Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign RHD John Klingberg (1 year, $4.15M) | UPD 11/23: LTIR

[TopCheese]

still annoyed we signed him instead of Dumba. he's going to be tyson barrier 2.0

 

[Stephen]

still annoyed we signed him instead of Dumba. he's going to be tyson barrier 2.0

Dumba's still out there...

 

[TopCheese]

Dumba's still out there...

yea but we used up our cap space signing Klingberg and now dont have room for Dumba

 

[LeafEgo]

yea but we used up our cap space signing Klingberg and now dont have room for Dumba

With what we've seen and heard from Tree so far it seems likely he's been in contact at least. Brodie would have to move out though. I'm sure there is a Gio plan as well, that would be a hell of a shake up since pre TDL.

Wonder if Dumba would join the one year club. Certainly has been outside the box thinking with our current situation. Sort of a slower more agile 'change the make up of the team' approach.

 

[Fogelhund]

still annoyed we signed him instead of Dumba. he's going to be tyson barrier 2.0

Dumba's skating isn't what it used to be, his defense has never been that good, and he put up 14 points this year. He's the kind of guy that you'd be fine if you give him a buriable contract, but he's going to want far more... hence why he's still available. This is three year average data, and both is offense and defense have dropped off considerably this year. I'm not a fan of the Klingberg signing, but Dumba at $4 mill would have been atrocious.

 

[Notsince67]

Dumba's still out there...

Dumba is way past his best before date.
Not sure how he fell off a cliff.

Dumba's skating isn't what it used to be, his defense has never been that good, and he put up 14 points this year. He's the kind of guy that you'd be fine if you give him a buriable contract, but he's going to want far more... hence why he's still available. This is three year average data, and both is offense and defense have dropped off considerably this year. I'm not a fan of the Klingberg signing, but Dumba at $4 mill would have been atrocious.

View attachment 733180

100% agree.

 

[nuck]

Klingberg's advanced stats are pretty interesting. He is definitely not a Tyson Barrie. Have a look at some of his Corsi and Fenwick % and try to figure out which partners have been carrying him.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20162017&thruseason=20182019&stype=2&sit=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8475906

 

[andora]

Klingberg's advanced stats are pretty interesting. He is definitely not a Tyson Barrie. Have a look at some of his Corsi and Fenwick % and try to figure out which partners have been carrying him.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20162017&thruseason=20182019&stype=2&sit=all&stdoi=oi&rate=n&v=t&playerid=8475906

Let me guess... the silent partner esa lindell?

 

[weems]

If Klingberg does in fact get time on the first PP it will be interesting to see how much having a player with a legit shot can change the dynamics.

So much of our PP runs thru Marner and Rielly and I would say neither of them are threats to consistently be able to snipe from long distances and one timers especially aren't something you see much of.

In a playoff series where the advanced scouting is so strong and you play said team possibly 7 times in 2 weeks, how much something like that can eventually be exploited and thus the overall effectiveness of the PP nullified.

 

[nuck]

Let me guess... the silent partner esa lindell?

5 on 5 at least, it doesn't look like anyone. The link or the more recent 3 year sample seems to indicate every regular D partner's XGF is better with him than without. Poke around a bit and tell me if I am missing something. The Dallas numbers are most relevant because of the sample size and how bad Anaheim was. Now he is around a 54% career oz% guy with Dallas so his numbers are flavoured by usage, but he might not be the turnstile some are fearing.

 

[andora]

5 on 5 at least, it doesn't look like anyone. The link or the more recent 3 year sample seems to indicate every regular D partner's XGF is better with him than without. Poke around a bit and tell me if I am missing something. The Dallas numbers are most relevant because of the sample size and how bad Anaheim was. Now he is around a 54% career oz% guy with Dallas so his numbers are flavoured by usage, but he might not be the turnstile some are fearing.

I have looked at him a little bit.. i also noticed that players have generally had better numbers away from him. A guy like lindell is consistent either or because he is so stable

I am not a fan of klingberg though.. he is too chaotic for me and i see him as a net zero player.. gives back as much as he creates

 

[justashadowof]

still annoyed we signed him instead of Dumba. he's going to be tyson barrier 2.0

Interesting hypothetical topic of discussion: if Dumba were willing to take the same 1 year @ $4M, would you prefer Dumba over Klingberg? My answer is yes. I tend to agree that Klingberg is going to be very similar to Barrie, a redundant offensive defenseman who doesn't kill penalties and requires sheltered ice time at times.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Dumba's skating isn't what it used to be, his defense has never been that good, and he put up 14 points this year. He's the kind of guy that you'd be fine if you give him a buriable contract, but he's going to want far more... hence why he's still available. This is three year average data, and both is offense and defense have dropped off considerably this year. I'm not a fan of the Klingberg signing, but Dumba at $4 mill would have been atrocious.

