakanpaa is healthy, he’s one of the better defenceman PKers in the league. Wouldn’t surprise me if he starts in the top six, if healthy.

If Murray is healthy, I wouldn’t be surprised if the team runs all 3. All 3 are injury prone so the likelihood of one getting injured sooner than later is pretty likely.

I don't expect him to be the defenceman he once was

 

[IceColdBear]

Knies-Matthews-Marner
Domi-Nylander-Jankrok
Pacioretty-Tavares-Robertson
Holmberg-Kampf-McMann
Extra: Dewar, Reaves, Lorentz

Rielly-Tanev
McCabe-Liljegren
OEL-Hakanpaa
Extra: Benoit, Timmins

Looking at that forward group - it will be tough for Cowan, Minten, or Grebenkin to make the team this year imo unless we move a forward or two.