Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign F Auston Matthews to extension (4 years, $13.25M AAV)

[francis246]

Is that your professional assessment? I sound like Dubas?

Hey if I make little sense to you, perhaps I'm talking over your head?

I got the bolded part from you ...

I also love how pasta who has NEVER won a Stanley cup either is always thrown into the mix. Guess paying him what the bruins pay him isn’t the way to win a cup

 

[leafs in five]

It shouldn't be a hard concept to understand.

Paying our stars more than basically every single other team puts us at a huge disadvantage.

If you chear for the Leafs because you want to see matthews become the franchise leading scorer, you should be happy.

If you chear for the Leafs because you want to see them win the cup, you shouldn't be happy.

what should not be difficult to understand is that it is not a choice between Matthews at 11.6 or 13.25 and Matthews at .5 or 1 or 1.5m less a year because he wants to win a cup and understands he shouldn't make more than star players who have. It's a choice between Matthews at about what we have paid him and no Matthews, so Matthews vs whatever you get for him in a trade + the players you choose to pay (/who choose to sign here) with the money you don't pay him.

It's reasonable to argue that we'd be better off or closer to winning a cup if we didn't pay up for a star who wouldn't sign for a big enough discount or a long enough term, and instead moved him for some solid depth players and/or a star willing to sacrifice for the good of the team's cap space and cup chances. it's weirdo defaced-likeness-of-your-team's-former-GM-for-an-avatar behaviour to assert that thinking we're better off/closer to winning a cup with Matthews signed at the highest cap hit in the league than we would be without him means you are content to never win a cup.

 

[Menzinger]

I guess you and I look at things differently. I don't give a crap about what Matthews "represents for hockey", I want my team to win the cup.

This is absolutely fair.

But it's also an unfortunate fact that Canadian markets will always be at a disadvantage to US teams when it comes to high valued players. Something that is hard to exactly quantify as an exact %, but comparable star contracts will always get a small bump here.

So unless we're going to be happy in a perpetual rebuild cycling through rfa after rfa until we get the perfect group, compromise is eventually going to have to happen

 

[Gary Nylund]

it's 13.25 not 13.5. so 550k above the figure you say everyone would be happy with, less than the league minimum.

what if he got paid 550k less though

I'm pretty sure I said everyone would be happy with that on an 8 year deal, not the 5 he signed for.

I have to say that I am a bit envious of Matthews. He has some serious FU skills and some serious FU money. People can choose to like him but if they don't....he probably doesnt really give a shit.
While the haters rant on, others will be tuning in and telling them to stfu while the game is on. The meager clout achieved when bitching on an off game moment is the tender mercies of those who just don't really matter

I'm not envious myself as I'm happy with my life and wouldn't trade with anyone. That said, your point is well taken.

This is absolutely fair.

But it's also an unfortunate fact that Canadian markets will always be at a disadvantage to US teams when it comes to high valued players. Something that is hard to exactly going to quantify as an exact %, but comparable star contracts will always get a small bump here.

So unless we're going to be happy in a perpetual rebuild cycling through rfa after rfa until we get the perfect group, compromise is eventually going to have to happen

True enough. It is hard to quantify, and that side of things has never interested me too much, but I assume that this is less of an issue for us because we're so rich that we front load the crap out of contracts without blinking an eye, and the top guys also get endorsement opportunities to an extent the wouldn't in most, if not all other cities.

what should not be difficult to understand is that it is not a choice between Matthews at 11.6 or 13.25 and Matthews at .5 or 1 or 1.5m less a year because he wants to win a cup and understands he shouldn't make more than star players who have. It's a choice between Matthews at about what we have paid him and no Matthews, so Matthews vs whatever you get for him in a trade + the players you choose to pay (/who choose to sign here) with the money you don't pay him.

It's reasonable to argue that we'd be better off or closer to winning a cup if we didn't pay up for a star who wouldn't sign for a big enough discount or a long enough term, and instead moved him for some solid depth players and/or a star willing to sacrifice for the good of the team's cap space and cup chances. it's weirdo defaced-likeness-of-your-team's-former-GM-for-an-avatar behaviour to assert that thinking we're better off/closer to winning a cup with Matthews signed at the highest cap hit in the league than we would be without him means you are content to never win a cup.

