Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose... Again.

[Leafblooded]

Let's look at it logically, a team with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares was able to muster ONE playoff round win. Maybe losing Nylander and being able to address the D and goaltending with the cap space isn't the worst thing in the world?

Sure but wouldve been nice to get some assets

 

[shaner8989]

Is woll skating yet? Seems like he’s been out forever and zero updates

 

[Larcos_Unal]

True, but I would rather lose Marner than Willy

100% agreed, maybe the play is to sign Willie and let Marner walk. That one season will be lost as we won't be able to address the deficiencies until Mitch is off the books and Tavares takes a hometown discount deal

 

[Larcos_Unal]

Sure but wouldve been nice to get some assets

I think the cap space is the asset, he'd basically be an own rental.
Trading Willie now is essentially giving up on the season, I don't see it happening. Mitch isn't gonna waive his NTC for anything...he has it too good here.

You really have to give it to the players and their agents, they literally have all the leverage in this situation. Incredible what Boston, Tampa were able to do by setting up internal caps and having players adhere to them.

 

[arso40]

Keep marner from matty time to seperate them for good did him n willy go pointless together?

 

[GoonieFace]

100% agreed, maybe the play is to sign Willie and let Marner walk. That one season will be lost as we won't be able to address the deficiencies until Mitch is off the books and Tavares takes a hometown discount deal

By hometown discount do you mean working at the concessions?

 

[Larcos_Unal]

By hometown discount do you mean working at the concessions?

LOL, I'd give JT $5-6m per on a two year deal and if he wants more he can move to the lovely Ottawa region. Even though he skates like the fat kid in bantam, he still produces on the PP.

 

[Racer88]

I think people are underestimating the "brand" idea. I think it is definitely a factor. I don't think the team will do anything that might risk the brand, and that includes trading one of its stars or letting one of them walk to free agency.

I kind of agree with you but what is their “brand”. A lot of Leaf fans and all the rest of the hockey world thinks they are a bunch of overpaid players that can’t get it done in the playoffs or at all it seems right now.
Is that what they are protecting?

 

[rumman]

I think people are underestimating the "brand" idea. I think it is definitely a factor. I don't think the team will do anything that might risk the brand, and that includes trading one of its stars or letting one of them walk to free agency.

All the brand says to me is failure since 1967, what’s there to protect?

If things don’t go easy for this team their compete level drops substantially which is not a recipe for playoff success. Plain and simple. We need some gamers. I’m starting to come around on the switching marner for a different type of player. Brodie is the new Holl for sure dudes trash

Perfect analogy imo……….

 

[Dekes For Days]

Brodie reads it correctly. His job is to pressure and leave the rest to his support. His support, McCabe does something similar. Everyone takes a man, but Marners sulking. Jarn is the high man, his role is to be high. It's Marners f*** up.

Brodie does not read it correctly. While the team may usually like to pressure the blueline, what he actually ended up doing was pressure the 3rd opposing forward in the neutral zone with two of our forwards already in the neutral zone. He didn't come anywhere close to making it because it was a bad pinch, and then he flailed his stick trying to hit the puck out of mid-air, as he left a 2 on 1 at the blueline behind him. I would have liked to see Marner read the developing play and get back faster, but he was not "sulking", and he was up there with Jarnkrok because they had a clear breakout opportunity that McCabe flubbed the pass on. It was a PK. You can't do man on man. You don't have enough men. It should have been a 2v2 with Marner taking the trailing forward, or Jarnkrok moving over and Marner going high. Instead, Brodie pushed badly into the trailing forward, McCabe moved over to the guy Brodie should have been on to defend the 2 on 1, and Marner was left to try and catch a quick forward with momentum at the last minute.

You don't think Marner can make a saucer pass to Willy or a bank pass to Matthews? He couldn't have read time and space closing and controlled himself closing on the net limiting options? Couldn't have pivoted to his backhand or took back ice to create time and space?

Nylander had pushed so far up that a 1 foot saucer pass would have been difficult and risky. If you can get it off, it slightly decreases the chance of it being intercepted, but increases the chance of it missing, hitting the stick in a way that isn't conducive to a quick shot, or bouncing over the stick for a break. When Marner looked to Matthews, both Tavares and a defender were in the way behind the net. Maybe he could have held on for a while, but people also complain when he does that, and this is such hindsight commentary. When you're in the final minute on a 6 on 5 and one of your best goal scorers skates in from the blueline cocked and ready for a quick shot, and there are people going to the net and no other immediate passing lanes, it's very reasonable to make that pass. It's also interesting that you're going so hard after Marner's pass being intercepted, when you absolved McCabe of any responsibility for a massively worse pass that created the whole 2nd goal situation in the first place.

