Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

[Bomber0104]

Dude we don't have to wait for ****!

Ask anybody.

There is no way the Kessel deal is worse than the three I brought up.

Thats even if Seguin wins the art Ross 5x and Hamilton is a 6x Norris winner.

No matter how bad the deal looks 5 years from now it won't be worse than those other three.


That's a nice little rant you had there.
So you are admitting you have no answer to "Who should replace Burke?"

Same **** as all you guys before. Hate him but got no one better for the job.

No I'm right. Boston has one a cup after trading Kessel. Toronto has been one of the worst teams in the league.

Toskala for Eller? Wow. Are you actually hurt by that? Well I'm about 20 times as hurt about the Kessel deal because that trade meant jack ****.

Rask was bad but he's led the Bruins no where. He was a backup for the Cup win and had no impact on them going anywhere so far. His time is coming.

Kessel could bolt for free agency or ruin the Leafs cap situation for years to come while Boston continues to win without him and Seguin. Hamilton. etc.

The information isn't in yet and you can't conclusively state that it wont be as bad because YOU CANT SEE THE FUTURE.

For all you know the Bruins can win another 10 Cups while the Leafs continue to miss the playoffs for another 10 years.

You can't see into the future.



As for your other comment, ive told you many times. I AM NOT A HOCKEY NERD TO THE POINT WHERE I KNOW EVERY LAST ****ING LEAGUE EXECUTIVE AND THE MOVES THEYVE MADE!

I let other people worry about that while all I care about is MY TEAM AND THE RESULTS!

Theyve been the worst team in the league since Burke has been here, Nonis too, and have a prospect pool that is PERCEIVED to be below average across the league.

That is so ****ing wrong for a team that has been so putrid for so long.

 

[charliolemieux]

I did and guess what? People's consensus back then was that Kadri was an untouchable future star for the Leafs. This is a fact. Go back to 2009 and read. I was there. IT happened. The boosters now deny it. You joined in 2010 so you are late to the party.
You can't honestly tell me Kadris stock has NOT fallen over the years dramatically. Well he has amongst the fanbase too apparently.

Ofcourse I can't tell you Kadri's stock has not fallen.

We turned down the Kaberle + Kadri for Kessel offer. In hind sight that was a mistake, but at the time we weren't planning on being 29th the next year.

Lmao. What if I said this is my 10th incarnation at HFboards?

It isn't but I was here a long time before joining, and was a mod at another hockey site. Search it if you want, someone on here thought it was an insult. I thanked him for the advertisement to the other site.

What if I am a 60yr old hockey fanatic who just learned to use a computer?

You posted earlier that you thought Stepan was the NYR's #1 center.

And you want to question my credibility based on the day I joined?

 

[Bomber0104]

Losing Nieds hurt, we also lost Lou and Rask.

Imagine we had a prime Lou with a prime Niedemeyer on our squad pre-lockout.

Absolutely despicable trade. No doubt about it.

We'll see if the Kessel deal will compare one day when it is all said and done.

 

[The Blue Devil]

yeah but toronto has neither. they dont have the allusion or perception (there..just for you...nothing concrete) of a good prospect system or a good team (obviously since theyve been one the THE WORST teams in the league since the lockout..)

So really you'd have to be a pretty bad manager after absent mindedly icing the worst team in the league constantly to not even have a respectable farm system.


so no championsip in sight...and no perceptions of exceptional prospects compared to all other teams (including in our division)

THeres really no argument here. Burke and Nonis have been an absolute undisputed failure.

I've already pointed this out, but it's hard to predict how 18-22 year olds will pan-out. A poorly rated prospect in a couple of years could turn out to be a star just like a highly rated one can bust or they could turn out in the middle ground. Everyone matures differently.

 

[Bomber0104]

Ofcourse I can't tell you Kadri's stock has not fallen.

We turned down the Kaberle + Kadri for Kessel offer. In hind sight that was a mistake, but at the time we weren't planning on being 29th the next year.

Lmao. What if I said this is my 10th incarnation at HFboards?

It isn't but I was here a long time before joining, and was a mod at another hockey site. Search it if you want, someone on here thought it was an insult. I thanked him for the advertisement to the other site.

