Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

[Grant]

Lol, just move on cl, it's hopeless.

That's what I am doing now. I feel like what I'm saying isn't even being read. No point continuing from my end.

 

[Bomber0104]

Sometimes you have to look at what you lost and not what you received. If Seguin and Hamilton turn out to be hart trophy players and Kessel walks for nothing, it would be hard to not mention it among the worst trades of all times (in the grand scheme of things, not a season by season basis)

exactly.

We lost Niedermayer. So what.

We lost Seguin and Hamilton. Two players.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I'll tell you this... I trust the Hockey News rankings more than HF. (created by consensus of professional nhl scouts).
But both have the leafs listed as 20th anyways.

Are you still clinging to the argument of "but I 'like' the leafs, so that meas they're the best"? or have you matured past forming opinions like that?

When did anyone say that?

 

[charliolemieux]

Lol, just move on cl, it's hopeless.

Man it's like a bad episode of the twilight zone.

 

[diceman934]

Are you looking at different Chicago/ Detroit/ Toronto rankings than I am?

Not at all......the people who rank them think that both Chicago and Detroit have a better overall group of prospects.....I do not know enough about all the prospects but understand that they do....and I trust the rankings.

We lack high end prospects ....lots of our top prospects are currently going backwards and some of the young one's are not even dressing.....this does not inspire a lot of confidence in our prospects.

 

[The Apologist]

When did anyone say that?

They didn't.

 

[Bomber0104]

Yes, and we always take the bait. Not this time. Moving on lol. I'd suggest you do the same.

You guys have no answer because you know you dont know more than a scouting panel of NHL scouts and have to resort to ignoring reality.

Thats all thats going on here. Nothing more.

I myself am proud to say I dont spend enuf time scouting every prospect around the league. I guess your guys' ego doesnt allow you to admit that very simple fact.

 

[The Blue Devil]

seems to me thats exactly the argument. Theres no possible way anyone posting on the Leafs section of hfboards has spent more time than anyone writing for the hockeys future or the hockey news or anyone.

But that teeny tiny little fact doesnt matter to them or even concern them at all.

Then you clearly have reading comprehension issues.

 

[charliolemieux]

Yes, and we always take the bait. Not this time. Moving on lol. I'd suggest you do the same.

That's what I am doing now. I feel like what I'm saying isn't even being read. No point continuing from my end.

Ya they refuse to acknowledge the facts and just make **** up anyways.

Should just go to bed I guess.

 

[The Blue Devil]

so if the hockeys future rankings are as unreliable as u think it is, why do u assume that means the Leafs are automatically better than they say? If its unreliable why dont you account for the possibility that the Leafs could in reality be 21st or worst in the league?

Oh ya, cuz ur completely biased.

He never said that. I dare you to try and prove me wrong.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ya they refuse to acknowledge the facts and just make **** up anyways.

Should just go to bed I guess.

The fact is that you dont know more than a panel of scouts do.

Thats the only fact that needs to be said.

If you acknowledged that fact, you would realize youd have no argument against the hockey news and ultimately hockeys future for rating the LEafs 20th out of 30 teams (bottom ten) in the league after being the worst team in modern day NHL history.!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Apologist]

Not at all......the people who rank them think that both Chicago and Detroit have a better overall group of prospects.....I do not know enough about all the prospects but understand that they do....and I trust the rankings.

We lack high end prospects ....lots of our top prospects are currently going backwards and some of the young one's are not even dressing.....this does not inspire a lot of confidence in our prospects.

But their individual rankings of the prospects tell a completely different story. A breakdown was provided earlier. I could see if one team had significantly more average prospects to counter the fact that they rank Torontos individual prospects better, but this isn't the case. Their team rankings fly in the face of their individual ones.

 

[Bomber0104]

He never said that. I dare you to try and prove me wrong.

settle down there bub. thats exactly what hes hinting at.

 

[The Apologist]

Then you clearly have reading comprehension issues.

This has been established already.

 

[The Apologist]

Ya they refuse to acknowledge the facts and just make **** up anyways.

Should just go to bed I guess.

