Leafs ranked 20th by Hockey's Future.

[Bomber0104]

The problem is that you have probably watched the leaf prospects play. Maybe all the time. Maybe just sometimes.
But you've barely (if at all) seen the other players the leafs are being compared to.
You just blindly compared Kadri to Nyquist directly basing your assessment off of a couple of statistics. Nothing else. Just points.
All while HF and (especially) the hockey news have a much fairer and balanced assessment based on actual observation of all the players.

The truth is that you are biased. I think even you yourself are partially aware of that.

You think that Burke is good, which means that our prospects are good. You don't care what scouts at the hockey news thinks. Or HF. Or anybody else in the entire world for that matter.
Your bias is that unacceptably strong.
You "like" the leafs, which means you won't accept criticism of our GM, prospects, players, etc.

Honestly i think you are very in touch with the true psychology of the common sports fan. Its true but every team across every sport has them.

We can ***** and moan about how silly some fans can take their passion but its inevitable.

For every one fan you can convert to be realistic, another teenager just fills in with the KADRI IS A NUMBER ONE CENTER campaign.

 

[Bomber0104]

LOL, you do realize who they signed last summer and for how much right?

Ya but last season Stepan was their number one. He was lined up with Gaborik and Anisimov.

I watched the Rangers a lot (King Henrik fan)

Thats probably going to change now that Nash is there. We'll see.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Honestly i think you are very in touch with the true psychology of the common sports fan. Its true but every team across every sport has them.

We can ***** and moan about how silly some fans can take their passion but its inevitable.

For every one fan you can convert to be realistic, another teenager just fills in with the KADRI IS A NUMBER ONE CENTER campaign.

Who says that?

 

[Bomber0104]

It's adorable when children call people this because they don't share the same ideals.

Side note: I find it funny that people can call others homers as an insult and not get infracted, but the moment someone calls someone else a clown they get infracted.

I dont mean it to be insulting.Its just how it is.

I was called a dog and a liar yesterday but I dont cry about it.

 

[Bomber0104]

Who says that?

Notice how you joined in November 2009?

Yeah....

 

[The Blue Devil]

I dont mean it to be insulting.Its just how it is.

I was called a dog and a liar yesterday but I dont cry about it.

Of course it is, when you grow up you'll eventually figure it out.

Also, not crying just pointing out an observation.

 

[Bomber0104]

I remember when Schenn was some sort of hybrid Weber-Foote-Blake

hahahahahaha

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

How does saying that rankings are pointless, regardless of the placement of the Leafs, make me a homer?

You're not even trying to make points anymore. You;re just saying things.

I'm about as big of a Burke critic as it gets, but to be perfectly honest...
if both HF and the professional scouts that make the hockey news rankings BOTH listed the leafs prospects as top 3 in the league...

fine... I'd probably still be a little stubborn and say something like "It took far too long for him to get here" or something,
but I would never arrogantly dismiss all the experts and professional scouts that collaborated together to make those lists.
That's a whole level of stubborness that I can't even fully fathom.

 

[Bomber0104]

Of course it is, when you grow up you'll eventually figure it out.

Also, not crying just pointing out an observation.

again, disgruntled asked a question and i feel its true.

If the Leafs weree ranked 1st in prospects because our prospects were amazing, every here would be citing all the praise as reason to be optimistic.

Its only cuz they were ranked so low do they attack the writer and the methodology.

Thats just the truth. In no way would a majority of posters be here posting "Ah BS you cant trust these things. We definitely dont have the best prospects!!!" No theyd be doing the complete opposite.

I probably would be saying the same thing too because i happen to trust people who write about prospects more so than myself and random leaf posters on hfboards.com discussions.

(and yes, you are whining and complaining. youll learn to take criticism in stride whenever you grow up)

hahaha

 

[The Blue Devil]

Notice how you joined in November 2009?

Yeah....

Last I checked Kadri was drafted in 09. I know you have trouble figuring things out so to help you I'll point out that I started posting in 09, doesn't mean I wasn't here before then.

Cute observation though.

