ACC1224
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Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Ryan Reaves (3 years, $1.3M AAV)
- Thread starter mikeyz
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Da Mash
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It’s not everything but he has been a minus player the last several yrs on some good defensively teams.
It’s not all and it is a small sample size but if player x is a liability defensively against other 4th liners and his only worth is intimidation and that doesn’t really happen during the regular season then why put your team in the hole and play player x
The bottom six is a mess. if we need goals then Kampf and Reeves are not your guys. They need to be defensively responsible and so far that line hasn’t been good in limited minutes.
Some believe his locker room presence is worth his on ice play…and some think it’s not worth it because we have enough issues defensively.
JMHO
His underlying/expected metrics are even worse. Plus/minus is flattering him. Plus/minus is still garbage, but it should be noted that the only reason it's getting pointed to in the first place is because some people see the more relevant underlying play-driving metrics and outright dismiss them.
He's sucked in goal differential. He's sucked in underlying play-driving metrics. He's sucked according to the eye test. Take your pick.
Ianturnedbull
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Domi, Minton, Knies, (sometimes) Jarnkrok, Reaves, Kampf, Gregor...
Trade them all at the deadline?
IT seems a little like an EA Sports NHL 24 manager mode move IMHO.
From what I can tell Keefe has his work cut out for him.
I can't believe I'm saying it but maybe having Nylander at 3C (here and there) might be TOR's only solution for now.
Evilhomer
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I don't think anyone can argue much against Reaves statistics. His actual hockey abilities are limited. I can't imagine there is anyone in the hockey world, including Leafs management, who doesn't already know that. It's just not the primary reason for why he is on this team. No different than Ross Johnston on the Islanders (now Ducks) or any traditional enforcer. Sometimes those guys simply bring a different element that teams need.
Hasn't stopped many from trying to in this thread.
The Leafs don't need a bad hockey player. The primary reason for hockey players to be on hockey teams is to play hockey well.
If the Leafs expected him to suck this bad and still signed him at 1.35m for multiple years until he's 40, that's a massive issue that goes well beyond just Reaves. Heck, even the mentioned Ross Johnston (who isn't in his late 30s or being paid 1.35m or on a team realistically competing for anything) was waived by the most dinosaur GM in the league.
I blame that line sucking more on Kampf than I do Reaves. Kampf gets more ozs by a large margin, and has an identical CF% while playing more minutes. If you guys look at career stats, Kampf and Reaves are scary close in their numbers, and Noah Gregor is brutal in comparison. I wouldn't say it is Reaves dragging down everyone considering he is playing 8mins a night. Maybe look at what is actually occurring on the ice when they are getting hemmed or scored on. It is usually Kampf unable to get it up the boards, or the D failing to get the puck to a winger as an outlet. Reaves is where he is suppose to be positionally most of the time I have watched him.
I think people don't like this signing because he opposes their views on how hockey should be played now. He is a career 48% CF guy, while getting about a 50/50 Dzone/Ozone start. He isn't as bad as some are making him out to be.
Kampf looks lost on the other hand.
I think people don't like this signing because he opposes their views on how hockey should be played now. He is a career 48% CF guy, while getting about a 50/50 Dzone/Ozone start. He isn't as bad as some are making him out to be.
Kampf looks lost on the other hand.
Theyre both an issue. Reaves is really struggling in our zone, hes a step behind in races, bobbling pucks and unable to clear.
Kampf just looks confused right now, like hes unsure of how to play with his wingers
ACC1224
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A lot of this thread should be moved to the overreaction thread.
Da Mash
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We cant trade them all obviously ....
Knies and Mitten are kids still learning....Kampf is a solid 4th line center that provides you no offence but gives up little defensively. He is a black hole for a 4th liner and that is good.
The issue seems like the 2 guys we added. Domi has always been lazy on defense....has some skill offensively but already has been demoted and something has to be said on why he has been on so many teams. Reeves has a role....Some people love it....and Some People like me think its a waste of roster spot and cap money especially during the regular season. I know its not much but when you are tight against the cap every penny counts.