Marner made a minor mistake on each of those goals, but was not close to the primary (let alone sole) cause of either of them, and it's ridiculous to blame the loss on him. Both of the things Marner did are done constantly every game to no effect or notice.

 

[rumman]

True, but I would rather lose Marner than Willy

I’m not to found of 16 and his salary, 88 isn’t going to be worth what he’ll get either. Neither are pieces I would build around if starting from scratch……..

100% agreed, maybe the play is to sign Willie and let Marner walk. That one season will be lost as we won't be able to address the deficiencies until Mitch is off the books and Tavares takes a hometown discount deal

I’m serious, at this point what’s another loss season………

 

[rumman]

I think the cap space is the asset, he'd basically be an own rental.
Trading Willie now is essentially giving up on the season, I don't see it happening. Mitch isn't gonna waive his NTC for anything...he has it too good here.

You really have to give it to the players and their agents, they literally have all the leverage in this situation. Incredible what Boston, Tampa were able to do by setting up internal caps and having players adhere to them.

All boy wonder‘s fault, he’s probably licking his chops to over pay one or more again once they hit the free market……

 

[Gallagbi]

Brodie does not read it correctly. While the team may usually like to pressure the blueline, what he actually ended up doing was pressure the 3rd opposing forward in the neutral zone with two of our forwards already in the neutral zone. He didn't come anywhere close to making it because it was a bad pinch, and then he flailed his stick trying to hit the puck out of mid-air, as he left a 2 on 1 at the blueline behind him. I would have liked to see Marner read the developing play and get back faster, but he was not "sulking", and he was up there with Jarnkrok because they had a clear breakout opportunity that McCabe flubbed the pass on. It was a PK. You can't do man on man. You don't have enough men. It should have been a 2v2 with Marner taking the trailing forward, or Jarnkrok moving over and Marner going high. Instead, Brodie pushed badly into the trailing forward, McCabe moved over to the guy Brodie should have been on to defend the 2 on 1, and Marner was left to try and catch a quick forward with momentum at the last minute.

Nylander had pushed so far up that a 1 foot saucer pass would have been difficult and risky. If you can get it off, it slightly decreases the chance of it being intercepted, but increases the chance of it missing, hitting the stick in a way that isn't conducive to a quick shot, or bouncing over the stick for a break. When Marner looked to Matthews, both Tavares and a defender were in the way behind the net. Maybe he could have held on for a while, but people also complain when he does that, and this is such hindsight commentary. When you're in the final minute on a 6 on 5 and one of your best goal scorers skates in from the blueline cocked and ready for a quick shot, and there are people going to the net and no other immediate passing lanes, it's very reasonable to make that pass. It's also interesting that you're going so hard after Marner's pass being intercepted, when you absolved McCabe of any responsibility for a massively worse pass that created the whole 2nd goal situation in the first place.

Marner made a minor mistake on each of those goals, but was not close to the primary (let alone sole) cause of either of them, and it's ridiculous to blame the loss on him. Both of the things Marner did are done constantly every game to no effect or notice.

Look, we're not going to agree, but these blinders need to be put away.

A brutal turnover for an ENG, sulking in the neutral zone to completely abandon your position only to lead to a lazy backcheck you give up on isn't okay. These aren't "minor mistakes" these are major gaffes leading to critical GA from a top player who doesn't look the part recently.

The breakdown, especially SH, shows a lack of understanding our systems and Marners role in the play. Nothing more needs to be said on it.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Sure but wouldve been nice to get some assets

Still can.

 

[Evilhomer]

I kind of agree with you but what is their “brand”. A lot of Leaf fans and all the rest of the hockey world thinks they are a bunch of overpaid players that can’t get it done in the playoffs or at all it seems right now.
Is that what they are protecting?

I don't think it's any different than the Rangers. They have hardly ever won anything, but their brand is "the team that everyone wants to play for". I think the Leafs intend to project the same image. That means ensuring that it keeps all of its stars, for better or worse, and going star-hunting when a big fish becomes available.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I think the cap space is the asset, he'd basically be an own rental.
Trading Willie now is essentially giving up on the season, I don't see it happening. Mitch isn't gonna waive his NTC for anything...he has it too good here.