We can't really trade him unless he agrees to it. But other than that, this is all true and signing him for what it cost is way better than no Matthews so overall, can't complain too much.

 

[pcruz]

The Jake Sanderson deal would be more like Toronto locking up Matthew Knies to $7 million x 8 years or something next season after a good rookie year than anything resembling the Auston Matthews contract.

Ottawa is paying front loaded money to a kid who has yet to really break out. I think partially because they didn’t want Dahlin and Seider to dictate Sanderson’s ask as an RFA next summer. And partially to lock a guy in before he starts picking up recognition around the league and starts looking around.

That was completely impossible for Toronto to do.

Matthews scored like 77 goals in his first 2 years as a Leaf before he was ever eligible for a new contract.

That's about double of the average player's entire career in the NHL.

Before he was ever eligible for deal!

f***ing nurs what we saw.

 

[LeafEgo]

if you think 8.05m on a 77 game sample size is great, low offensive metrics, idk what to tell you. That deal is more risky than any deal that the leafs have signed. Ottawa has to do that, otherwise they will not get players to stay there.

The risk is equal to both parties. It's not a lever used to 'get players to stay'.

Stutzle didn't stay because he was given some advantage during negotiations, and in the end it was his risk that was realized. Ottawa got him to stay and got the better deal at the players expense.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Why does this NEVER go in the opposite direction?

It goes in every direction, all the time. It's just how contracts work, and there are plenty of other non-Leaf contracts that don't align according to exclusively peak raw points and team accomplishments. You're just not focused on them. The issue is that you've picked out the very best contracts according to the extremely limited criteria you refuse to expand beyond, and have demanded that everything else is an unprecedented dramatic overpayment, instead of looking to actually understand why the contracts are what they are.

What the f*** is it about our guys that makes them "worth more" than comparable players?

They're not worth more than comparable players. They're worth more than worse and less valuable players, that one may incorrectly believe are equivalent when they don't look beyond just peak raw points like teams and agents would.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

To me the whole story is the Toronto Maple Leafs have Auston Matthews, the most talented player I've watched on the team in my 53 years, locked up for 5 more seasons. The numbers aren't great and they aren't horrible. It's definitely a positive story overall. Especially the fact that guys like him, Morgan, William and Mitch *want* to be here. Be happy! It's Friday!

 

[Gary Nylund]

To me the whole story is the Toronto Maple Leafs have Auston Matthews, the most talented player I've watched on the team in my 53 years, locked up for 5 more seasons. The numbers aren't great and they aren't horrible. It's definitely a positive story overall. Especially the fact that guys like him, Morgan, William and Mitch *want* to be here. Be happy! It's Friday!

Why "especially that? Why wouldn't they want to be here? I can't remember us ever having a star player who didn't want to be here and I've been following this gong show for over 50 years.

 

[ACC1224]

To me the whole story is the Toronto Maple Leafs have Auston Matthews, the most talented player I've watched on the team in my 53 years, locked up for 5 more seasons. The numbers aren't great and they aren't horrible. It's definitely a positive story overall. Especially the fact that guys like him, Morgan, William and Mitch *want* to be here. Be happy! It's Friday!

 

[AvroArrow]

To me the whole story is the Toronto Maple Leafs have Auston Matthews, the most talented player I've watched on the team in my 53 years, locked up for 5 more seasons. The numbers aren't great and they aren't horrible. It's definitely a positive story overall. Especially the fact that guys like him, Morgan, William and Mitch *want* to be here. Be happy! It's Friday!

underrated post.

People here pretending like he wouldn't have got 14M+ on the open market

He chose to stay in Toronto and took less than what he would've got as a UFA

Given the situation Treliving was in, he did a phenomenal job. And also Matthews deserves some credit as well, he could have waited until his contract ran out and then been arguably the biggest UFA player ever. When was the last time a player like him was a UFA in the middle of his prime, 26 years old ? I can't ever remember that happening. He would've got a fortune.

But he's here in Toronto for at least 5 more years, I am going to enjoy it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

underrated post.

People here pretending like he wouldn't have got 14M+ on the open market

He chose to stay in Toronto and took less than what he would've got as a UFA

Given the situation Treliving was in, he did a phenomenal job. And also Matthews deserves some credit as well, he could have waited until his contract ran out and then been arguably the biggest UFA player ever. When was the last time a player like him was a UFA in the middle of his prime, 26 years old ? I can't ever remember that happening. He would've got a fortune.