What if I am a 60yr old hockey fanatic who just learned to use a computer?

You posted earlier that you thought Stepan was the NYR's #1 center.

And you want to question my credibility based on the day I joined?

Exactly. Kadri has fallen. So imagine what the fanbase (myself included) USED TO THINK.

Stepan was the number one center. Holy crap go ask the Rangers board if he did or did not play with Gaborik and Anisimov.

 

[BlueBaron]

Ofcourse I can't tell you Kadri's stock has not fallen.

We turned down the Kaberle + Kadri for Kessel offer. In hind sight that was a mistake, but at the time we weren't planning on being 29th the next year.

Lmao. What if I said this is my 10th incarnation at HFboards?

It isn't but I was here a long time before joining, and was a mod at another hockey site. Search it if you want, someone on here thought it was an insult. I thanked him for the advertisement to the other site.

What if I am a 60yr old hockey fanatic who just learned to use a computer?

You posted earlier that you thought Stepan was the NYR's #1 center.

And you want to question my credibility based on the day I joined?

Wait til you encounter someone who thinks there is a direct relationship between number of posts and your hockey knowledge. Consider the source my friend, consider the source.

 

[Bomber0104]

I've already pointed this out, but it's hard to predict how 18-22 year olds will pan-out. A poorly rated prospect in a couple of years could turn out to be a star just like a highly rated one can bust or they could turn out in the middle ground. Everyone matures differently.

Okay but that opinion of yours would have to be just as valid for every team no?

And this methodology seems to account for this with the RISK FACTOR A/B/C/D thing no?

So looks like they do acknowledge there is variability and they base the rankings with this in mind.

 

[charliolemieux]

Exactly. Kadri has fallen. So imagine what the fanbase (myself included) USED TO THINK.

Stepan was the number one center. Holy crap go ask the Rangers board if he did or did not play with Gaborik and Anisimov.

So Stepan is ahead of Richards? OK then.............

 

[The Blue Devil]

Absolutely despicable trade. No doubt about it.

We'll see if the Kessel deal will compare one day when it is all said and done.

No comparison even if Kessel leaves or gets traded, we got a valuable high quality product that actually has accomplishments. In all the other deals listed we either got nothing or crap.

 

[Bomber0104]

So Stepan is ahead of Richards? OK then.............

For some reason Torts liked Callahan and Richards together. Don't ask me why but Stepan and Gabby had some wicked chemistry for a long stretch of the season.

 

[Bomber0104]

No comparison even if Kessel leaves or gets traded, we got a valuable high quality product that actually has accomplishments. In all the other deals listed we either got nothing or crap.

Im not sure if youve been following the Leafs or not the past 7 years but in each and every one of them they have done "nothing or crap"

I dont care how many points Kessel scored in seasons where the Leafs as a team do nothing or crap. I care about the Leafs winning and that is a team accomplishment, not individual.

Do you honestly look back at last season and think "that was the year Kessel scored 80 points" or think "that was the year the Leafs took a **** and finished 5th last."

I think of the last statement. Not individual things.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Okay but that opinion of yours would have to be just as valid for every team no?

And this methodology seems to account for this with the RISK FACTOR A/B/C/D thing no?

So looks like they do acknowledge there is variability and they base the rankings with this in mind.

I'm sure that there's a lot of people that would love a redo on all of the drafts.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Exactly. Kadri has fallen. So imagine what the fanbase (myself included) USED TO THINK.

Stepan was the number one center. Holy crap go ask the Rangers board if he did or did not play with Gaborik and Anisimov.

He may have been on the top line, doesn't neccesarily mean he was the #1 center.

 

[charliolemieux]

Wait til you encounter someone who thinks there is a direct relationship between number of posts and your hockey knowledge. Consider the source my friend, consider the source.

I have met them. Long ago. "Ya like a guy with 50 posts knows whats going on." Bite me you sanctimonious *********. Come to think of it MooseOak might have been one of those guys. With my *ahem* unique perspective I get all kinds of interesting responses.

