Post-Game Talk: Leafs Lose 3-1 To VGK

[Darcy Tucker]

The culture change and less prima Donna whining should be obvious after the west coast swing. It's nice to watch games where winning matters not office pool glory.

 

[killer1980]

The Boy Genius designed this team to win 7-5 not 2-1. They are supposed to outskate and outscore the opposition. Matthews is coasting this year, all from the outside. Last year, he scored most of his goals with his wrist shot from the top of the circle. This year he has been taking ridiculous slappers from the blue line. He is, clearly, protecting himself so next year he can push hard for those big U.S. bucks. Marner just sucks! The number 1 line, Tavares et al, has the only guys good enough to compete and still don't see Nylander wanting to get his hands dirty. This was expected when you let a kid with no real hockey knowledge assemble a team. On paper, they look good. On the ice they are just plain terrible. All those of you who predicted them missing the playoffs this year raise your hands.

 

[BallardEra]

Worst thing is that the schedule has been pretty easy so far. I don't view the Caps, Jets or Knights as anything special this season.

 

[1specter]

A bit of cherry picking I admit......but I heard the other day that the Leafs only got 3 points out of a possible 20 against Montreal, Buffalo, and Arizona in the 2022 calendar year so far. That's the 24th, 31st and 32nd place teams from the 21-22 season.

I get there are upsets in sport, but they are usually the exception, not the rule.

Yes, they were dogshit against those teams last season. I believe they went 0-4 or 1-4 against Buffalo or something stupid like that, 2-2 against Montreal and were swept by Arizona. Also 0-2 against Vancouver.

They had a better combined record against Boston, Carolina, Tampa and Florida...

 

[supermann_98]

Watched the Raptors game and then Switched channels to the Leafs game right after it ended.

The difference in effort levels, execution, and player engagement is staggering, absolutely night and day.

The Raptors were missing the leagues rookie of the year from last year, had some players struggling to hit their shots, but they grinded out a tough road win over a good team after spending a few days in Miami.

These Leafs are who we all thought they are, no changes to the core, no changes to the lack of effort to start the game (and every period thereafter). It’s shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic basically expecting that to prevent it from sinking again.

 

[BackPassChampions]

People seem to be complaining a lot about the core he inherited right now, and they don't seem to be too upset with the JT signing.

I've seen Matthews, Marner, and Rielly all brought up a lot.

Not quite sure what you mean. Is this a reference to something in my post?

I’m referring to the teams supporting cast. Compared to what we had before, to now, it’s just not good enough. Our core needs talent around them. It’s a team game and it can’t always weigh on the top guys. Our supporting cast compared to what we had before is just uninspiring.

 

[notbias]

It really has nothing to do with his shooting .. next game he might score 4 goals out of 4 shots and team could still lose 5-4 .. bottom line it is not his scoring which is da problem it is his skating .. once he gets back in game shape and tilts ice we will be fine again

The ice is already tilted in their favour... a lot. They can't score, they are getting chances.

Matthews - career 16.1%, season 3%, difference -13.1
Bunting - career 15.4%, season 12.5%, difference -2.9
Marner - career 12.1%, season 7.7%, difference -4.4

The lines xGF is 60%

Not quite sure what you mean. Is this a reference to something in my post?

I’m referring to the teams supporting cast. Compared to what we had before, to now, it’s just not good enough. Our core needs talent around them. It’s a team game and it can’t always weigh on the top guys. Our supporting cast compared to what we had before is just uninspiring.

The supporting cast is not much different than last year, so not sure what you're saying.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Yes, they were dogshit against those teams last season. I believe they went 0-4 or 1-4 against Buffalo or something stupid like that, 2-2 against Montreal and were swept by Arizona. Also 0-2 against Vancouver.

They had a better combined record against Boston, Carolina, Tampa and Florida...

Wouldn't that point to a coaching problem? That's coming from someone who doesn't know much about coaching, so I wouldn't know myself.

 

[BallardEra]

3 very winnable games coming up next:

Sharks
Kings
Ducks

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

The ice is already tilted in their favour... a lot. They can't score, they are getting chances.