But he's here in Toronto for at least 5 more years, I am going to enjoy it.

So you'll be ok with Mitch seeking similar money then? You know, because he "chose" to stay?

And UFA is a toally different ballpark. And good luck getting the signing bonuses, endorsements and the option to have contracts heavily front-loaded in most cities

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Have heard a couple stories through the grapevine this summer that confirmed my suspicions: dude really likes to party. He needs a good clean offseason to reclaim Hart contending form. I can't watch withdrawals Matthews tripping over his own feet every game again at that cap %

Also, you know, for his general well-being.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Why "especially that? Why wouldn't they want to be here? I can't remember us ever having a star player who didn't want to be here and I've been following this gong show for over 50 years.

Well, O'Reilly sent out some weird signals about the state of the dressing room I found disturbing. I feel better now.

 

[Sypher04]

Have heard a couple stories through the grapevine this summer that confirmed my suspicions: dude really likes to party. He needs a good clean offseason to reclaim Hart contending form. I can't watch withdrawals Matthews tripping over his own feet every game again at that cap %

Also, you know, for his general well-being.

I think posts like this, which certainly appear to be insinuating that he's a drug addict are not even remotely responsible posting and entirely unnecessary. Crap like this tends to take on a life of it's own once people start saying it like it's a fact, based on nothing.

Even IF you did hear these somehow, it'd be nothing but hearsay, which confirms nothing and is in 99% of scenarios most likely completely fabricated.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Well, O'Reilly sent out some weird signals about the state of the dressing room I found disturbing. I feel better now.

Right, I'd forgotten about that. IIRC that was all so vague, didn't know what to make of it myself.

I think posts like this, which certainly appear to be insinuating that he's a drug addict are not even remotely responsible posting and entirely unnecessary. Crap like this tends to take on a life of it's own once people start saying it like it's a fact, based on nothing.

Even IF you did hear these somehow, it'd be nothing but hearsay, which confirms nothing and is in 99% of scenarios most likely completely fabricated.

+1

 

[TIGERCOOL]

I think posts like this, which certainly appear to be insinuating that he's a drug addict are not even remotely responsible posting and entirely unnecessary. Crap like this tends to take on a life of it's own once people start saying it like it's a fact, based on nothing.

Even IF you did hear these somehow, it'd be nothing but hearsay, which confirms nothing and is in 99% of scenarios most likely completely fabricated.

I suggested it last season based on his appearance, lethargic/clumsy play, and the company he keeps in the offseason. Now I've heard it from someone who dated him. A tendancy to party is not unusual for young hockey players, but the ones who get that rock star personality and status in big markets are more prone to issues. See: Price, Seguin, Lupul.

It doesn't mean Matthews is addicted to drugs, that was an exaggeration, but it's a slippery slope. At the very least it can impact his conditioning and commitment. Now we've got rumours floating around about him always being the last guy on the ice at practice and the first one off. I'm seeing smoke.

When you sign that kind of contract you subject yourself to speculation. I hope he shows up looking healthy and refreshed and puts my mind at ease. Maybe it was just a big summer after his 60 goal Hart season.

 

[francis246]

Well, O'Reilly sent out some weird signals about the state of the dressing room I found disturbing. I feel better now.

I think that was more directed towards Keefe, don't think he agreed with the coaching decisions during the Florida series. I also think O'Reilly probably wanted to play with Marner again. That line was pretty dominant and we never saw it again.

 

[IPS]

I think that was more directed towards Keefe, don't think he agreed with the coaching decisions during the Florida series. I also think O'Reilly probably wanted to play with Marner again. That line was pretty dominant and we never saw it again.

ROR is a drama queen and an asshole. Lots of mixed opinions about him around different circles

 

[CabanaBoy5]

I think that was more directed towards Keefe, don't think he agreed with the coaching decisions during the Florida series. I also think O'Reilly probably wanted to play with Marner again. That line was pretty dominant and we never saw it again.

I agree about it being directed at Keefe. They played his first game together, he scores two goals, and then for some reason Keefe was reluctant to play them together. Granted ROR did get injured for a time. Keefe has to be amenable to changing up his lineup if it isn't working, and conversely, stick with it if it does.