Considering my post count was low until I started posting jibberish in the Lounge, and doing play by play in GDT threads, I don't put much credence in post counts.

You can be on here 24hrs a day and only post 1/1000 posts about hockey.

 

[Bomber0104]

A lot of my posts are in the GDTs too.

Im one of those guys who swears all the time because I have no where else to complain about the Leafs.

Ive considered letting ANdy Frost have an earfull and get banned from LeafsTalk forever.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Im not sure if youve been following the Leafs or not the past 7 years but in each and every one of them they have done "nothing or crap"

I dont care how many points Kessel scored in seasons where the Leafs as a team do nothing or crap. I care about the Leafs winning and that is a team accomplishment, not individual.

Do you honestly look back at last season and think "that was the year Kessel scored 80 points" or think "that was the year the Leafs took a **** and finished 5th last."

I think of the last statement. Not individual things.

Of course we want the team to succeed, but you can't put all the blame on 1 player. Kessel, unlike the other players we got in those trades is pulling his weight, that's what we're trying to get at. The Leafs in this scenario got a quality asset back that will be a big part of the team when they start winning.

 

[The Blue Devil]

I have met them. Long ago. "Ya like a guy with 50 posts knows whats going on." Bite me you sanctimonious *********. Come to think of it MooseOak might have been one of those guys. With my *ahem* unique perspective I get all kinds of interesting responses.

Considering my post count was low until I started posting jibberish in the Lounge, and doing play by play in GDT threads, I don't put much credence in post counts.

You can be on here 24hrs a day and only post 1/1000 posts about hockey.

Doubt it. He was the type to call people out on ridicoulus statements, not one to really care how many posts a person had.

 

[Bomber0104]

Of course we want the team to succeed, but you can't put all the blame on 1 player. Kessel, unlike the other players we got in those trades is pulling his weight, that's what we're trying to get at. The Leafs in this scenario got a quality asset back that will be a big part of the team when they start winning.

Yeah but you don't know that. Again with the crystal ball predictions!

You don't know a) that the leafs will start winning and b) that he will be here when that happens

I'm sorry but you just don't. I dont assume the prospects the Bruins got will be there for life. I just go by what I see happen before my eyes. The Bruins have won the Cup after trading Kessel and the Leafs have been one of the worst teams in the league since trading for Kessel while giving up a 2nd...9th overall draft picks.

I suspect it will be a ridiculously awful move when its all said and done but thats just an educated guess. So far the Leafs have been the worst team in the league since it happened and Boston got rich in prospects and won a CUp.Those are the results so far.

All I know is that I dont see ONE SINGLE BRUINS FAN complaining about that.

 

[7even]

I have met them. Long ago. "Ya like a guy with 50 posts knows whats going on." Bite me you sanctimonious *********. Come to think of it MooseOak might have been one of those guys. With my *ahem* unique perspective I get all kinds of interesting responses.

Considering my post count was low until I started posting jibberish in the Lounge, and doing play by play in GDT threads, I don't put much credence in post counts.

You can be on here 24hrs a day and only post 1/1000 posts about hockey.

My first post was on Corsi. You can imagine the quotes that one got me. And that was my reaction exactly

 

[charliolemieux]

Losing Nieds hurt, we also lost Lou and Rask.

Imagine we had a prime Lou with a prime Niedemeyer on our squad pre-lockout.

IT hurts to go there.

No I'm right. Boston has one a cup after trading Kessel. Toronto has been one of the worst teams in the league.

Toskala for Eller? Wow. Are you actually hurt by that? Well I'm about 20 times as hurt about the Kessel deal because that trade meant jack ****.

Rask was bad but he's led the Bruins no where. He was a backup for the Cup win and had no impact on them going anywhere so far. His time is coming.

Kessel could bolt for free agency or ruin the Leafs cap situation for years to come while Boston continues to win without him and Seguin. Hamilton. etc.

The information isn't in yet and you can't conclusively state that it wont be as bad because YOU CANT SEE THE FUTURE.

For all you know the Bruins can win another 10 Cups while the Leafs continue to miss the playoffs for another 10 years.

You can't see into the future.