 

[Bomber0104]

Last I checked Kadri was drafted in 09. I know you have trouble figuring things out so to help you I'll point out that I started posting in 09, doesn't mean I wasn't here before then.

Cute observation though.

Lots of people were hyping Kadri as a future #1 center.

You obviously werent paying much attention.

Thats settled down now, but of course the Leafs booster club now denies ever saying it. Im a fan of him but Im waiting for him to impress me (and the idiot managers and (former) coaches of the team to play him)

 

[Bomber0104]

I'm about as big of a Burke critic as it gets, but to be perfectly honest...
if both HF and the professional scouts that make the hockey news rankings BOTH listed the leafs prospects as top 3 in the league...

fine... I'd probably still be a little stubborn and say something like "It took far too long for him to get here" or something,
but I would never arrogantly dismiss all the experts and professional scouts that collaborated together to make those lists.
That's a whole level of stubborness that I can't even fully fathom.

Spot on again.

 

[The Blue Devil]

again, disgruntled asked a question and i feel its true.

If the Leafs weree ranked 1st in prospects because our prospects were amazing, every here would be citing all the praise as reason to be optimistic.

Its only cuz they were ranked so low do they attack the writer and the methodology.

Thats just the truth. In no way would a majority of posters be here posting "Ah BS you cant trust these things. We definitely dont have the best prospects!!!" No theyd be doing the complete opposite.

I probably would be saying the same thing too because i happen to trust people who write about prospects more so than myself and random leaf posters on hfboards.com discussions.

(and yes, you are whining and complaining. youll learn to take criticism in stride whenever you grow up)

hahaha

I'd much rather have a championship than a top ranked prospect system. Having a top ranked prospect system doesn't guarantee a Cup, I honestly didn't care when we were ranked in the top 10 and don't care that we are 20. Something that most of the other posters have been arguing. They're just trying to find some consistency with the rankings. Something that you and DO have failed to even acknowledge.

 

[charliolemieux]

ya but you cant conclusively state that. not yet. its too early now. it doesn't look good but we cant just say it wont be as bad because we dont have all the results in. Kessel and the three prospects are young still. Boston won a CUp so there's that, but we even still have to wait for the finale.

Ya but you're telling me there isnt another assistant GM or director of player development or OHL GM or anyone that hasnt had a hand in a really great trade or assembly of a team? Ya right. See I dont give a **** that much about hockey managers so i dont know who id pick but Im sure tannedbum could hire someone to find someone.

You cant just forgive and forget in this business. A doctor cant just say "awww man, sorry for botching your surgery....ill do better next time". Hell no. Sports is all about results. If u dont get them, hit the road and let someone else have a try.

Look we gave up Rask for nothing. - Rask deal.
We gave up a 1st a 2nd a nd a 4th for nothing. - Toskala deal
We gave up the 3rd overall pick, NJ drafted Scott Neidermayer for nothing - Kurvers deal

WE still have Kessel. We have a young elite scorer. So there is no way that deal is even close to the others.


Buddy you post a resume that rivals Burkes and I will give you full credit.

I have no problem in doing that. The only caveat is that the person must be available.

So no "What about Scotty Bowman? hahaha".... and Actually Bowman as brilliant as coach that he was he sucked as a GM the one time he was given a shot.

 

[Bomber0104]

I'd much rather have a championship than a top ranked prospect system. Having a top ranked prospect system doesn't guarantee a Cup, I honestly didn't care when we were ranked in the top 10 and don't care that we are 20. Something that most of the other posters have been arguing. They're just trying to find some consistency with the rankings. Something that you and DO have failed to even acknowledge.

yeah but toronto has neither. they dont have the allusion or perception (there..just for you...nothing concrete) of a good prospect system or a good team (obviously since theyve been one the THE WORST teams in the league since the lockout..)

So really you'd have to be a pretty bad manager after absent mindedly icing the worst team in the league constantly to not even have a respectable farm system.


so no championsip in sight...and no perceptions of exceptional prospects compared to all other teams (including in our division)

THeres really no argument here. Burke and Nonis have been an absolute undisputed failure.

