Post-Game Talk: Leafs lose 3-2 in OT

[Gabriel426]

I guess you better rewatch that and open your ears. He takes responsibility at 2:25 and reiterates what he’s been saying during his whole tenure. He believes he should be held accountable as the organization is heavy on accountability and he shouldn’t be treated any differently. He has no issues with being evaluated for his entire body of work. He believes in the staff and the core. There was no deflection there. Talks about giving everything he can to make the team better. Dubas isn’t a perfect GM, but he’s an honest and respectable guy. He’s never deceived the media or fans in anyway. And he’s always admitted his shortcomings. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

@3:45 he says, “I understand no body cares about what we have to say. A lot of people say we need to win in the playoffs. I agree, we have to win in the playoffs”

How exactly is that not taking accountability?

Dubas fans or not, he is not someone who jerks around people.
If there is a complain about sexual harassment in the work place, he won’t sweep it under the rug like Bowman in Chicago.
He is not someone who will sign good young player with questionable past like Neely and Sweeney and hope the rest of the team and the fans understand.
He is someone who will just fire the coach instead of hanging him out to dry for two months, and humiliate him before firing him like JR is doing with Bruce.

Like all GMs, he is going to make mistakes and will bet on the wrong horses but he doesn’t jerk around people like a lot of the GMs or Presidents in the league.

 

[PromisedLand]

You forgot to look at what the others can provide and make compromises or look at the shared past and think, must have faith.
But at the end of the day, it comes down to, ‘What have you done for me lately?’
Then will meet someone else and think, ‘Oh, he/she sure is different.’
Lol

to me the frustrating part is they are promising something but their actions are not really to achieve their goals that they have identified.

they are not going to admit they overpaid, that the 3 forwards making 11 AAV+ is not a good strategy for a team that is well rounded but they keep pushing the narrative that they are going for the cup.

Its baffling and quite infuriating; at least to me lol

 

[34]

The team is a reflection of the embarrassing fan reaction here.

The team should be embarrassed after getting hammered by an AHL team.

 

[PromisedLand]

I guess you better rewatch that and open your ears. He takes responsibility at 2:25 and reiterates what he’s been saying during his whole tenure. He believes he should be held accountable as the organization is heavy on accountability and he shouldn’t be treated any differently. He has no issues with being evaluated for his entire body of work. He believes in the staff and the core. There was no deflection there. Talks about giving everything he can to make the team better. Dubas isn’t a perfect GM, but he’s an honest and respectable guy. He’s never deceived the media or fans in anyway. And he’s always admitted his shortcomings. So I’m not sure what you’re getting at.

@3:45 he says, “I understand no body cares about what we have to say. A lot of people say we need to win in the playoffs. I agree, we have to win in the playoffs”

How exactly is that not taking accountability?

"I made a mistake" is taking responsibility;

where the f*** is he taking responsibility? he is acting like he hasn't made any mistakes.

speaking about "accountability" and actually accepting "accountability" by acknolwdging mistakes are two different things

like i said before to each his/her own. I don't agree with what you are trying to say.

 

[Chief Leaf]

For all you who think it doesn't matter right now,..it's January....Whaadya think Samsov is feeling?

The dude poured his heart out, even looking frustrated at times.

I know that he was run a few times and how did our team react?

"who cares,...it's january"

Sammy,..didn't think so and maybe if our team showed some bite/grit/stand up for our crease,..maybe the results would have been better.

NO GUTS ....NO GLORY.

Pretty sad when you are at work and you work hard in hopes that your team will too and hearing fans go Ho Hummm it's January when you have already seen the wash, rince, repeat cycle go on for many years just because of that crap ho hum vibe.

 

[francis246]

to me the frustrating part is they are promising something but their actions are not really to achieve their goals that they have identified.

they are not going to admit they overpaid, that the 3 forwards making 11 AAV+ is not a good strategy for a team that is well rounded but they keep pushing the narrative that they are going for the cup.

Its baffling and quite infuriating; at least to me lol

Why would they admit something that was totally out of their control. Which is the cap being stunted due to a global pandemic. To be honest more teams will have this roster model I’m the next 2-5 years. It’s pretty inevitable. There are more outstanding forwards than defenseman, and we are already seeing younger players sign huge contracts after 40/50 point seasons.

 

[Eye Test]

yea I am in a catch 22 for this

- I don't think trading huge assets is a good idea but at the same time...
- matthews and nylander are gonna be UFAs soon with no guarantees they will re-sign.

so what to do?

questions:
1) if we cannot re-sign them would we be able to trade them before July 1st? why? b./c their NTC/NMC kicks in
2) if we do re-sign them then what do we do as we are going to be up there with the cap with no cheap quality ELC coming in to help if we trade big assets
3) how much faith do we have in this team that it will go the distance if we traded big assets this season?

especially tough given we potentially have gm who is not going to be extended.