 

[Arzak]

I also love how pasta who has NEVER won a Stanley cup either is always thrown into the mix. Guess paying him what the bruins pay him isn’t the way to win a cup

True story.

But they saw SCF with Pasta. Something we'll experience in the next 40 years with a little luck keeping the steady progress going..


Matthews's contract is fine. As long as he is not Marner's comparable.

ROR is a drama queen and an asshole. Lots of mixed opinions about him around different circles

Funny how he was a character guy who should have installed some leadership here not that long ago.

 

[francis246]

True story.

But they saw SCF with Pasta. Something we'll experience in the next 40 years with a little luck keeping the steady progress going..


Matthews's contract is fine. As long as he is not Marner's comparable.



Funny how he was a character guy who should have installed some leadership here not that long ago.

I think this core will see a final tbh or parts of it anyways. I get people are really jaded but idc, always gonna love the leafs and have optimism. I enjoy every season cause I don’t hang onto things that I can’t control as a fan.

Don’t really think the Marner negotiation is going to be tough at all. I think this time around the Marner negotiation will be the easiest of the 3. He gets a lot of hate for no reason. Contract isn’t even up and people are putting words in his mouth and assuming things lol.

O’Reilly has had his difficulties at different stops throughout the NHL.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I think this core will see a final tbh or parts of it anyways. I get people are really jaded but idc, always gonna love the leafs and have optimism. I enjoy every season cause I don’t hang onto things that I can’t control as a fan.

Don’t really think the Marner negotiation is going to be tough at all. I think this time around the Marner negotiation will be the easiest of the 3. He gets a lot of hate for no reason. Contract isn’t even up and people are putting words in his mouth and assuming things lol.

O’Reilly has had his difficulties at different stops throughout the NHL.

Sure, all Trev has to do is bend over and give him his 12.9 mil for 6 years. Easy peasy lemon squeezy.

 

[pcruz]

I suggested it last season based on his appearance, lethargic/clumsy play, and the company he keeps in the offseason. Now I've heard it from someone who dated him. A tendancy to party is not unusual for young hockey players, but the ones who get that rock star personality and status in big markets are more prone to issues. See: Price, Seguin, Lupul.

It doesn't mean Matthews is addicted to drugs, that was an exaggeration, but it's a slippery slope. At the very least it can impact his conditioning and commitment. Now we've got rumours floating around about him always being the last guy on the ice at practice and the first one off. I'm seeing smoke.

When you sign that kind of contract you subject yourself to speculation. I hope he shows up looking healthy and refreshed and puts my mind at ease. Maybe it was just a big summer after his 60 goal Hart season.

Is that so?

What about the contract makes him open to wild speculation that would otherwise fall into the category of defamation?

It can't be the length of the contract, that's some of the stupidest logic possible.

It's not that he's a pro athlete, because we're not speculating about all 800 NHL players.

It has to be the value.

So, at what salary does one "subject yourself to speculation"?


Pray tell.

 

[notbias]

When it comes to the Salary Cap (which is the same for all) the Leafs sadly are forced to pay Matthews a luxuary tax penalty of $13.25 mil, while Edmonton will pay McDavid $12.5 mil and Colorado paying MacKinnon $12.6 mil and Boston for Pasta $11.25 mil.

Since Matthews has the highest Cap hit % of every player in the NHL the Leafs are at a disadvantage having to use more of their Salary Cap max, which leaves less for the supporting cast. Doing it for an elite star player who is among the best goal scorers in the NHL is easier to swallow and making an exception in one thing. but ....

Where Leafs are getting into Cap Hell is because they're doing that same for Tavares at $11 mil and Marner at $10.9 mil.. Arguing Matthews $ > Pasta is one thing but seeing Pasta put up 61 goals and 113 points for $11.25 mil and then trying to convince yourself Tavares and Marner are also worth their overpayments.

Tampa Bay star players took less and won Cups together like my Point vs Marner post proved, and Leafs overpayments = early exits as a result of Leaf players picking personal wealth over team success.

McDavid, MacKinnon, and Pastrnak all ducked out early in the playoffs despite these low caps you think they have.

"Tampa star plays took less" and just got bounced by our overpaid crap players.