View attachment 733180

But hits!

 

[justashadowof]

If Klingberg does in fact get time on the first PP it will be interesting to see how much having a player with a legit shot can change the dynamics.

So much of our PP runs thru Marner and Rielly and I would say neither of them are threats to consistently be able to snipe from long distances and one timers especially aren't something you see much of.

In a playoff series where the advanced scouting is so strong and you play said team possibly 7 times in 2 weeks, how much something like that can eventually be exploited and thus the overall effectiveness of the PP nullified.

I don't quite get how it'll work yet. Does Klingberg replace Rielly on the 1st PP unit? If yes, does Klingberg work from the left side or totally disrupt the team's PP structure by taking Marner's spot? Do the Leafs go back to 2 defensemen on the PP something that went out of vogue about 8 years ago? Again, that makes little sense as that's where Marner operates.

I'm going to say one semi-controversial thing: I very much doubt that Klingberg has a better shot than Mitch Marner.

 

[TMLAM34]

The gap between Klingberg’s defensive game to Dumba’s isn’t that far apart… The gap between Dumba’s offensive game to Klingberg’s is VERY far apart.

At the same price tag, I’m taking Klingberg pretty easily.

 

[weems]

I don't quite get how it'll work yet. Does Klingberg replace Rielly on the 1st PP unit? If yes, does Klingberg work from the left side or totally disrupt the team's PP structure by taking Marner's spot? Do the Leafs go back to 2 defensemen on the PP something that went out of vogue about 8 years ago? Again, that makes little sense as that's where Marner operates.

I'm going to say one semi-controversial thing: I very much doubt that Klingberg has a better shot than Mitch Marner.

In my hypothetical setup he'd be replacing Rielly. Rielly has done a fine job in this role and it's not a criticism of him.

One sequence it could improve things on the PP is when Mitch has the puck on the wall and he's either looking to make a quick forehand pass back or even a no look behind back pass, it's much easier for a right handed shooter to directly step right into the shot whereas a left handed shooter doesn't initially have the same balance or angle to properly step into it right away and needs to first corral the pass, take a stride to the left and then fire. It would be the same on the left wall where if Matthews threw a pass back into the slot/point area, It's much easier for a left handed shooter to step right into the shot than a right handed shooter for the same reasons.

Mitch is by far the teams best distributor and in theory his skillset on the wall works best with someone he can find all types of creative ways to get the puck back to them where they can instantly step in and rip it.

 

[VanW27]

If Klingberg does in fact get time on the first PP it will be interesting to see how much having a player with a legit shot can change the dynamics.

So much of our PP runs thru Marner and Rielly and I would say neither of them are threats to consistently be able to snipe from long distances and one timers especially aren't something you see much of.

In a playoff series where the advanced scouting is so strong and you play said team possibly 7 times in 2 weeks, how much something like that can eventually be exploited and thus the overall effectiveness of the PP nullified.

He has to right, why else bring him in?

Personally I've been hoping for a shift on the PP mentality to Matthews as the primary puck handler instead of Marner and right shot on the point helps facilitate that. Think how the PP used to run through Sundin even though he was the best scoring threat.

-‐-‐------------ Klingberg ---------------
Matthews -- Marner -- Nylander
--‐-------------- Tavares -----------------

Matthews can utilize the wrister to attack if they give him too much space, try to take him away and you have one timer threats from all 3 guys out high and of course JT at the net front. And while improving Matthews one timer just isn't that good of a weapon to try to create chances for. Marners quickness and skill should serve him well in the slot while allowing him to be close enough that his shot is a real threat.

 

[thusk]

Interesting hypothetical topic of discussion: if Dumba were willing to take the same 1 year @ $4M, would you prefer Dumba over Klingberg? My answer is yes. I tend to agree that Klingberg is going to be very similar to Barrie, a redundant offensive defenseman who doesn't kill penalties and requires sheltered ice time at times.

Depend of what you need... if your needing offensive from D, you taking klindberg with no hesitation...