Matthews - career 16.1%, season 3%, difference -13.1
Bunting - career 15.4%, season 12.5%, difference -2.9
Marner - career 12.1%, season 7.7%, difference -4.4

The lines xGF is 60%



The supporting cast is not much different than last year, so not sure what you're saying.

Yeah, they're not the problem. Take a look at the xGF% numbers for the bottom 6.

 

[BackPassChampions]

The ice is already tilted in their favour... a lot. They can't score, they are getting chances.

Matthews - career 16.1%, season 3%, difference -13.1
Bunting - career 15.4%, season 12.5%, difference -2.9
Marner - career 12.1%, season 7.7%, difference -4.4

The lines xGF is 60%



The supporting cast is not much different than last year, so not sure what you're saying.

I’m not talking about just last year. I mentioned in my post this is in reference to 2016-2017.

 

[notbias]

I’m not talking about just last year. I mentioned in my post this is in reference to 2016-2017.

Sure, when half our team was on ELC, yes, the team had more depth when our best players were on ELCs, but that doesn't need to be said.

 

[leafsfan5]

It wasn't barely. We were clearly better. We couldn't hit the broad side of the barn (or were heat seeking their shin pads), but we were clearly better.

But as Keefe said, our elite players didn't play like elite players... And even ARI has enough to win a game when an entire top line which plays a third of the game does absolutely nothing positive.

And right now, that is a regular occurrence. The fact that we still somehow have a winning record despite that happening all 7 games so far this year is a testament to the team on the whole, because we are winning in spite of guys like Marner and Matthews right now.

And yes, if Matthews and Marner play like this in the playoffs, we are not winning a series. There is nothing Keefe, Dubas, or any other player on this team can really do about it. Our best players are not our best players right now, and there are far too many stretches where they downright suck too.

The expected goals were 3.3 for Arizona and 3.26 for Toronto. It was close, I don't know how someone can say we were by far and away the better team in that game.

And while I agree it's nice we're winning with Matthews/Marner struggling, our schedule hasn't been very strong. At most, I consider VGK a higher end team out of the first 7 games we've played. It's not a huge accomplishment to be 4-3, we need to be racking up points here to get the 1-seed.

 

[leafsfan5]

Yeah, they're not the problem. Take a look at the xGF% numbers for the bottom 6.

That bottom 6 is so vanilla, there's no bite or element we really needed in there

No functional toughness, no depth scorers. Just primarily defensive players who can cycle in the offensive zone and kill time.

Ideally you try Malgin and see if he can spark something for the scoring. Maybe we wait for Knies to come up and add those 2 elements. Or we can go down the trade route

 

[Nineteen67]

These guys need to wake the f*** up and understand that it's not gonna be a cakewalk, especially this year. Last season Ottawa, Montreal, Detroit and Buffalo were fairly bad teams.... Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit have definitely improved and even Montreal is off to a better start than expected (though I don't think it's sustainable). The Bruins are also playing really well under their new coach and with their #2C back in Krejci.

This division is a bloodbath, they can't piss away points from not giving effort, it's not acceptable.

Florida might be better than I thought with Maurice

 

[BackPassChampions]

Sure, when half our team was on ELC, yes, the team had more depth when our best players were on ELCs, but that doesn't need to be said.

Regardless, all of that factors into where we are now. I’m glad you’re emphasizing my first point. Many teams have ELC’s. It’s no excuse.

 

[Nineteen67]

As I've said in the trade thread.. I see two main problems. (Matty's issue will fix itself).

1. Muzzin was our shutdown D pair... He made Holl look like a passable second liner, and NHLer... without Muzzin, Holl isn't the former, and not sure he's the latter.

2. Brodie doesn't seem capable of babysitting Rielly anymore. Morgan has never been good defensively, might have actually gotten worse. I don't know if that's a Brodie problem, or Morgan problem.