The question is..... Is Reeves presence worth it? Do players in regular season dressed in plastic armour play bigger with him yapping on the bench? Or is this just jibberish because we think it should be 70's hockey. Look the Q already banned fighting......its coming.
Dont get me wrong.....Im all for big tough players that play the game tough...check hard but are also a bit gifted offensively and very good defensively but those types dont grow on trees. Perry is a perfect example. Former MVP....mixes it up ...plays responsible
In the end we have gotten worse defensively......is it the new defensive scheme we are using that years ago did nothing but cause us headaches? Or do we need more from the bottom six? If your 4th line is always giving up a goal but never scoring....then IMHO it really doesnt matter how good Reese is in the locker room IMHO .
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ACC1224
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We aren't the ones adding these players, GM's all over the league find a use for them.We cant trade them all obviously ....
Knies and Mitten are kids still learning....Kampf is a solid 4th line center that provides you no offence but gives up little defensively. He is a black hole for a 4th liner and that is good.
The issue seems like the 2 guys we added. Domi has always been lazy on defense....has some skill offensively but already has been demoted and something has to be said on why he has been on so many teams. Reeves has a role....Some people love it....and Some People like me think its a waste of roster spot and cap money especially during the regular season. I know its not much but when you are tight against the cap every penny counts.
The question is..... Is Reeves presence worth it? Do players in regular season dressed in plastic armour play bigger with him yapping on the bench? Or is this just jibberish because we think it should be 70's hockey. Look the Q already banned fighting......its coming.
Dont get me wrong.....Im all for big tough players that play the game tough...check hard but are also a bit gifted offensively and very good defensively but those types dont grow on trees. Perry is a perfect example. Former MVP....mixes it up ...plays responsible
In the end we have gotten worse defensively......is it the new defensive scheme we are using that years ago did nothing but cause us headaches? Or do we need more from the bottom six? If your 4th line is always giving up a goal but never scoring....then IMHO it really doesnt matter how good Reese is in the locker room IMHO .
Ianturnedbull
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We cant trade them all obviously ....
Knies and Mitten are kids still learning....Kampf is a solid 4th line center that provides you no offence but gives up little defensively. He is a black hole for a 4th liner and that is good.
The issue seems like the 2 guys we added. Domi has always been lazy on defense....has some skill offensively but already has been demoted and something has to be said on why he has been on so many teams. Reeves has a role....Some people love it....and Some People like me think its a waste of roster spot and cap money especially during the regular season. I know its not much but when you are tight against the cap every penny counts.
The question is..... Is Reeves presence worth it? Do players in regular season dressed in plastic armour play bigger with him yapping on the bench? Or is this just jibberish because we think it should be 70's hockey. Look the Q already banned fighting......its coming.
Dont get me wrong.....Im all for big tough players that play the game tough...check hard but are also a bit gifted offensively and very good defensively but those types dont grow on trees. Perry is a perfect example. Former MVP....mixes it up ...plays responsible
In the end we have gotten worse defensively......is it the new defensive scheme we are using that years ago did nothing but cause us headaches? Or do we need more from the bottom six? If your 4th line is always giving up a goal but never scoring....then IMHO it really doesnt matter how good Reese is in the locker room IMHO .
I'm not for the "tough guy" makes you harder to play against. Sure, I'd RATHER have a guy who can hit and drop the gloves than not do that, if all else is equal....but that is just it. Is everything else equal? With Reaves, you can probably do a lot better in terms of 'hockey skill' right now.
Yes, there is a value about being hard to play against, but in the modern NHL, to me what is 'hard to play against' is not a fighter/hitter. But rather a guy who is tenacious on the forecheck. Guys on the other side who, up by 3 goals or down by 3 goals just keep coming after you, 100% motor and no quit. The team I don't want to play against isn't the one with the fighter(s), but rather the ones who just do not let up on you, no matter what.
thewave
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You sound like you are anti physical game play and it's terrible thinking IMHO. You play a team willing to do what you will not and they win and that's pretty much the way she goes there bud. Tough guys are there to make the other team think twice.