As for your other comment, ive told you many times. I AM NOT A HOCKEY NERD TO THE POINT WHERE I KNOW EVERY LAST ****ING LEAGUE EXECUTIVE AND THE MOVES THEYVE MADE!

I let other people worry about that while all I care about is MY TEAM AND THE RESULTS!

Theyve been the worst team in the league since Burke has been here, Nonis too, and have a prospect pool that is PERCEIVED to be below average across the league.

That is so ****ing wrong for a team that has been so putrid for so long.

Wow I thought I had read some doozies but that is a nice one.

Absolutely despicable trade. No doubt about it.

We'll see if the Kessel deal will compare one day when it is all said and done.

teh kessel deal can never compare because we got elite talent v. nothing in return.

Exactly. Kadri has fallen. So imagine what the fanbase (myself included) USED TO THINK.

Stepan was the number one center. Holy crap go ask the Rangers board if he did or did not play with Gaborik and Anisimov.

Well you better tell NYR to stop playing Richards 1:21 more per game.

No comparison even if Kessel leaves or gets traded, we got a valuable high quality product that actually has accomplishments. In all the other deals listed we either got nothing or crap.

Exactly.

Im not sure if youve been following the Leafs or not the past 7 years but in each and every one of them they have done "nothing or crap"

I dont care how many points Kessel scored in seasons where the Leafs as a team do nothing or crap. I care about the Leafs winning and that is a team accomplishment, not individual.

Do you honestly look back at last season and think "that was the year Kessel scored 80 points" or think "that was the year the Leafs took a **** and finished 5th last."

I think of the last statement. Not individual things.

Not sure if I've been "following the leafs for the last 7yrs"?

I pull out a trade from 1991 that you never heard of and you ask if I have been following the Leafs for 7 years.

Do you know who Harold Ballard is?

No google!!!

Ever see him alive?

If I were to ask you about Ballards window would you be able to tell me about it?

 

[Bomber0104]

teh kessel deal can never compare because we got elite talent v. nothing in return.

You still don't get it do you?

I'm not sure why this isn't clicking for you but the Leafs have done NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA since getting Kessel and trading away their firsts.

So they have a terrible team and terribly perceived prospects.

You saying Kessel is "something" is just like saying Raycroft's 37 wins back in the day were "something", a record still to this day.

The results are STILL COMING IN. Kessel was a good player for the Leafs during **** seasons and thats what we know. But ill tell you something. IT DOESN"T MEAN ****! Individual accomplishments mean nothing. The Leafs are still a **** team whether Kessel is on it or not and in the meantime a metric ton of prospects were sent packing to a divisional rival who then won the ****ING CUP!

Results: Leafs are **** with Kessel (good player), and we can't tell the future. He could improve, decline, be traded, retire a Leaf, leave for another team, get hit by a bus, or virtually anything....

The Bruins are an elite team without Kessel, won the STANLEY ****IN CUP, received tremendously talented prospects (one cup winner) in return who could improve, decline, be traded, retire a Bruin, leave for another team, get hit by a bus, or anything...

We don't know the future therefore we don't have a basis to compare to the Kurvers trade or the Rask trade.

Kessel could bolt for free agency, the Leafs got nothing but a few points during losing seasons, while Boston has two future hall of famers for a generation while winning several cups.

It's a possibility...

But we don't know

All we know is that the Leafs are still **** and Kessel is a Leaf right now and not one single Bruin fan is complaining about their results of the trade so far!

 

[charliolemieux]

You still don't get it do you?

I'm not sure why this isn't clicking for you but the Leafs have done NOTHING, ZILCH, NADA since getting Kessel and trading away their firsts.

So they have a terrible team and terribly perceived prospects.

You saying Kessel is "something" is just like saying Raycroft's 37 wins back in the day were "something", a record still to this day.

The results are STILL COMING IN. Kessel was a good player for the Leafs during **** seasons and thats what we know. But ill tell you something. IT DOESN"T MEAN ****! Individual accomplishments mean nothing. The Leafs are still a **** team whether Kessel is on it or not and in the meantime a metric ton of prospects were sent packing to a divisional rival who then won the ****ING CUP!