I'm not even sure how this gets fixed if Muzzin is done. It would be an extremely tough, and unpopular move, but I feel like Mo and Holl should go, bring in Chych to replace Mo and then a Murphy/Mayfield for a new shutdown pairing...

Brodie got beat a few times last night. He’s a really good but is he a #1 like he has to be with this team.

 

[notbias]

Regardless, all of that factors into where we are now. I’m glad you’re emphasizing my first point. Many teams have ELC’s. It’s no excuse.

We have a bunch that can play, just better options.

Knies will likely be ELC #2 at the end of the season.

Holmberg can play, and Steeves likely could too.

Having ELCs the caliber of some teams will require us to gut our team and tank again.

 

[Nineteen67]

Small sample size but watching him last night got me thinking we should see if he is interested in resigning now for a reasonable number and term.

Why? I doubt Dubas can sign any contracts, rn

 

[leafsfan5]

That bottom 6 is so vanilla, there's no bite or element we really needed in there

No functional toughness, no depth scorers. Just primarily defensive players who can cycle in the offensive zone and kill time.

Ideally you try Malgin and see if he can spark something for the scoring. Maybe we wait for Knies to come up and add those 2 elements. Or we can go down the trade route

Just to add to this, our third line makes a combined 7.85 million this year

For reference, Tampa's third line last year for game 1 vs us was:

Killorn- Paul - Colton

That line made a total of 6.324 million

At this point it isn't even the cap allocation hampering the depth, it's the pieces we pick for the bottom 6

 

[The Podium]

Just to add to this, our third line makes a combined 7.85 million this year

For reference, Tampa's third line last year for game 1 vs us was:

Killorn- Paul - Colton

That line made a total of 6.324 million

At this point it isn't even the cap allocation hampering the depth, it's the pieces we pick for the bottom 6

They spent less on their entire bottom 6, cap allocation difference was in goal

 

[mcleex]

Did Tavares ever talk about what happened to him? Why did he collapse on the ice like that

 

[fahad203]

The overall team looks like it has regressed this year.

We used to be fast, play with some more sand paper, we had a bright future to continue to get better. We looked dangerous.

Compared to all the more skilled talent we used to have throughout the line up in 2016-2017, it’s pathetic how Dubas gutted this team.

We seriously lack depth. That 3rd line is soft as butter and on top of that there are no finishing skills what so ever

Jason Spezza was slow as snail, but you can always count on him to make plays and contribute. Losing Mikayev as well is hurting us.

We used to be known for our speed. But we don't have that anymore
We used to known for scoring goals, we don't have that anymore

We have essentially become a very average team

Did Tavares ever talk about what happened to him? Why did he collapse on the ice like that

I missed the 3rd period. What happened?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

The ice is already tilted in their favour... a lot. They can't score, they are getting chances.

Matthews - career 16.1%, season 3%, difference -13.1
Bunting - career 15.4%, season 12.5%, difference -2.9
Marner - career 12.1%, season 7.7%, difference -4.4

The lines xGF is 60%



The supporting cast is not much different than last year, so not sure what you're saying.

I have no idear what you just wrote at all it is like you wrote in mandarin to me .. it is completely useless to hockey guys .. but I do realize some of you are stats people who are pioneering analytics with Dubie .. in another 20+years I am sure hockey analytics will develop and it will be tied to hockey skills in a meaningful way where hockey people can understand it and make meaningful on ice changes .. but bottom line until Matty and JT start to control da game this team will continue to struggle .. Matty can't be gassed going back hard into his own end to play defense and then has NO gas to turn around for his offensive foray on his 30 second shift

 

[leafsfan5]

They spent less on their entire bottom 6, cap allocation difference was in goal

Yup, and ironically their bottom 6 outscored ours. A close series decided by Nick Paul's heroics

Matthews/Marner will turn it around eventually, everyone knows that. The problem is the bottom 6 isn't that good and I don't see this changing without us making some moves. Additionally, the team still shows they like to take games off and vary effort level based on the opponent.

We'll go on our 9-1 run once Matthews/Marner catch fire and everything will be great during then. But these underlying issues will remain and get exposed come playoff time, imo