Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

[The Blue Devil]

This has been established already.

I'm late to the party, just trying to catch up.

 

[The Apologist]

If Kessel walks and the other turn out Great.....it would be the worst trade in our history......

Yes, but what if Kessel re-signs long term, becomes our all time leading scorer, and wins a Stanley Cup? Could be the best trade in Leaf history.

 

[The Blue Devil]

He "got" us closer to the playoffs than Kessel.

Kessel so far has "got" Toronto 2nd last, 9th last, and 5th last.

Raycroft cost one prospect and "got" us more.

Kessel cost two better prospects and "got" us less.

Raycroft, unlike Kessel was surrounded by a more veteran team. He had very little to do with the Leafs getting close to the playoffs.

 

[Bomber0104]

I know, but I'd like to see one of these clowns prove something for once.

alternatively,

you guys can prove how much more you know about prospects than the hockey news scounting panel( across the NHL, CHL, AHL, and Europe and PROVE) why they are wrong, underrating the Leafs, and TROLLING THEM!

Prove it.

Make a list.

 

[The Blue Devil]

If Kessel walks and the others turn out Great.....it would be the worst trade in our history......

No, giving up a HOF player for Kurvers was the worst trade in history.

 

[The Apologist]

I'm late to the party, just trying to catch up.

Ahh, I can give you cliff notes if you like. I think we lost chario. Probably wanted some adult conversation.

 

[Urban Explorer*]

Not really, no.

Even if Kessel walks and the others become great, we still got more out of Kessel than anything we got from the other trades.

I agree with you 100% that we got more out of the Kessel trade than the other 3 trades in terms of player value coming in. But you have to also consider what was lost going out.

If Kessel walks after his contract, if we don't resign him or trade him for valuable assests and the leafs dont do any better in the final 2 years of his contract at the end of the day his 30 goal seasons will pretty much mean nothing. The same thing essentially as Kurvers brought the leafs.

I compare trades by the value they bring the team, not individual success. So far in my opinion Seguin and Hamilton haven't done anything to suggest we lost something greater than the likes of niedermeyer. But if Seguin and/or Hamilton who could of been ours and are on sweet contracts for a while turn into players of niedermeyer quality, you could argue that this was the worst trade.

It's a very unlikely scenario how it seems to be playing out now, but it's still a possibility.

 

[charliolemieux]

I know, but I'd like to see one of these clowns prove something for once.

That would be like winning the lottery. Well maybe not, but the odds are close.

 

[The Apologist]

Raycroft, unlike Kessel was surrounded by a more veteran team. He had very little to do with the Leafs getting close to the playoffs.

Dude, he's clearly the best goaltender in Leafs history.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Ahh, I can give you cliff notes if you like. I think we lost chario. Probably wanted some adult conversation.

Nah it's cool. I've had to put up with their pitiful excuses for an argument the past couple of days now.

 

[Bomber0104]

Raycroft, unlike Kessel was surrounded by a more veteran team. He had very little to do with the Leafs getting close to the playoffs.

No he backstopped them to victory. The most important position is goalie and he did a good job getting us 37 wins and close to the playoffs.

Kessel, whether he has been on or off the team has resulting in the Leafs being one of the worst teams in the league.

With him.........****

Without him..........****

So really Kessel and all his dazzling points hasnt got us anything. Nothing but last place finishes.

Raycroft did something more than that, and cost MUCH LESS!

 

[charliolemieux]

Ahh, I can give you cliff notes if you like. I think we lost chario. Probably wanted some adult conversation.

Pretty much.

I'm about done for the night.

It was an experience.

 

[The Blue Devil]

That would be like winning the lottery. Well maybe not, but the odds are close.

Maybe we should all go buy lotto tickets and see which happens first. I could use a couple mil.

 

[Bomber0104]

Dude, he's clearly the best goaltender in Leafs history.

With Raycroft..........almost to the playoffs
Without Raycroft (JS AUBIN!)..... terrible

With Kessel.......sewer of the NHL
Without Kessel..... sewer of the NHL

Kessel cost WAY MORE and DELIVERED WAY LESS

LOSE LOSE!!!!!!!!!

 

[The Apologist]

I agree with you 100% that we got more out of the Kessel trade than the other 3 trades in terms of player value coming in. But you have to also consider what was lost going out.

If Kessel walks after his contract, if we don't resign him or trade him for valuable assests and the leafs dont do any better in the final 2 years of his contract at the end of the day his 30 goal seasons will pretty much mean nothing. The same thing essentially as Kurvers brought the leafs.

I compare trades by the value they bring the team, not individual success. So far in my opinion Seguin and Hamilton haven't done anything to suggest we lost something greater than the likes of niedermeyer. But if Seguin and/or Hamilton who could of been ours and are on sweet contracts for a while turn into players of niedermeyer quality, you could argue that this was the worst trade.

It's a very unlikely scenario how it seems to be playing out now, but it's still a possibility.

Ughhh, I didn't wanna go there....