If you want to be more physical and a player to be a little more evwrywhere... yes dumba is a better fit.

For a team who was pratically one of worst team with offensive coming off d, i think klinberg was a better fit.

 

[weems]

He has to right, why else bring him in?

Personally I've been hoping for a shift on the PP mentality to Matthews as the primary puck handler instead of Marner and right shot on the point helps facilitate that. Think how the PP used to run through Sundin even though he was the best scoring threat.

-‐-‐------------ Klingberg ---------------
Matthews -- Marner -- Nylander
--‐-------------- Tavares -----------------

Matthews can utilize the wrister to attack if they give him too much space, try to take him away and you have one timer threats from all 3 guys out high and of course JT at the net front. Marners quickness and skill should serve him well in the slot while allowing him to be close enough that his shot is a real threat.

I think we should at least give it a long enough look at some point because Klingberg has fantastic offensive IQ and if it doesn't work quite as well as hoped, you can always just go back to the old setup with Rielly that's been good.

At this point we should be open to alot of different looks or playstyles because so far we've yet to be able to find the proper combinations to become a championship level team.

 

[Rob Brown]

still annoyed we signed him instead of Dumba. he's going to be tyson barrier 2.0

Dumba has been pretty bad the last few years.

 

[Mess]

He has to right, why else bring him in?

Personally I've been hoping for a shift on the PP mentality to Matthews as the primary puck handler instead of Marner and right shot on the point helps facilitate that. Think how the PP used to run through Sundin even though he was the best scoring threat.

-‐-‐------------ Klingberg ---------------
Matthews -- Marner -- Nylander
--‐-------------- Tavares -----------------

Matthews can utilize the wrister to attack if they give him too much space, try to take him away and you have one timer threats from all 3 guys out high and of course JT at the net front. And while improving Matthews one timer just isn't that good of a weapon to try to create chances for. Marners quickness and skill should serve him well in the slot while allowing him to be close enough that his shot is a real threat.

PP1 potentially

-‐-‐------------- Klingberg ---------------
Marner --------- Tavares ------Matthews
--‐-------------- Bertuzzi ----------------

PS. When Leafs acquired ROR at the TD he replaced Nylander on PP#1 so I see Bertuzzi eventually being that net front presence and that goes hand in hand with Klingberg blasting away from the point something Mo Riells does very seldom.

vs. Florida playoffs .. Game #2 ..

Ryan O'Reilly (3) (Power Play) Assists: Mitchell Marner (10), Auston Matthews (6)

 

[Gallagbi]

The Dumba comments are interesting given they played on the same team last playoff. Dumba was pretty consistently given top pair minutes and heavy PK time, Klingberg was closer to bottom pairing usage and heavy PP time.

 

[notbias]

The Dumba comments are interesting given they played on the same team last playoff. Dumba was pretty consistently given top pair minutes and heavy PK time, Klingberg was closer to bottom pairing usage and heavy PP time.

Both are bad... one is just bad and plays a more Minny-style game.

I think Klingberg might do alright in our system, Minny doesn't seem like a good fit.

I've learned from this summer though, most people don't know anything about the players outside of the name, so I think that is why people want Dumba.

 

[3headeddragon]

Interesting hypothetical topic of discussion: if Dumba were willing to take the same 1 year @ $4M, would you prefer Dumba over Klingberg? My answer is yes. I tend to agree that Klingberg is going to be very similar to Barrie, a redundant offensive defenseman who doesn't kill penalties and requires sheltered ice time at times.

For me it is more a usage variable. If he is used on the 1st PP then he isn't a redundancy. He brings elements to it Reilly doesn't. If not you're right but that is on the coach not the GM.

 

[nuck]

I have looked at him a little bit.. i also noticed that players have generally had better numbers away from him. A guy like lindell is consistent either or because he is so stable

I am not a fan of klingberg though.. he is too chaotic for me and i see him as a net zero player.. gives back as much as he creates

Re: the bolded that's what I expected to find but:

19-21 Heiskanen CF% with Kling 66.75, without Kling 50.96 and Kling without Heiskanen 54.47.
19-21 Lindell CF% 48.93 with Kling, 36.64 without Kling, and Kling without Lindell 61.41

Those are significant differences although the minutes with Heisk are much lower than with Lundell. The minuses don't jive with the shot based metrics though.

I think he may be pretty good beside McCabe and this would be the year to work Lilly in with Rielly more.