We're 3 games in. Reaves has found 2 fights, had Perry chirp him only to go on to score the GWG. Do you really think teams or players are scared of him?
I get being hopeful his physical play motivates others or it energizes them on those lazy midweek games, but tough guys havent been a deterrent for some time
Mess
Global Moderator
The days of Denis Malgin being brought in by the
GM at the expense of big physical players are behind us. The time of Ryan Reaves has arrived.Didnt we trade Malgin for a physical 4th liner?The days of Denis Malgin being brought in by the
DarkKnight
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1.6 percent of the cap takes up 99 percent of your time. Some of you are a hoot.
You are reaching to make your point if you think I said I don't like a physical game at all. I am referring to someone who fights.
And honestly you don't need it. Vegas one the cup last year with their leader in Penalty minutes in the regular season with a total of 68, and he was the ONLY player on the team with even more than 2 majors. Colorado the year before? No one with even 100pms and no 'heavyweights'. Tampa the 2 years before? again, no one with even 80 pms each year and no heavyweights. Its just not needed.
Guys who can on occasion mix it up and drop the gloves once every 10 games if needed, sure....a guy who's main talent is to fight? Not in today's NHL.
Yet many who are making posts here are actually talking about the player, the role he has on the team. You took the time to post in this thread....complaining that people are posting in this thread? lol
I wasn't talking about money even though it's still somewhat of a waste as you'll be paying for a guy who is probably worth half of that. It has to do with the fact that most people believe he's not here for his hockey ability(aside from hits and fights) and it's more of a advice and personality role(which is even worse). So i'm talking about that part because that's what i know a lot about.
Kurtz
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Tampa has always dressed enforcers. That year they had Maroon, Schenn. Last year they traded an entire draft class for an enforcer and dressed him alongside Maroon.
AVS had Kurtis Macdermid in their championship season, along with other physical guys (Naz, Landeskog, etc)
Vegas has Kolesar who is tougher than anyone on our roster sans Reeves. You may remember Kolesar breaking Tkachuk in half in the playoffs.
And we can keep going. The Blues championship team also had Maroon. Capitals had Wilson. Penguins had...Reeves.
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The premeditated stuff is ineffective. The 4 have been coddled emotionally. If they have to be coddled physically then play Reaves on the 1st and 2nd lines. Sememko / McSorley had shifts with Gretz; Probert with Y. Then maybe Reaves' play can draw the 4 out of their emotional shell and into physical engagement and force them to man up.
A1LeafNation
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He hasn't even had a chance to prove himself.
Let's see what happens when a star players is shoved head first into the boards....
Let's see what happens when a star players is shoved head first into the boards....
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The whole Florida game was pretty disappointing. Gregor gets run late and after the whistle the faceoff before the first goal. Thats our fourth line, with Reaves on the ice.
You guys are insane.
I have watched two games live and not once did i say......... Oh No Reaves.. what are you doing.
If you want to gush about advanced stats and paying teams to take your mistakes, then I suggest you go where you will find a nice warm welcome.
forums.hfboards.com
I think Ryan is hurt. I think his hand is hurt.
I have watched two games live and not once did i say......... Oh No Reaves.. what are you doing.
If you want to gush about advanced stats and paying teams to take your mistakes, then I suggest you go where you will find a nice warm welcome.
Salary Cap: - Pens '23-'24 Salary Cap Thread: "But if you don't get the President of the Pittsburgh Penguins on that phone, you know what's gonna happen to you?"
Group Capt. Mike Sullivan: Colonel... that Coca-Cola machine. I want you to shoot the lock off it. There may be some change in there. Colonel "Sid" Crosby: That's private property. Group Capt. Mike Sullivan: Colonel! Can you possibly imagine what is going to happen to you, your frame, outlook...
I think Ryan is hurt. I think his hand is hurt.