Thats one option, no reason we can't have a normal discussion on here and ignore the riffraff.

 

[diceman934]

Ya they refuse to acknowledge the facts and just make **** up anyways.

Should just go to bed I guess.

The funny thing is......both of you complaining about people referring to the Kessel trade when this trade cost us two very high Draft picks...this subject has everything to do with why our prospect group is not ranked as high as it should.

Also why the hell did we trade our 2nd pick 39th over all to draft a player who's upside currently is a 3rd line player.......these are the reasons why we lack prospects.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I think you people are getting confused about what you're arguing over.

1. Yes the kessel trade is better than the other 3 trades because the leafs actually got a good player instead of nothing.

2. Yes the kessel trade "could" be the worst trade of them all because if he walks after his contract and seguin and hamilton turn into hart, selke, norris candidates the Leafs would have gotten spectacularly hosed in the grand scheme of things, even more hosed than the niedermeyer deal. (and look pretty dumb)

So in essence, both sides are right as of now. But only the future holds the true answer.

Can everyone agree with that?

Not really, no.

Even if Kessel walks and the others become great, we still got more out of Kessel than anything we got from the other trades.

 

[Bomber0104]

Thats one option, no reason we can't have a normal discussion on here and ignore the riffraff.

Conspiracy theories arent what most people call normal discussions.

VEry immature actually and could be a sign of some underlying issue in my own opinion.

I mean you went on record here saying that Hockeys Future, the host of this site youre using, makes the rankings a certain way "to troll Leafs fans" your words not mine..

so...uh........is the next logical thing to talk about aliens or jfk assassination theories...or what? You tell me conspiracy guy!

 

[The Apologist]

The funny thing is......both of you complaining about people referring to the Kessel trade when this trade cost us two very high Draft picks...this subject has everything to do with why our prospect group is not ranked as high as it should.

Also why the hell did we trade our 2nd pick 39th over all to draft a player who's upside currently is a 3rd line player.......these are the reasons why we lack prospects.

because the Kessel deal has been discussed ad nauseum. There is nothing new to say. Anyway, sorry I said anything, feel free to continue. Back to my *****ing about the trolling of leaf nation.

 

[Bomber0104]

Not really, no.

Even if Kessel walks and the others become great, we still got more out of Kessel than anything we got from the other trades.

Raycroft took us closer to the playoffs than Kessel has even come close to. Kessel hasn't "got" us anything.

Raycroft has a wins record. Kessel has no points records.

So youre simply wrong. Just wrong. Trry to provide substance to your opinions.

 

[Bomber0104]

The funny thing is......both of you complaining about people referring to the Kessel trade when this trade cost us two very high Draft picks...this subject has everything to do with why our prospect group is not ranked as high as it should.

Also why the hell did we trade our 2nd pick 39th over all to draft a player who's upside currently is a 3rd line player.......these are the reasons why we lack prospects.

THis is true.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Raycroft took us closer to the playoffs. He has a record for wins.

Phil Kessel has led us to the sewer of the league every year and has no record for points.

He could be a member of another team after next year and that will be all we received in return for Seguin Hamilton and our other draft pick.

So yes the trade could be much worse than any of those.

Raycroft is tied for wins and he played about 10-15 more games than Eddie. 37 wins with 72 starts, a below .900 SV% and an above 2.00 GAA is not very good or helpful at all.

 

[Bomber0104]

Raycroft is tied for wins and he played about 10-15 more games than Eddie. 37 wins with 72 starts, a below .900 SV% and an above 2.00 GAA is not very good or helpful at all.

He "got" us closer to the playoffs than Kessel.

Kessel so far has "got" Toronto 2nd last, 9th last, and 5th last.

Raycroft cost one prospect and "got" us more.

Kessel cost two better prospects and "got" us less.

 

[The Blue Devil]

They didn't.

I know, but I'd like to see one of these clowns prove something for once.

 

[diceman934]

Not really, no.

Even if Kessel walks and the others become great, we still got more out of Kessel than anything we got from the other trades.

If Kessel walks and the others turn out Great.....it would be the worst trade in our history......