Results: Leafs are **** with Kessel (good player), and we can't tell the future. He could improve, decline, be traded, retire a Leaf, leave for another team, get hit by a bus, or virtually anything....

The Bruins are an elite team without Kessel, won the STANLEY ****IN CUP, received tremendously talented prospects (one cup winner) in return who could improve, decline, be traded, retire a Bruin, leave for another team, get hit by a bus, or anything...

We don't know the future therefore we don't have a basis to compare to the Kurvers trade or the Rask trade.

Kessel could bolt for free agency, the Leafs got nothing but a few points during losing seasons, while Boston has two future hall of famers for a generation while winning several cups.

It's a possibility...

But we don't know

All we know is that the Leafs are still **** and Kessel is a Leaf right now and not one single Bruin fan is complaining about their results of the trade so far!

Dude you are totally not getting it.

You can even ask Disgruntled Observer which trade was worse.

We got nothing from Toskala. Nothing from Rask. Nothing from 1st 1991(3rd overall).

We have an elite player in Kessel. Even if he doesn't resign we will get several assets in Return in a trade.

Something is better than nothing. You have no leg whatsoever to stand on here.

 

[Bomber0104]

Dude you are totally not getting it.

You can even ask Disgruntled Observer which trade was worse.

We got nothing from Toskala. Nothing from Rask. Nothing from 1st 1991(3rd overall).

We have an elite player in Kessel. Even if he doesn't resign we will get several assets in Return in a trade.

Something is better than nothing. You have no leg whatsoever to stand on here.

You still don't get it or you're ignoring my posts.

So far the Leafs have received NOTHING in the way of results. The Bruins have received A METRIC TON in the way of results.

The future is undecided and you or I don't know it.

Kessel has a NMC according to the Cap Geek and is on contract for one more year at five million. So he is going to either ruin our cap or decide to leave. We don't know what is going to happen because we can't see into the future.

So please stop this silly argument. We don't know how it will compare to those deals where we got nothing, in your opinion. Unless you secretly have a crystal ball that you are not sharing, we don't know what will happen at the end of the day. So far the Leafs are still **** and the Bruins have won a cup received a metric ton of prospects and dont have one fan complaining about it. That's the results.

Nothing versus a metric ton.

There exists a possibility that Kessel will leave for free agency and we have NOTHING while Boston has a METRIC **** TON! That is a fact. It is a possibility but you or I do not know if it will happen yet.

 

[charliolemieux]

You still don't get it or you're ignoring my posts.

So far the Leafs have received NOTHING in the way of results. The Bruins have received A METRIC TON in the way of results.

The future is undecided and you or I don't know it.

Kessel has a NMC according to the Cap Geek and is on contract for one more year at five million. So he is going to either ruin our cap or decide to leave. We don't know what is going to happen because we can't see into the future.

So please stop this silly argument. We don't know how it will compare to those deals where we got nothing, in your opinion.

There exists a possibility that Kessel will leave for free agency and we have NOTHING while Boston has a METRIC **** TON!

IN one hand you have an elite 24yr old scorer.

IN the other hand you have sweet **** all.

Which hand is better?

 

[7even]

You still don't get it or you're ignoring my posts.

So far the Leafs have received NOTHING in the way of results. The Bruins have received A METRIC TON in the way of results.

The future is undecided and you or I don't know it.

Kessel has a NMC according to the Cap Geek and is on contract for one more year at five million. So he is going to either ruin our cap or decide to leave. We don't know what is going to happen because we can't see into the future.

So please stop this silly argument. We don't know how it will compare to those deals where we got nothing, in your opinion. Unless you secretly have a crystal ball that you are not sharing, we don't know what will happen at the end of the day. So far the Leafs are still **** and the Bruins have won a cup received a metric ton of prospects and dont have one fan complaining about it. That's the results.

Nothing versus a metric ton.

There exists a possibility that Kessel will leave for free agency and we have NOTHING while Boston has a METRIC **** TON! That is a fact. It is a possibility but you or I do not know if it will happen yet.

I don't get it. Bruins' success =/= Kessel trade.