Tough situation to be in really. And quite frankly this is all Shanahan's fault

I think we resign them both personally and then just wait out Tavares’ contract but yeah your #2 point is tough.

The year to trade a first rounder was the year he did with the all Canadian division and we blew it. I don’t feel like we should be doing that this year, our team is gutless and what are the odds of them beating Boston tampa and then probably Carolina just to get to the finals?

Never seen a less intimidating team, even competitive wise. When teams enter our zone on a rush or when teams cycle in our end or when teams stand infront of our net there is 0 punishment handed out. There is 0 threat, 0 intimidation. I loved playing against teams that played soft I could do whatever I want (hence why josh Anderson plays like super man against us).

Can anyone name more than 7/8 current leaf players you would consider highly competitive or physical?

 

[Racer88]

I wish theyd win in the playoffs. At this point last year everyone wanted to be Florida

I want them to win in the playoffs too but I don’t think you can turn it off and on at will. They need to have a winning mentality and they don’t seem to have that. I’m not even totally blaming the players. Management’s idea to dump 50% of the cap on 4 forwards is flawed and we are seeing it unfold yet again

 

[Chief Leaf]

I dont think you understand what im saying.

It doesnt matter if they go undefeated the rest of the way, its about what happens in the playoffs.

Growing character, killer instinct is what gives you wins. Understand that. Underrstand that we have seen this non killer instict try to ride off hope.

 

[francis246]

"I made a mistake" is taking responsibility;

where the f*** is he taking responsibility? he is acting like he hasn't made any mistakes.

speaking about "accountability" and actually accepting "accountability" by acknolwdging mistakes are two different things

like i said before to each his/her own. I don't agree with what you are trying to say.

He didn’t make a mistake, he’s built a great team. Should he apologize for the pandemic that has completely f***ed the NHL? And why would he apologize when his tenure isn’t over. It’s not a forgone conclusion that this team can’t get it done. Additionally teams can’t even make a trade at this point, that’s how screwed every single team in the NHL is currently. That’s not really on Dubas, all GM’s can do is go based off cap projection models. It’s not as black or white as you’re always making it out to seem. There are many mitigating factors here.

 

[JianYang]

I mean, what is there to say? Habs show up to these games, Leafs don’t.

Not sure the Habs did... Maybe the laval rocket showed up.

 

[Gabriel426]

to me the frustrating part is they are promising something but their actions are not really to achieve their goals that they have identified.

they are not going to admit they overpaid, that the 3 forwards making 11 AAV+ is not a good strategy for a team that is well rounded but they keep pushing the narrative that they are going for the cup.

Its baffling and quite infuriating; at least to me lol

Honestly, if you finish top 5-6 or at the very least top 8 in the league, it is pretty hard to say, that team is not going for it Year after year.

Haven’t look it up, but barring an outliner team here and there, I think the two teams meeting in the Cup Finals were usually a top 8 teams in the regular season.

Admitting overpaying or not is irrelevant if they won the Cup.

What frustrates me about this team is the inability to score those clutch goals when they need it in series deciding games.
When you look at the team performance over the past three years in the playoffs. They were pretty much the dominant team till it is the Series deciding games.
Against BJs, despite losing Game 1 and Game 3(a game where they led 3-0 in the 2nd), the boys could had won all three. The the miracle of 7 mins got them another chance and they crashed out.
They dominated the Habs till Game 5.
They were also the better team till TB tied the game in Game 6.

We can argue if only they had a better goalie but to me their goaltending wasn’t horrible rather the team as a whole just can’t score those series deciding goals. It is not about depth scoring but players scoring those clutch goals.
That’s why I want Kane to be on the team bc he is Mr. Clutch and love those moments. Toews is another one.

 

[PromisedLand]

Why would they admit something that was totally out of their control. Which is the cap being stunted due to a global pandemic. To be honest more teams will have this roster model I’m the next 2-5 years. It’s pretty inevitable. There are more outstanding forwards than defenseman, and we are already seeing younger players sign huge contracts after 40/50 point seasons.

Foresight is a thing. He tried to do something that no one in the league had done. I don't buy this global pandemic narrative. Dubas tried to do something completely different than what was done in the league.

On top of it he ruined one season feuding with his coach, goalie drama, other stupid BS.

