Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

[The Blue Devil]

JS Aubin was Raycrofts backup during his 37 win season.

So when Raycroft was in...the Leafs almost made the playoffs.

When Raycroft was out and Aubin played....the Leafs did not win and were terrible and one of the worst teams in the game.


With Kessel on the roster....the Leafs are dog crap.
WIth Kessel not on the roster...the Leafs are STILL DOG CRAP!!!!!!!!

So lets analyze here...Kessel cost more and the team is still crap whether hes on it or not....Raycroft cost less and the team succeeded when he was on it.

Hmm?? Hard to tell which has been a worse trade so far.

It could change but its awful compared to the Rask trade. Rask hasnt even landed a starting job. We'll see if hes up to it.

What did you think of Reimer and Gustavsson?

 

[The Apologist]

OMG wow! How long have you been following the Leafs? Everyone and their unborn child should know that Raycroft came after aubin. After watching Raycroft we got the pleasure of watching the most pitiful goal-tending perfomance in Leafs history in Vesa Toskala.

Get out of here with those facts... No place for those here.

 

[Bomber0104]

What did you think of Reimer and Gustavsson?

Reimer was good until he got bonked in the head.

I ****ing hate monster so much. Glad hes gone.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Giving up *2* HOF of players for a rental of a good offensive player on a crappy team for 5 years.

I know, I know way out there. But if you noticed my posts I never suggested that the Kessel trade was the worst trade in Leafs history. I was just arguing the notion that it couldnt possibly in a million years turn out that way.

Never, It's been explained why many times in this thread.

 

[Urban Explorer*]

I wouldn't disagree with that though. Was Niedermayer ever a Leaf?

The fact is, it makes for better debate, but pointless debate. We have no idea where those picks are without Kessel, and who we draft.

Again, we traded two firsts and a second.

I think most of the discussions on this board are pointless in the grand scheme of things. But it sure is fun

 

[The Apologist]

Giving up *2* HOF of players for a rental of a good offensive player on a crappy team for 5 years.

I know, I know way out there. But if you noticed my posts I never suggested that the Kessel trade was the worst trade in Leafs history. I was just arguing the notion that it couldnt possibly in a million years turn out that way.

It could. Or it could turn into the best in Leafs History. Aren't outlandish hypotheticals fun?

 

[Bomber0104]

Get out of here with those facts... No place for those here.

If u didnt ignore me like a child you would see how badly my post exposes the kessel trade as one of the worst leafs trades ever in modern history....with potential to get worse....or less likely get better.

Still one of the worst tho! And its all Burkes fault.

 

[diceman934]

Yes, but what if Kessel re-signs long term, becomes our all time leading scorer, and wins a Stanley Cup? Could be the best trade in Leaf history.

It would be considered a very good trade, but none of the above is likely to happen.....he will never become our all time leading scorer.....I can only hope that we will win the cup again....

Best trade in the history of the modern day Leafs is the Rick Vaive, along with Bill Derlago, to Toronto for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler.

Vaive scored 255 goals for us over 7 seasons. Derlago scored 158 goals over the same 7 seasons.

Williams and Butter scored a total of 102 goals between the them.

 

[Bomber0104]

It could. Or it could turn into the best in Leafs History. Aren't outlandish hypotheticals fun?

It will never turn into the best. THat's out of the realm of possibility right now since Seguin has been signed to a six year contract and DOugie Hamilton hasn't even finished puberty.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Reimer was good until he got bonked in the head.

I ****ing hate monster so much. Glad hes gone.

You do realize that they both had similar SV% and GAA #'s to Raycroft in his "great" year right? They just didn't have the benefit of playing 72 games.

 

[The Blue Devil]

If u didnt ignore me like a child you would see how badly my post exposes the kessel trade as one of the worst leafs trades ever in modern history....with potential to get worse....or less likely get better.

Still one of the worst tho! And its all Burkes fault.

 

[The Apologist]

I think most of the discussions on this board are pointless in the grand scheme of things. But it sure is fun

It was. Three million threads and a DO ago, now anytime the trade is mentioned at all, my mind instantly goes to mush and maniacal laughter ensues. No offense to you.

 

[Bomber0104]

You do realize that they both had similar SV% and GAA #'s to Raycroft in his "great" year right? They just didn't have the benefit of playing 72 games.

Reimers good I won't deny it. But he didn't get traded for a starter so theres no real reason to compare.

 

[newfy]

Dear lord another NEwfy Wings fan. Do they grow you guys on trees out there or something?