You really have to give it to the players and their agents, they literally have all the leverage in this situation. Incredible what Boston, Tampa were able to do by setting up internal caps and having players adhere to them.

But we can have both. He only has a limited NTC. Trade him at the deadline to a contender that needs offense, get picks and/or prospects in return then also have at least $10M in cap savings this summer. This team ain't doing shit this season, I see no downside to this. His trade value will never be higher (albeit as a rental, the market won't be phenomenal) and I bet he walks to UFA status anyway (that's what his dad did twice).

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

LOL, I'd give JT $5-6m per on a two year deal and if he wants more he can move to the lovely Ottawa region. Even though he skates like the fat kid in bantam, he still produces on the PP.

He'll be 35 in Sept of the 25/26 season. He made his money, I'd offer him a Spezza deal or maybe a little better and see just how badly he wants to be a Leaf.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

He'll be 35 in Sept of the 25/26 season. He made his money, I'd offer him a Spezza deal or maybe a little better and see just how badly he wants to be a Leaf.

That would be ideal, he's got what, $150m in the bank?

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

That would be ideal, he's got what, $150m in the bank?

Capfriendly say career earnings (so far) are $95M. He does seem the type to be prudent with his money and not piss it away and maybe he's made some investments but I would guess something more like $40M after taxes, expenses, etc., depending on his lifestyle.

 

[Stephen]

Look, we're not going to agree, but these blinders need to be put away.

A brutal turnover for an ENG, sulking in the neutral zone to completely abandon your position only to lead to a lazy backcheck you give up on isn't okay. These aren't "minor mistakes" these are major gaffes leading to critical GA from a top player who doesn't look the part recently.

The breakdown, especially SH, shows a lack of understanding our systems and Marners role in the play. Nothing more needs to be said on it.

I distinctly recall in various Marner vs Aho debates the idea of Aho scoring EN goals was brought out as a stats padding negative, inflating value. Last night was a nice demonstration of how when a skilled two way player is trusted in a big moment to defend a lead, how they can read a play, don't force anything, bide time and ultimately get rewarded for it.

If anything Marner needs to remember to keep his cool and don't force things with individual, eye popping skill. Sometimes you just need to make a simple play. All that body language stuff sucks too.

 

[rumman]

I don't think it's any different than the Rangers. They have hardly ever won anything, but their brand is "the team that everyone wants to play for". I think the Leafs intend to project the same image. That means ensuring that it keeps all of its stars, for better or worse, and going star-hunting when a big fish becomes available.

I think your completely wrong, most players don’t want to play in this market period………

 

[-DeMo-]

Let's look at it logically, a team with Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares was able to muster ONE playoff round win. Maybe losing Nylander and being able to address the D and goaltending with the cap space isn't the worst thing in the world?

next year we have lots of caps space to do that anyways. we have 11 guys signed and still have 34.2 million in cap space say Nylander gets 11. that leaves us with about 13-14 million for 2 top 4 Dmen that should bring in pretty high quality players leaving us with 9-10 million to fill out the other 6 to 9 players. lots of room this summer to add good Dmen even with Nylander and then the cap is expected to rise another 5 million the year after.

 

[Gallagbi]

I distinctly recall in various Marner vs Aho debates the idea of Aho scoring EN goals was brought out as a stats padding negative, inflating value. Last night was a nice demonstration of how when a skilled two way player is trusted in a big moment to defend a lead, how they can read a play, don't force anything, bide time and ultimately get rewarded for it.

If anything Marner needs to remember to keep his cool and don't force things with individual, eye popping skill. Sometimes you just need to make a simple play. All that body language stuff sucks too.

There is a time when ENG inflate totals and not all of them carry the same value, which we know. I wouldn't conflate it any more than Marners made a bad play, especially since they both PK and are typically on in the final minute.

 

[Gabriel426]

Game 5 of the CBJ series for me.

1. Nylander to centre
2. Stacking one line for Torts to only have to worry about when CBJ showed for 4 games they could neutralize M&M
3. Johnnson into an elimination game after not playing for 6 months

Well, it was his first playoffs and first season coaching. So chalked that up as learning curve

 

[fahad203]

Well, it was his first playoffs and first season coaching. So chalked that up as learning curve

Every year seems like a lessons to be learned for our coach
This is the big league, not Mcdonalds.