I am not buying what you are selling

 

[Gallagbi]

I want them to win in the playoffs too but I don’t think you can turn it off and on at will. They need to have a winning mentality and they don’t seem to have that. I’m not even totally blaming the players. Management’s idea to dump 50% of the cap on 4 forwards is flawed and we are seeing it unfold yet again

If youre concerned with mentality, thats players and not roster construction.

Weve lost series a lot of ways, with a lot of regular seasons before them. Nothing we do now will seal our fate. Were a good regular season team, dont over analyze the losses. Right now people are just looking to confirm their preconceived notions and protect their feelings. It hurts less when you can say i told you so

 

[Gilmour1996]

What do you expect when you have an absolute donkey like Dubis and his clown daddy Shanny running this team. What a pathetically embarrassing franchise. If this absolute loser dud Dubis is given an extension I will be officially done with this team. This is madness and insanity on full display. Most unlikeable team I’ve ever seen. These losers are sucking the passion out of me game by game. Give a shit about regular season wins. Playing like this is absolutely unacceptable and is a direct product of roster construction by the biggest absolute loser fraud management in the league. FIRE DUBAS. FIRE SHANAFUCCK.

Not the just roster construction but the coaching staff too. I thought our coach had learned thru mistake after mistake that you can't put defensively irresponsible players out there in OT but he forgets his lesson and makes the same mistake again.

 

[francis246]

I think we resign them both personally and then just wait out Tavares’ contract but yeah your #2 point is tough.

The year to trade a first rounder was the year he did with the all Canadian division and we blew it. I don’t feel like we should be doing that this year, our team is gutless and what are the odds of them beating Boston tampa and then probably Carolina just to get to the finals?

Never seen a less intimidating team, even competitive wise. When teams enter our zone on a rush or when teams cycle in our end or when teams stand infront of our net there is 0 punishment handed out. There is 0 threat, 0 intimidation. I loved playing against teams that played soft I could do whatever I want (hence why josh Anderson plays like super man against us).

Can anyone name more than 7/8 current leaf players you would consider highly competitive or physical?

Agreed both will resign, all you do is hope for the cap to jump and Tavares contract to expire. I think they will trade for Ryan O’Reilly and probably extend him. He’s going to be cheaper than some of the other names. You let go of Engvall and Holl, Muzzin/Brodie deals comes off a year later. They can make it work.

This team isn’t really as cap screwed as people make them out to be.

 

[PromisedLand]

He didn’t make a mistake, he’s built a great team. Should he apologize for the pandemic that has completely f***ed the NHL? And why would he apologize when his tenure isn’t over. It’s not a forgone conclusion that this team can’t get it done. Additionally teams can’t even make a trade at this point, that’s how screwed every single team in the NHL is currently. That’s not really on Dubas, all GM’s can do is go based off cap projection models. It’s not as black or white as you’re always making it out to seem. There are many mitigating factors here.

I really don't have the energy to discuss dubas. I've discussed it to death. i have my views and I am not budging from it because I don't have a reason to budge from it.

All i ever hear is just justifications and more excuses for dubas. it is never his fault apparently.

just one more season. Either leafs win the cup or dubas is gone. its a win-win scenario as far as I am concerned.

 

[francis246]

Foresight is a thing. He tried to do something that no one in the league had done. I don't buy this global pandemic narrative. Dubas tried to do something completely different than what was done in the league.

On top of it he ruined one season feuding with his coach, goalie drama, other stupid BS.

I am not buying what you are selling

You don’t have to buy it, we are literally seeing it in front of our eyes. The cap has not moved because of the pandemic. This has been verified by NHL media, by NHL GMs and NHL owners. Owners won’t raise the cap until they’ve paid off the debt they got from the pandemic. What more proof do you need. The cap 100% was affected by the pandemic. You’re love/obsession for seeing red against Dubas and trying to paint him as a villain is pretty weird. Now you’re just completely disregarding reality.

 

[Mr_Fun]

Is there a flu bug going around in the dressing room? I thought I read somewhere today that the flu was going around> I know JT has slowed a bit, but he looked like he was doing an impression of Yertle The Turtle out there in OT. I don't believe he's slowed THAT much since the last game he played. I'm thinking he and a few others must have flu symptoms? If that's not the flu, then he's pretty much cooked.

 

[Gabriel426]

Foresight is a thing. He tried to do something that no one in the league had done. I don't buy this global pandemic narrative. Dubas tried to do something completely different than what was done in the league.

On top of it he ruined one season feuding with his coach, goalie drama, other stupid BS.

I am not buying what you are selling

I think Dubas tried to look at building a roster differently with non traditional methods hoping to find undervalue players. From drafting small skill players over big physical players, to focusing on skills over physical attributes….
Problem is that he is not wrong but he just can’t execute his ideas or versions.
Just look at TB, Point and Cirelli are not your traditional Cs and they are 2nd or 3rd round picks, if Robertson, Hironven, and SAR or SRA can turn into Point or Cirelli, that will go a long way for Dubas.