I do believe I later said Smith deserved more credit than I had earlier gave him. BUt that's ok if you want to ignore that post.

Nyquist and Kadri put up similar numbers in the AHL. That is what I am talking about. Not what they were doing 3 years ago.

Didnt ignore that post, just had clicked enough posts to reply to that I stopped reading because you had already said about 5 times that Smith is nothing special.

But you probably shouldnt post about prospects if youre going to say prospects are the same based off of stats. You ignore one of Nyquists biggest strengths his defensive play, and one of Kadris weakest. Theyre essentially the same offensive player, one of which has always been considered one of the hardest working players on his team nad great defensively and one who is considered to be a bit lazy at times and isnt great defensively.

If you look at stats you wont notice these things so maybe you shuoldnt rant about prospects so much lol

 

[The Apologist]

It would be considered a very good trade, but none of the above is likely to happen.....he will never become our all time leading scorer.....I can only hope that we will win the cup again....

Best trade in the history of the modern day Leafs is the Rick Vaive, along with Bill Derlago, to Toronto for Tiger Williams and Jerry Butler.

Vaive scored 255 goals for us over 7 seasons. Derlago scored 158 goals over the same 7 seasons.

Williams and Butter scored a total of 102 goals between the them.

Why will it never happen?

 

[The Blue Devil]

It will never turn into the best. THat's out of the realm of possibility right now since Seguin has been signed to a six year contract and DOugie Hamilton hasn't even finished puberty.

He's actually over 18 you know that age when you become an adult.

 

[Bomber0104]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Kessel needs to be extended to a team friendly deal.

That way we have the ability to move him and keep our cap steady.

Maybe if he starts getting fat and slow we can trade him to improve our prospect pool for the hockey news and hockeys future. Then you guys can argue with me about how flawed and unreliable it is. I'll be saying our prospects ARE actually good thanks to the expert opinion, and you guys will be tearing it to shreads right??

 

[Urban Explorer*]

Never, It's been explained why many times in this thread.

HYPOTHETICAL ALERT] Just because we got Modano doesn't mean it's not the worst trade ever if we lost gretzky and coffee. /HYPOTHETICAL ALERT]

 

[diceman934]

No, giving up a HOF player for Kurvers was the worst trade in history.

It was a horrible trade and in the top 3 no doubt.

Worse trade was the Lanny McDonald trade: McDonald along with Joel Quenneville, in exchange for Wilf Paiement and Pat Hickey.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Reimers good I won't deny it. But he didn't get traded for a starter so theres no real reason to compare.

I wasn't comparing how they were acquired.

Seeing as how you hated Gus, I guess it would be painful to know that his #'s last year were better than Raycrofts so called "great" year. He just never had the benefit of playing 72 games.

 

[Urban Explorer*]

I think one thing we can all agree on is that Kessel needs to be extended to a team friendly deal.

That way we have the ability to move him and keep our cap steady.

Maybe if he starts getting fat and slow we can trade him to improve our prospect pool for the hockey news and hockeys future. Then you guys can argue with me about how flawed and unreliable it is. I'll be saying our prospects ARE actually good thanks to the expert opinion, and you guys will be tearing it to shreads right??

I think they'd be too busy planning the parade

 

[crump]

Oh look. Kessel trade talk.

3 years after and the best NHL player in the deal is who?

Still waiting for someone to be better than Kessel.

 

[Bomber0104]

I wasn't comparing how they were acquired.

Seeing as how you hated Gus, I guess it would be painful to know that his #'s last year were better than Raycrofts so called "great" year. He just never had the benefit of playing 72 games.

This changes nothing.

With Raycroft: almost playoffs
With AUbin: no playoffs

With Kessel: no playoffs
WIthout Kessel: no playoffs

Kessel cost a metric ton of prospects
Raycroft cost one excellent prospect.

 

[The Apologist]

HYPOTHETICAL ALERT] Just because we got Modano doesn't mean it's not the worst trade ever if we lost gretzky and coffee. /HYPOTHETICAL ALERT]

Oh oh my turn.

What if...

We have the next Jagr, and only gave up Tyler Seguin, Aki berg and wade belak?

(you started it by comparing Kessel to Modano so any outlandish claim can now be made )

 

[Urban Explorer*]

Bottom line is we have to be dealing with the loss of HOF players to consider a trade to be the "worst" of all time for the Leafs. The Leafs set a pretty high bar for worst trades

Most likely the Kessel trade won't turn out to be the worst ever, unless Seguin or Hamilton become a HOFer or atleast both of them turn out to be perennial all-stars. EDIT: oh yea and Kessel walks too