 

[charliolemieux]

I'm about as big of a Burke critic as it gets, but to be perfectly honest...
if both HF and the professional scouts that make the hockey news rankings BOTH listed the leafs prospects as top 3 in the league...

fine... I'd probably still be a little stubborn and say something like "It took far too long for him to get here" or something,
but I would never arrogantly dismiss all the experts and professional scouts that collaborated together to make those lists.
That's a whole level of stubborness that I can't even fully fathom.

Look, Detroit is ranked 10th on the strength of two 23yr olds. Toronto has an elite 18yr old and a 22yr old who is as good as the Wings #2 prospect but Toronto is ranked 20th.

They even admitted Detroit has no goaltending prospects, but Toronto has 3 or 4 depending on how you want to count. BUt Detroit is ranked 10 spots ahead of Toronto


That obvious discrepancy is my issue.

 

[Bomber0104]

Look we gave up Rask for nothing. - Rask deal.
We gave up a 1st a 2nd a nd a 4th for nothing. - Toskala deal
We gave up the 3rd overall pick, NJ drafted Scott Neidermayer for nothing - Kurvers deal

WE still have Kessel. We have a young elite scorer. So there is no way that deal is even close to the others.


Buddy you post a resume that rivals Burkes and I will give you full credit.

I have no problem in doing that. The only caveat is that the person must be available.

So no "What about Scotty Bowman? hahaha".... and Actually Bowman as brilliant as coach that he was he sucked as a GM the one time he was given a shot.

Yeah but you still don't understand my point...

THe Kessel trade is still TO BE DETERMINED! IT IS NOT OVER!

Hamilton hasn't played ONE NHL GAME YET. Kessel's career with the Leafs is NOT OVER. Seguin is still 20 years old!

Rask is over because Raycroft led the Leafs NOWHERE and is off the team. OVER.

Kurvers is over because thats ancient history now. OVER.

Toskala is over because he led the Leafs nowhere and is off the team while lars eller is playing for the habs. OVER.

We dont have all the information yet. Yes we have Kessel, but its still way too early to make any conclusions. I speculate that this trade is awful but I am still WAITING for ALL INFORMATION. That's how you make analysis. Based on knowing all the facts.


And I repeat, I nor anyone else here knows anything about what happens upstairs around the league. We are fans not executives. I dont know any managers because as i have said i dont give a **** about who is in charge, i just want to see a winning team or ridiculous prospects. we have neither. i dont care if we have an 95 year old senior citizen or some fresh face 30 year old up and comer. i just care about what they do to the team and that means winning a cup or if not, loading up with ridiculously amazing prospects that will hopefully be a cause to win th ecup later.

 

[charliolemieux]

Last I checked Kadri was drafted in 09. I know you have trouble figuring things out so to help you I'll point out that I started posting in 09, doesn't mean I wasn't here before then.

Cute observation though.

Ya like we all started posting right after we watched our first game.

I'd be like "inter...what?"

I remember 10 of us standing in my friends basement to watch his computer dial another comupter over the modem.

Lots of people were hyping Kadri as a future #1 center.

You obviously werent paying much attention.

Thats settled down now, but of course the Leafs booster club now denies ever saying it. Im a fan of him but Im waiting for him to impress me (and the idiot managers and (former) coaches of the team to play him)

You need to learn to be like an Olympic diving judge.

YOu throw out the the extreme high score, and throw out the extreme low score and
somewhere in what's left is the real score.

 

[Bomber0104]

You need to learn to be like an Olympic diving judge.

YOu throw out the the extreme high score, and throw out the extreme low score and
somewhere in what's left is the real score.

I did and guess what? People's consensus back then was that Kadri was an untouchable future star for the Leafs. This is a fact. Go back to 2009 and read. I was there. IT happened. The boosters now deny it. You joined in 2010 so you are late to the party.

You can't honestly tell me Kadris stock has NOT fallen over the years dramatically. Well he has amongst the fanbase too apparently.