 

[francis246]

I really don't have the energy to discuss dubas. I've discussed it to death. i have my views and I am not budging from it because I don't have a reason to budge from it.

All i ever hear is just justifications and more excuses for dubas. it is never his fault apparently.

just one more season. Either leafs win the cup or dubas is gone. its a win-win scenario as far as I am concerned.

I don’t care what you think of Dubas. It doesn’t bother me one way or another. I’m not defending him.

All I’m saying is you keep saying things that are happening right in front of us, aren’t happening. The pandemic isn’t an excuse, it’s just a reality of the situation.

 

[PromisedLand]

I think we resign them both personally and then just wait out Tavares’ contract but yeah your #2 point is tough.

The year to trade a first rounder was the year he did with the all Canadian division and we blew it. I don’t feel like we should be doing that this year, our team is gutless and what are the odds of them beating Boston tampa and then probably Carolina just to get to the finals?

Never seen a less intimidating team, even competitive wise. When teams enter our zone on a rush or when teams cycle in our end or when teams stand infront of our net there is 0 punishment handed out. There is 0 threat, 0 intimidation. I loved playing against teams that played soft I could do whatever I want (hence why josh Anderson plays like super man against us).

Can anyone name more than 7/8 current leaf players you would consider highly competitive or physical?

Ideally we do re-sign them both; if we do I am not sure what the cap would even look like with the new contracts. Then marner is up after that.

This season I do agree with you; I am kind of leaning that way b/c the way I see it is that we are expecting:

• Murray or Samsonov to provide playoff goaltending (coin flip)
• Our defense is:
  • Rielly, Holl, Sandin/Lily (youngsters), Gio (39 yrs old), Brodie
    • don't think that will h old up in the playoffs for a long stretch
• Depth scoring
  • IMO non existent for playoff style hockey
    • Last season Kampf got on the board, not sure if that should be expected again
    • Kerfoot 3.5 AAV on the 4th line who isn't productive is also an issue for me
• Core 4
  • Clutch games they don't seem to show up; so not a lot of faith there either

I'd actually keep my high end assets too. If only we had more clarity on matthews/nylander contract situations it would have been easy to make plans. That is why, 8 yr deals would have been good for all 3 amigos but of course... lol

I don’t care what you think of Dubas. It doesn’t bother me one way or another. I’m not defending him.

All I’m saying is you keep saying things that are happening right in front of us, aren’t happening. The pandemic isn’t an excuse, it’s just a reality of the situation.

for someone that doesnt care about what I think about dubas you seem to really put a lot of effort in quoting my posts there buddy.

Even before the pandemic the AAV and term given both to Matthews, and Marner was contentious among many fans including me. And this waas before pandemic b/c we saw the shit storm coming.

Like I said I am done discussing dubas with you. Cheers

 

[PromisedLand]

I think Dubas tried to look at building a roster differently with non traditional methods hoping to find undervalue players. From drafting small skill players over big physical players, to focusing on skills over physical attributes….
Problem is that he is not wrong but he just can’t execute his ideas or versions.
Just look at TB, Point and Cirelli are not your traditional Cs and they are 2nd or 3rd round picks, if Robertson, Hironven, and SAR or SRA can turn into Point or Cirelli, that will go a long way for Dubas.

I think dubas' approach was not right. Tampa example has to be used with context.

Point, Cirelli, for example are gritty players and go to tough areas, lay body and are not afraid to rough it up. This became more prominent after they got embarassed by CBJ.

just find coopers' interview and players' interview after the CBJ sweep. And then find the interviews after they won their first cup where they talked about how the entire franchise decided as to how they will approach hockey. They completely changed the way they played hockey. All of this came from players, coaches and management.

I am too tired to dig up videos but if you go to YouTube you will see them

 

[Chief Leaf]

Well I've been learnt.

January doesn't matter

Trying to catch the division first place team doesn't matter

Losing against a team who lost their best scorer and is a bottom dweller and a huge rival doesn't matter


This january jolly thinking Obviously means we do not need to participate in any trades this deadline...because it doesn't matter....we are waiting for the playoffs.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I want them to win in the playoffs too but I don’t think you can turn it off and on at will. They need to have a winning mentality and they don’t seem to have that. I’m not even totally blaming the players. Management’s idea to dump 50% of the cap on 4 forwards is flawed and we are seeing it unfold yet again

The Leafs are 4th in points percentage. If Boston is your standard for a really good team, the league has 31 flawed teams.