We lost two firsts and a second. Seguin, Hamilton and Knight were never Leaf property.

We gained Phil Kessel. He's never failed to break 30 goals on a terrible Leafs team. He was PPG on a terrible Leafs team.

Again, what if everything I mentioned above happens? What then?

 

[The Blue Devil]

No he backstopped them to victory. The most important position is goalie and he did a good job getting us 37 wins and close to the playoffs.

Kessel, whether he has been on or off the team has resulting in the Leafs being one of the worst teams in the league.

With him.........****

Without him..........****

So really Kessel and all his dazzling points hasnt got us anything. Nothing but last place finishes.

Raycroft did something more than that, and cost MUCH LESS!

 

[Bomber0104]

Maybe we should all go buy lotto tickets and see which happens first. I could use a couple mil.

Well charlo and JK can apparently see years into the future so ask them for numbers.

 

[The Apologist]

Pretty much.

I'm about done for the night.

It was an experience.

That it was. Back on topic, HF makes no sense.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ughhh, I didn't wanna go there....

We lost two firsts and a second. Seguin, Hamilton and Knight were never Leaf property.

We gained Phil Kessel. He's never failed to break 30 goals on a terrible Leafs team. He was PPG on a terrible Leafs team.

Again, what if everything I mentioned above happens? What then?

Okay in that case we didn't trade Niedermayer.

We traded a 1st rounder.

 

[Urban Explorer*]

Ughhh, I didn't wanna go there....

We lost two firsts and a second. Seguin, Hamilton and Knight were never Leaf property.

We gained Phil Kessel. He's never failed to break 30 goals on a terrible Leafs team. He was PPG on a terrible Leafs team.

Again, what if everything I mentioned above happens? What then?

I can counteract with the Leafs lost the 3rd overall pick not Scott Niedermeyer. We might as well use the players, instead of their draft numbers. It makes a more interesting debate

 

[The Blue Devil]

With Raycroft..........almost to the playoffs
Without Raycroft (JS AUBIN!)..... terrible

With Kessel.......sewer of the NHL
Without Kessel..... sewer of the NHL

Kessel cost WAY MORE and DELIVERED WAY LESS

LOSE LOSE!!!!!!!!!

OMG wow! How long have you been following the Leafs? Everyone and their unborn child should know that Raycroft came after aubin. After watching Raycroft we got the pleasure of watching the most pitiful goal-tending perfomance in Leafs history in Vesa Toskala.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I agree with you 100% that we got more out of the Kessel trade than the other 3 trades in terms of player value coming in. But you have to also consider what was lost going out.

If Kessel walks after his contract, if we don't resign him or trade him for valuable assests and the leafs dont do any better in the final 2 years of his contract at the end of the day his 30 goal seasons will pretty much mean nothing. The same thing essentially as Kurvers brought the leafs.

I compare trades by the value they bring the team, not individual success. So far in my opinion Seguin and Hamilton haven't done anything to suggest we lost something greater than the likes of niedermeyer. But if Seguin and/or Hamilton who could of been ours and are on sweet contracts for a while turn into players of niedermeyer quality, you could argue that this was the worst trade.

It's a very unlikely scenario how it seems to be playing out now, but it's still a possibility.

So that's worse then giving up a HOF Dman for Kurvers?

 

[The Apologist]

I can counteract with the Leafs lost the 3rd overall pick not Scott Niedermeyer. We might as well use the players, instead of their draft numbers. It makes a more interesting debate

I wouldn't disagree with that though. Was Niedermayer ever a Leaf?

The fact is, it makes for better debate, but pointless debate. We have no idea where those picks are without Kessel, and who we draft.

Again, we traded two firsts and a second.

 

[Bomber0104]

OMG wow! How long have you been following the Leafs? Everyone and their unborn child should know that Raycroft came after aubin. After watching Raycroft we got the pleasure of watching the most pitiful goal-tending perfomance in Leafs history in Vesa Toskala.

JS Aubin was Raycrofts backup during his 37 win season.

So when Raycroft was in...the Leafs almost made the playoffs.

When Raycroft was out and Aubin played....the Leafs did not win and were terrible and one of the worst teams in the game.


With Kessel on the roster....the Leafs are dog crap.
WIth Kessel not on the roster...the Leafs are STILL DOG CRAP!!!!!!!!

So lets analyze here...Kessel cost more and the team is still crap whether hes on it or not....Raycroft cost less and the team succeeded when he was on it.

Hmm?? Hard to tell which has been a worse trade so far.

It could change but its awful compared to the Rask trade. Rask hasnt even landed a starting job. We'll see if hes up to it.

 

[Urban Explorer*]

So that's worse then giving up a HOF Dman for Kurvers?

Giving up *2* HOF of players for a rental of a good offensive player on a crappy team for 5 years.

I know, I know way out there. But if you noticed my posts I never suggested that the Kessel trade was the worst trade in Leafs history. I was just arguing the notion that it couldnt possibly in a million years turn out that way.