 

[JKsilverstick*]

I did and guess what? People's consensus back then was that Kadri was an untouchable future star for the Leafs. This is a fact. Go back to 2009 and read. I was there. IT happened. The boosters now deny it. You joined in 2010 so you are late to the party.

Prove it.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Lots of people were hyping Kadri as a future #1 center.

You obviously werent paying much attention.

Thats settled down now, but of course the Leafs booster club now denies ever saying it. Im a fan of him but Im waiting for him to impress me (and the idiot managers and (former) coaches of the team to play him)

A lot of people were pretty pissed off with the pick at first. People started hyping him up after his 2PPG playoff which was impressive.

The thing with Kadri is that it's still not out of the realm of possibility that he ends up a #1 center. I don't think that it'll happen but I do believe he will be an impactfull top 6 player.

 

[charliolemieux]

Yeah but you still don't understand my point...

THe Kessel trade is still TO BE DETERMINED! IT IS NOT OVER!

Hamilton hasn't played ONE NHL GAME YET. Kessel's career with the Leafs is NOT OVER. Seguin is still 20 years old!

Rask is over because Raycroft led the Leafs NOWHERE and is off the team. OVER.

Kurvers is over because thats ancient history now. OVER.

Toskala is over because he led the Leafs nowhere and is off the team while lars eller is playing for the habs. OVER.

We dont have all the information yet. Yes we have Kessel, but its still way too early to make any conclusions. I speculate that this trade is awful but I am still WAITING for ALL INFORMATION. That's how you make analysis. Based on knowing all the facts.


And I repeat, I nor anyone else here knows anything about what happens upstairs around the league. We are fans not executives. I dont know any managers because as i have said i dont give a **** about who is in charge, i just want to see a winning team or ridiculous prospects. we have neither. i dont care if we have an 95 year old senior citizen or some fresh face 30 year old up and comer. i just care about what they do to the team and that means winning a cup or if not, loading up with ridiculously amazing prospects that will hopefully be a cause to win th ecup later.

Dude we don't have to wait for ****!

Ask anybody.

There is no way the Kessel deal is worse than the three I brought up.

Thats even if Seguin wins the art Ross 5x and Hamilton is a 6x Norris winner.

No matter how bad the deal looks 5 years from now it won't be worse than those other three.


That's a nice little rant you had there.
So you are admitting you have no answer to "Who should replace Burke?"

Same **** as all you guys before. Hate him but got no one better for the job.

 

[4evaBlue]

Last I checked Kadri was drafted in 09. I know you have trouble figuring things out so to help you I'll point out that I started posting in 09, doesn't mean I wasn't here before then.

Cute observation though.

Hmm, having joined in 2011, I must have signed up as a bandwagoneer because we were going to draft... DOH!

 

[BlueBaron]

Percy and Biggs aren't Seguin and Hamilton, one of them says hi with a pretty nice ring on his finger

Seguin having a cup ring proves what exactly ? That you are changing the subject ?

Nothing wrong with Percy and Biggs.

You guys really need to lighten up.

Rielly
Kadri
Finn
Percy

are a more than respectable top 4 prospects. You guys really cant see that ?

And you really think having Kessel instead of Seguin and Hamilton is the end of the world ?

The great thing about the Burke haters is you always focus on one tiny aspect and ignore the big picture.

Nothing wrong with

Biggs
Ashton
Cob
Scrivins
Rynnas

etc

Lets not forget the score is lowered because Frattin and Gardiner are on the team. Its such a subjective rating and yet you guys use this as ammunition in your crusade. But hey, if it helps you sleep at night enjoy.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Dude we don't have to wait for ****!

Ask anybody.

There is no way the Kessel deal is worse than the three I brought up.

Thats even if Seguin wins the art Ross 5x and Hamilton is a 6x Norris winner.

No matter how bad the deal looks 5 years from now it won't be worse than those other three.


That's a nice little rant you had there.
So you are admitting you have no answer to "Who should replace Burke?"

Same **** as all you guys before. Hate him but got no one better for the job.

Losing Nieds hurt, we also lost Lou and Rask.

Imagine we had a prime Lou with a prime Niedemeyer on our squad pre-lockout.